Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961
o

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-31-2022, 07:56 PM
Scooter1942 Scooter1942 is offline
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
Liked 55 Times in 9 Posts
Default ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?

My fiancé sent me pics of a revolver she purchased from an extensive collection while traveling out of state, that will be transferred home next week. It is a gorgeous engraved piece. K frame, 38 special, 4” barrel, adjustable postwar sights, 5 screw, grooved trigger and front strap. Serial number is K938XX. I think it’s a pre-15 Combat Masterpiece but not sure and not sure of production dates…given the 5 screw, 5 digit serial and Victory Model grips, I think it is pretty early. Can anyone pin it down for me?




Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-31-2022, 08:02 PM
murphydog's Avatar
murphydog murphydog is offline
Moderator
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,782
Likes: 936
Liked 18,873 Times in 9,241 Posts
Default

Yes, a .38 Combat Masterpiece. The serial number puts it as being produced in 1950. Our engraving experts will want to see close-ups once you have it.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 07-31-2022, 08:05 PM
Zarr's Avatar
Zarr Zarr is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Western Massachusetts
Posts: 680
Likes: 8,607
Liked 547 Times in 264 Posts
Default

That is beautiful! SCS&W 4th ed. puts it at 1950. Someone with more knowledge will be along shortly to give you more info. Congrats!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 07-31-2022, 08:16 PM
bigmtnman's Avatar
bigmtnman bigmtnman is offline
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Colorado USA
Posts: 2,347
Likes: 5,903
Liked 8,831 Times in 1,699 Posts
Default

I'm thinking it's a bit unusual to see a "magna" stock era gun with engraved coverage for service type stocks. Some "ivory" service stocks would really look good there !
__________________
Y. B. Ord & A. Ree
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 07-31-2022, 10:11 PM
murphydog's Avatar
murphydog murphydog is offline
Moderator
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,782
Likes: 936
Liked 18,873 Times in 9,241 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmtnman View Post
I'm thinking it's a bit unusual to see a "magna" stock era gun with engraved coverage for service type stocks. Some "ivory" service stocks would really look good there !
I thought that also. Perhaps a post-war European (German?) engraving job with Victory Model stocks, which would have been common overseas at that time.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-31-2022, 10:19 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is online now
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,480
Likes: 236
Liked 28,941 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

The hammer is not the fish hook style, may have been replaced.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 07-31-2022, 10:29 PM
Thinnes Thinnes is offline
SWCA Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 450
Likes: 9,950
Liked 1,718 Times in 247 Posts
Default

Really nice gun! I like it. Ivories or pearls would really pop with the gun. Dave
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-31-2022, 11:10 PM
JP@AK's Avatar
JP@AK JP@AK is offline
US Veteran
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,478
Likes: 5,112
Liked 18,983 Times in 6,863 Posts
Default

Scooter1942

K92334 shipped in October, 1950
K95402 shipped in November, 1950

Hence, a 1950 date for your fiance's revolver to have been shipped is a reasonable guess.

DWalt wrote:
Quote:
The hammer is not the fish hook style, may have been replaced.
True, but the target hammer became available in 1950, so this one could have been ordered that way.

It is very odd to see Victory stocks on a .38 Combat Masterpiece. But apparently someone liked it that way.
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 08-01-2022, 01:22 AM
RKmesa's Avatar
RKmesa RKmesa is online now
SWCA Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 7,354
Likes: 27,584
Liked 45,315 Times in 4,759 Posts
Default

I believe the engraver is Orville Kuhl of San Francisco. I have a couple of Kuhl engraved guns.

... K-22 Outdoorsman:





... and a prewar 38 M&P







If you ever tire of that CM, please let me know.

Congrats and thanks for sharing,
__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Last edited by RKmesa; 08-01-2022 at 01:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2022, 01:31 AM
RKmesa's Avatar
RKmesa RKmesa is online now
SWCA Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 7,354
Likes: 27,584
Liked 45,315 Times in 4,759 Posts
Default

Here is are a few photos of a 357 Magnum engraved by Kuhl in a very similar pattern (source: GunBroker).

ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-kuhl-engraved-pre-27-s124391-r-jpg

ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-kuhl-engraved-pre-27-s124391-l-jpg

ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-kuhl-engraved-pre-27-s124391-l-detail-jpg

ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-kuhl-engraved-pre-27-s124391-r-detail-jpg

Congrats once again.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Kuhl Engraved Pre-27 S124391 R.jpg (154.1 KB, 403 views)
File Type: jpg Kuhl Engraved Pre-27 S124391 L.jpg (145.7 KB, 403 views)
File Type: jpg Kuhl Engraved Pre-27 S124391 L Detail.jpg (159.0 KB, 405 views)
File Type: jpg Kuhl Engraved Pre-27 S124391 R Detail.jpg (160.4 KB, 405 views)
__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Last edited by RKmesa; 08-01-2022 at 01:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-01-2022, 07:01 AM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

It is truly a pleasure to see the ongoing high level of collaboration on so many fronts, here including potential provenance and artistic similarities among revolver specimens.

