I recently picked up a couple of 44HE guns, and thought I would share this one with you.
I find this gun VERY interesting for a number of reasons. The first is that it is chambered in 44WCF and marked that way on the barrel. Other guns of this model I have seen barrel marked as 44-40 CTG. It appears S&W did the same kind of caliber marking change with the 2nd model as done with the Triplelock, which first used a 44 S&W CTG barrel mark for a time, then switching to the 44 S&W Special CTG mark.
In studying the number of 44HE 1st and 2nd models built in 44-40 caliber, from the Std Catalog 4th edition, we are told that 565 2nd models were made in 44-40. The number of first models is not given, but what IS told is that of the 15,375 Triplelocks built, 13,753 were 44spl, 23 were 45Colt and 1226 were 450Eley. That leaves us with 373 units unaccounted for that were built in other calibers listed of 44-40, 44S&W Russian, 455MarkII, 22LR and 38-40. So, at the MOST, there were 565 + 373 = 938 units that were built in 44-40 caliber between the two models, but probably much less. As a percentage of production, this caliber would have accounted for only 3% of production, at the MOST.
Another interesting piece about this gun is the very early serial number. We have seen 2nd model 44HE's posted that have serial numbers that overlap those of the first model, but I've not seen this early of a serial number on one in 44-40. I have asked Roy if it is known at what serial number the first 2nd model was made in 44-40. I'm thinking this gun must be one of the first (maybe THE first?) since it's numbered before the normal serial range associated with 2nd models.
I hope this post isn't too nerdy....this stuff just seems very interesting to me.
The gun itself is obviously well used. Grips have no marking on the back, but I would not be surprised if they are original. Serial number is also present on cylinder face, ejector star and on barrel under ejector rod. Some pitting, but mostly the finish is now a green/brown patina.
I would love to hear your comments on this gun, and see pictures of your 44HE's 1st or 2nd models in 44-40 if you have them!

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A Future and A Hope.

That is really cool. It would be very interesting to find out where it was originally shipped. Like Gene Autry sang, "riding the range once more, totin' my old 44."

Yeah, I can suit-up for this game.

I posted mine almost three years ago at this thread, where you can find a good deal of discussion and information: .44 HE 2nd Model - .44-40 - #30182 - 5"

I'll post a few photos. Many more are at the link above.









Mine was shipped from the factory on Feb. 28, 1940.

Curly

You sure don't see many in that caliber. IIRC, there is at least one Triple Lock in 44-40 which resides with a forum member.

Really a neat gun, and one that could easily be paired with a lever gun of that same era.

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On the Oak Savannah

Summersteel... as Paul Harvey used to comment, "from the for what it's worth department" (unless others have been documented in more recent times):

That I'm aware of, only one .38-40 Triple Lock has ever surfaced, a factory refinished zero-serial number 'Club Gun' with a 6.5" barrel and fixed sights that was, according to the CG records, "built for Mr. Wesson". This gun is still in a SWCA member's collection.

There are known .44-40 Triple Locks, but only a very small few, one of which is a lettered 6.5" target model that I turned up in 2004, kept a while and sold to Ray Cheely. It's also in the same collection as the .38-40 noted above.

The bulk of the Triple Lock caliber v. unit-number difference you referred to above would in all likelihood be .455 Mark I / Mark II, .455 Eley, etc.. units. According to info supplied by Roy long ago (in either the Journal or on one of his Forum posts), regardless how the barrels were roll-marked, ALL .455's were chambered for .455 Colt to achieve a one-size-fits all chambering. As most .455 S&W's went to England and Canada these 'meshed well' with the .455 Colt New Service's already then long in use in the British Empire.

I didn't have time to check SCSW-4 before posting this. Does it actually say 1200+ were produced in .450, rather than .455 ?? I don't know anyone who has ever seen or heard of a Triple Lock, or for that matter, a 2nd Model that accepts only the .450 cartridge and letters as chambered in .450, as by the time S&W entered the .445 market in 1912-1913, the older .450 was hardly in use.

