Please forgive me if this is in the wrong place but here goes.

I have a "38 S.&W. special ctg" as follows
4" barrel
5 screw
square butt
hand ejector
fixed sights but with serrated trigger and smooth wood grips with no logo.
Could someone please tell me if the first digit on this pic is a "9" or an "S" ?
It sure looks like a 9 but then that really gets me down a weird rabbit hole of trying to find out manufacture date etc.

See attached pic and thanks so much in advance.

Regards,

Attached Images

Butt SN correct rotation 2 edit.jpg (190.6 KB, 316 views)

Welcome to the forum. It's actually not a dumb question at all. That would be a 9. On pre WWII S&W's, the serial numbers read from the butt end toward the barrel with the barrel pointing toward the right. After WWII, they're just the opposite.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

Ok so that was kind of what I was afraid of searching for when it was roughly made. The backstory is it was my grandfather's then my dad's and now mine my dad served in Korea "not with the pistol but to give you context on how old I am" what I do not get is there is no letter prefix on this revolver. So it's just a 6 digit code that matches on the yoke"I think that's the term". No model number but a couple of weird to me markings above what looks like a part number in it's place it has a very nice bore and very little surface rust. No real pitting but no real bluing left. My guess is it is a run of the mill pistol but means a lot to me so I was thinking of having it restored with a quality bluing and internal parts restoration etc and enjoy it until my kid gets it. But I want to make sure I am not ruining it by doing so.

Thanks again for the response.

From what little we can see, I'm comfortable opining you're ruining whatever value the item may have while vastly improving the appearance of the item with such a restoration. Another consideration is the cost of such work----------which will be considerable------$5-600 at a minimum. I'll suggest the real value of the item is as a family heirloom---just as it is.

As to when it was made, assuming the entire serial number is 5 digits, the first decade of the 20th century seems to be a likely good guess.

Ralph Tremaine

I agree with Ralph. Leave it the way it is without refinishing it. It’s an heirloom and should be in the same condition that your dad and grand dad left it. At the most, I would say have a competent gunsmith check it out and have any worn internal parts replaced to bring it up to a safe shootable level.

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USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

I believe you have a .38 M&P pre-Victory from WWII. If the serial on the butt is 6 digits, it was likely made late 1941 or early 1942. Chances are it was originally a "Black Magic" finish. I see no reason you can't redo the finish with a Parkerized process. It's an easy process that you can do yourself in the back yard for less than $100. Here's a Victory I received with no original finish and Parkerized it myself. It cleaned up nicely, don't you think?

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Welcome to the Forum. What type of stocks are on the gun? You state a 38 Special, not 38 S&W so you are looking at a revolver made before the introduction of the Victory "V" series guns. With the lanyard ring hole it is most likely a US military issued revolver, but many were issued for corporations guard service throughout the US as well.

Charles Pate's book on US Handguns of WWII notes that the first US military purchase was within serial numbers 800,000 to 999,999 and then began the V series. There were some military guns issued without US stamping on them from fall of 1941 to Spring of 1942. I believe that revolver could have shipped in May or June of 1942.

As for finish, he stated that these revolvers were originally issued with bright blue and from Dec 1941 to March 1942, it was changed to sandblast blue. The "Black Magic (parkerized finish) was then started and continued to the end of the war.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Welcome to the S&W Forums! You have come to the right place to ask questions about your S&W revolver. That first character is a "9". As others have stated, it is your revolver to do with as you wish, but a correct restoration will run you at least $500 and with that, the history and originality of this revolver is forever lost.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Leave it as is, the war guns look better when they look like they were in a war!


How about some more pics!!!


One of mine.....

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When words fail, music speaks.

The SN indicates that is a pre-Victory model military revolver (AKA the Military and Police Model) which likely was shipped from S&W sometime in May 1942. That was about the only revolver in production by S&W at that time. It is possible that it could have shipped to the U. S. Navy. As others have said, it is absolutely not a sound idea to have it professionally refinished, as you can buy one already in pretty good cosmetic condition for less than the cost of a professional refinish job. And a refinish would not add anything to its value. Best to leave it as-is.

"The "Black Magic (parkerized finish) was then started and continued to the end of the war."

"Black Magic" was the trademark for a commercial black iron oxide (Fe3O4) metal finish nothing like Parkerizing, which was a phosphate finish. But a very small number of Victories for a very brief period were Parkerized, during roughly the same time period (5/4/42-5/9/42) the OPs revolver could have been made. The Black Magic finish was applied over bead-blasted metal (bead blasting began in 3/42) which resulted in a dull surface.