Thanks for the information and education!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 08-01-2022, 08:09 AM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is online now
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,480
Likes: 236
Liked 28,941 Times in 14,012 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK View Post
Scooter1942

K92334 shipped in October, 1950
K95402 shipped in November, 1950

Hence, a 1950 date for your fiance's revolver to have been shipped is a reasonable guess.

DWalt wrote:


True, but the target hammer became available in 1950, so this one could have been ordered that way.

It is very odd to see Victory stocks on a .38 Combat Masterpiece. But apparently someone liked it that way.
The so-called fish hook hammer design was the factory standard from the late 1940s through the mid-1950s. The wide spur Target (or semi-Target) hammer appeared early in the 1950s as an available factory option, so it is certainly possible that the target hammer was original. It is equally possible that that the target hammer could have been a replacement done by a previous owner, as it is a trivial job to swap out a hammer. But it would impossible to know which. Most of the earlier period K-series revolvers I have seen had the fish hook hammer.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-01-2022, 09:44 AM
glowe's Avatar
glowe glowe is offline
US Veteran

ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan Western UP
Posts: 12,916
Likes: 3,028
Liked 14,257 Times in 5,434 Posts
Default

Here is one made in 1950 and shipped in January 1951. It has a standard hammer.. I believe both hammers were available when mine and the OP's gun was built. Target stocks and hammers were originally offered at additional cost.

Here are notes from my reference material:

Combat Masterpiece introduced in October 1949.
1st .38 Combat Masterpiece shipped 10/3/49.
Target Hammer and Stocks introduced in January 1950 for the Masterpiece line.

One note referenced an early shipment of Target Hammers, but I do not have any documentation of its accuracy: 1st K-38 Heavy Barrel masterpiece, K66198, with target hammer, reached shipping room on 2/9/49.

ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-p1010005-jpg
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-p1010006-jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010005.jpg (97.4 KB, 342 views)
File Type: jpg P1010006.jpg (98.6 KB, 339 views)
__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-01-2022, 10:22 AM
handejector's Avatar
handejector handejector is offline
Administrator
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,010
Likes: 7,103
Liked 48,562 Times in 9,216 Posts
Default

It is a safe bet that Orville did the engraving.
It is possible that the Target hammer is original. Most people that add them later also added the Target trigger. I have seen many early Masterpieces that shipped with the Target hammer before the Target triggers became available.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-01-2022, 11:57 AM
Scooter1942 Scooter1942 is offline
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
Liked 55 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Any sense of value in this?

She bought it because “it was pretty”.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-01-2022, 04:49 PM
Scooter1942 Scooter1942 is offline
Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 24
Likes: 2
Liked 55 Times in 9 Posts
Default

I was able to get an additional picture from the store. It sure if engraved name, owner name, collection number or abbreviated social security number. Adds to the mystery!



…can’t get image to post. Under the trigger guard is engraved the following: A.C. Murphy 378-59-45

Last edited by Scooter1942; 08-01-2022 at 04:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-01-2022, 04:58 PM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is offline
SWCA Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AL Wiregrass
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 34,555
Liked 10,739 Times in 3,659 Posts
Default

Video Tutorials on Posting Pictures
__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Last edited by handejector; 08-04-2022 at 10:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 08-02-2022, 05:14 PM
handejector's Avatar
handejector handejector is offline
Administrator
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,010
Likes: 7,103
Liked 48,562 Times in 9,216 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter1942 View Post
I was able to get an additional picture from the store. It sure if engraved name, owner name, collection number or abbreviated social security number. Adds to the mystery!



…can’t get image to post. Under the trigger guard is engraved the following: A.C. Murphy 378-59-45

Here ya go-


ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?-5il3ld4-jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5Il3LD4.jpg (41.4 KB, 215 views)
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-03-2022, 02:25 PM
Seaburry Seaburry is offline
SWCA Member
ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece? ID Help: Early Combat Masterpiece?  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 125
Likes: 816
Liked 267 Times in 48 Posts
Default

Very very cool…wk

Last edited by Seaburry; 08-03-2022 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Didn’t mean to advertise my name
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-05-2022, 08:45 PM
Bill Bates's Avatar
Bill Bates Bill Bates is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 4,545
Liked 7,558 Times in 1,441 Posts
Default

I'll give another vote to Orville Kuhl as the engraver. His borders and flowers are pretty distinctive. He did engraving work for King Gun Sight Co

For a number of years I had a Parker Shotgun he engraved. It has now found a new home.

__________________
Bill Bates
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: early 38 Special Combat Masterpiece. Thomas M. Black WANTED to Buy 0 08-20-2021 12:39 PM
early Combat Masterpiece borderbud S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 6 12-24-2017 12:32 PM
Early K-22 Combat Masterpiece sights DesmoEd S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 9 10-20-2017 12:41 PM
A very early K22 Combat Masterpiece petehm S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 18 12-20-2014 08:21 PM
Early Combat Masterpiece JP@AK S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 14 02-20-2013 09:22 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:39 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)