So much for my early morning recall and subsequent thoughts...
David

I can't help with the number of 44-40 2nd Models that were made. #15,375 is the highest or last # used on Triplelocks, doesn't mean that exactly that many were built.


But here's some info regarding triple lock serial #s:

1. It's impossible to reconcile the number of guns by serial #s. For one thing, not all serial numbers were used. As you found with yours, some 2nd Models were numbered in that serial range below #15,375. It's not known how many.

2. Approximately 1300 triple lock serial #s were used for .455 Mk II British Service Revolvers under contract for the British government. This does not include other .455 Eley/455 Mk IIs sold commercially before and during the British service revolver contract.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I appreciate the responses.
Yes, I know it's not really possible to get an EXACT number of really any specific caliber for either first models or second model 44HE's. I've even read here on the forum that there is some doubt about the specific number of 44HE 2nd models in 44-40 as published in the Std Catalog as being much too high.
I guess my point in this whole exercise was to try to determine a BEST guess as to how many guns in 44-40 might have been made with the data given. But if that data is in doubt, then it is just a big guessing game.
One thing we DO know, is that we just don't see very many of these guns in this particular caliber as 44HE 1st and 2nd models.
Perhaps someday, more information will be found that will allow us to see this more clearly.

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A Future and A Hope.

This one of yours is the fourth I’ve seen on the forum. Very cool gun. There are excellent discussions in Capt Curls thread and in a thread I posted about 4 years ago about the rarity of these guns. I would post the link but am sadly low-tech. Congrats. Dave

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Illegitimi non carborundum

I have one TL in 44/40 ,# 7436. It's a std. sight, 6 1/2" blue that was special ordered Dec.1913, right out of a large order of military guns due to go to Europe. Check 0ut Neal&Jinks book. The gun has no barrel markings, except on top of the barrel, and is not the usual bright blue, which I am told happened during the war production. I'm told that only a hand full of 44/40 TL's exist.

I also had a second model 44HE in 44/40 cal. It was also a std. sight model w/ 6 1/2" barrel Sn.33703. I sold that gun to one of our members couple years ago. I guess that adds two more to the count. Sorry I can't seem to get pics to go!

Richard

I hope you can figure out how to post pics, cuz I’d love to see those two of yours!

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A Future and A Hope.

Cool gun that definitely seems to fall into the "rare" category.

A question and letter request to Roy/Don seem in order if you haven't already done so, especially regarding the 565 vs. 15-20 production number estimate CptCurl mentioned.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Cool gun that definitely seems to fall into the "rare" category.

A question and letter request to Roy/Don seem in order if you haven't already done so, especially regarding the 565 vs. 15-20 production number estimate CptCurl mentioned.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I received a letter for this gun today. I think it may contain some previously unknown info about 2nd models in this caliber. There's a couple of typos, and I am trying confirm the name of who it shipped to is correct with Roy. Wondering what checkered walnut non-mono grips are? I think this is an interesting letter...What say YOU?

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A Future and A Hope.

Possibly grips without medallions? Though, this was the era of gold medallion grips.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

For anyone owning one of these 44-40 (44 WCF) 1st or 2nd Models, it would be very interesting to know the cylinder throat and barrel groove measurements.
In those pre-SAAMI days, there is often a discrepancy between nominal and actual measurements.
Often, manufacturers who made significantly larger numbers of similar chamberings would simply use their existing tooling when fabricating relevant components (cylinders and barrels in this case.).
In other words, I wonder if S&W simply used 44 Special barrels (~.432") with a 44 WCF rollmark, or if they were more along the lines dimension-wise with barrels made by Colt or Winchester for that chambering (~.427"). (Same for cylinder throats..)

Non monogram, meaning no medallions.

As Muley Gil posted, gold medallion grips were still used when your gun shipped in 1917 thru part of 1920. So the first thing I’d suggest is to check the back of the right side grip panel for a penciled serial # that matches your gun’s serial #. If it doesn’t match, the grips are not original to the gun and have been switched.

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Jim
S&WCA #819