Can someone help date my oldest Smith?

OIF0304 · #1 08-05-2022, 10:35 PM

Bought this back in December, definitely not in great shape but a nice shooter for me. I was talking to my dad on the phone as he walked into his local gunshop (2 states away), and I just casually asked "Do they have any used S&W's?"...he said yes, one for $500 and one for $250...which of course piqued my attention! Needless to say, it was shipped a few days later to my LGS, but I haven't been able to ascertain its age. Thanks in advance for any help!

DARE · #2 08-05-2022, 11:09 PM

Is your gun a .38 Special?
If so, I think it is a .38 M&P.
The collectors call it a Model of 1905, 4th Change.
SN range 241,704 to 1,000,000. Made from 1915 to 1942.
My guess is that your gun was probably built in 30's
Some folks will be along shortly that can get closer on the date.

OIF0304 · #3 08-05-2022, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JADARE

Is your gun a .38 Special?
If so, I think it is a .38 M&P.
The collectors call it a Model of 1905, 4th Change.
SN range 241,704 to 1,000,000. Made from 1915 to 1942.
My guess is that your gun was probably built in 30's
Some folks will be along shortly that can get closer on the date.

Yes sir, its a 38 Special. I wasn't sure if it would be a "pre-10" or "M&P" or what exactly. We were kind of figuring mid-30's but my buddy could never find an exact year...

rct269 · #4 08-05-2022, 11:27 PM

This is a pretty wide spread, but-------------------------

#404219 was shipped September 9, 1922

#594161 was shipped August 23, 1928

And a kissing cousin, #594451 was shipped March 8, 1929

Bottom Line: Your gun came to be in the "roaring 20's"-----somewhere.

Ralph Tremaine

DARE · #5 08-05-2022, 11:35 PM

The "pre-model 10" and the ".38 M&P" are the same gun. The Standard Catalog of S&W 4th Edition, pretty much the bible of S&W calls the guns built 1946-1957 pre-model 10. Model numbers began about 1957.
So most people would call a gun as old as yours a .38 M&P

JP@AK · #6 08-05-2022, 11:51 PM

OIF0304

It looks like your serial number is 535960. If so, it is likely from 1926, give or take a little bit since they were not shipped in serial order. I own 531541 and it letters to February 17, 1926. Pretty close to yours.

At the time, S&W would have called this a .38 Military & Police Square Butt revolver. Several significant and important engineering changes were made to this model before it became the Model 10 in 1958. So serious collectors would not call this a "pre-Model 10."

The stocks shown in your photo are period correct and probably original.

OIF0304 · #7 08-05-2022, 11:59 PM

Thanks all, that puts it right along my Colt pre-Woodsman in age, very cool to me!

54ball · #8 08-06-2022, 03:06 AM

IMG_0120 by Travis Brown, on Flickr

I really do like the 1920s grips or the more proper name, "Service Stocks.
Top to bottom are my 2 Model 10-7s; both made in 1978-1979 wearing 1920s service stocks, and my Nickel Model of 1905 4th Change Military and Police chambered in .32 WCF (32-20) made in 1923.

If you notice, there are three main differences between the Model 10s and the 1905 M&P. I'm sure there are many more but these three are apparent. One of the three is a major issue.

1. Notice the bulbus end of the 1905 Ejector rod.
2. Notice the Model 10s have a ramped front sight whereas the 1905 has a round front sight.
3. This one is the biggie.

The 1923 Model 1905 has a single action hammer. These 1920s 1905s cannot be sighted in double action. To shoot double action, you'll have to point shoot. You can only sight the gun in single action after you cock it.

This was corrected, I believe sometime in the 1930s. Notice the Model 10s have double action hammers. This is one reason why double action point shooting (FBI-Jelly Bryce) was taught throughout the 1970s.
I thought you might find that interesting. You have a very nice revolver...I really like it.

JSR III · #9 08-06-2022, 08:14 AM

Another quick and dirty way of dating some S&W's is by the stocks or I should say the medallions. If the stocks number to the gun then it had to have been made between 1921 and 1929 when S&W stopped putting medallions on the stocks. Prior to 1921 they would be gold medallions and after 1929 they would be silver.

AlHunt · #10 08-06-2022, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ball

3. This one is the biggie. The 1923 Model 1905 has a single action hammer. These 920s 1905s cannot be sighted in double action. To shoot double action, you'll have to point shoot. You can only sight the gun in single action after you cock it.

I guess I'm not caffeinated enough this morning, but this doesn't make sense to me.

It seems to imply that the sights can't be used in DA shooting??

JSR III · #11 08-06-2022, 08:57 AM

Quote:

It seems to imply that the sights can't be used in DA shooting??

If I were to guess, it sounds like the hammer spur is too tall and interferes with lining up the front and rear sights in double action. By cocking the hammer, the spur is lowered and allows using both sights. Remember with service sights, the rear sight is merely a slot in the frame and not raised up out of the way like a target sight.

In a close combat situation you merely point the gun at your opponent and pull the trigger. You would rarely aim per se.