First, thank you all so much for the responses, this is not the norm of typical forums. I am duly impressed and humbled from it, again thanks!


Here are a few pics as best i could take on my cell. it looks worse in the pics than in person.

As for ruining it i only have done a gun clean on it by cleaning the inside of the barrel and inside of cylinder. then just wiped the outside down with a good gun oil and a soft lint free cloth. NO SCRUBBING with anything at all.

I think i still have a picture of my grandfather with it and his winchester 30-30 (in my safe as well) on a boat he captained for "Zane Grey". An author he ran a boat for for a awhile as well. if I can find it all I will post pics of it. * for reference I believe Zane died in 39 or 40 so i'm not sure what is in the pic I NEED to find it as i know that's him in it but the gun does not seem that old.

I have a very competent gunsmith from Princeton Texas that I know can check out the pistol and replace any old internals that need fixed. As for price of restoring im not really caring the cost so much as much as i want to enjoy this thing and pass it to my kid when im gone. BUT, if the consensus it dont restore it then all it will get is new internals if needed and keep it as is oiled up. I must say the action on it is very nice better than a few of my newer smiths.

Attached Images

	Left side.jpg (158.6 KB, 95 views)
	Open Cylinder.jpg (97.7 KB, 85 views)
	Right side.jpg (144.1 KB, 84 views)

Welcome to the Forum from Pennsylvania!
As you said, "this is not the norm of typical forums".

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NRA Endowment Member

Actually, you could clean up the surface a little more and swab on some cold bluing yourself to make it look a little better. Brownell's "Oxypho" bluing would work well. Fortunately, if you need any replacement parts, they are readily available. I doubt you will need any. Internal cleaning and lubrication would likely be the only "Gunsmithing" required, and you can do that yourself. Youtube is your friend. You can often find replacement lanyard swivels on eBay.

Here is what is on the back strap.

not sure why the edit of the pic went south

Attached Images

Back strap.jpg (63.3 KB, 91 views)

I tend to work on what I know "1911" While Im decent i'm not a qualified GS and I have a GS that i know and trust that is fixing an older colt python my father in law picked up. it needs some help for sure and we are tracking down original grips for it as well. If I was better at it id do it myself but I want to get it done right if thats the route I go but im leaning more to just getting internals worked on and keeping it as is from the sounds of it. I know its not a collectors item and worth a lot but even if i threw 1k into a proper restoration. if done right then its worth it to me from the sentimental value. I hope that makes any sense and sorry for rambling.

Most likely the route I go after talking to all of you. Cheers and thanks so much.

So regarding the “A.O.P. 125” marking in post #15 ... possible defense plant rack number?

Yea I dont know i just saw it and thought it might be of value to post?

So this seems to be a .38 military & police model of 1905, 4th change.

Heat treated Cylinders began at about sn 316648
SN# Range 214704 to 1000000 with over 758k made Produced Circa 1915 - 1942

The AOP I believe is the Arkansas Ordnance Plant with all codes I know of listed of that time WWII ordnance plants except for the Pine Bluff Arsenal and Southwestern Proving Grounds(not sure on that abv)


AKA: Arkansas Ordnance Plant (AOP)
AKA: Maumelle Ordnance Works (MOW)
AKA: Southwestern Proving Ground (SPG)
AKA: Ozark Ordnance Works (OOW)
AKA: Shumaker Naval Ammunition Depot (NAD)

Now to order the S&W paperwork so i can see just how off I am LOL I suspect I am dead wrong on the AOP though.

Could be Allegany Ordnance Plant. Located in Cumberland MD, it manufactured .50 BMG ammunition. Operated by the Kelly Springfield rubber company. Or maybe someplace else.

It would not have been called a Model of 1905 at that time.

I got the model of 1905 from the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson I just bought today. Page 162-163 of 501 pages on kindle. I dunno if they are accurate or not just what i'm seeing from snooping around the interwebs I have no clue whats right on these things so its just my guess. I am sure I am wrong on most of it LOL. but you all have made this the most fun I have had looking at a firearm in a long long time!

S&W terminated use of the Model of 1905 nomenclature in 1914. After that, they called the revolver simply the Military and Police Model, either square butt or round butt. Some collectors continue to use the 1905 terminology to describe the K frame service revolvers made up to WWII. But S&W most certainly did not in their catalogs and advertising. However, the revolver itself changed only a small amount during the 1914 - 1942 period.

Look at me learning something new. Excellent info and greatly appreciate it.