I am curious if anyone has a data base of S&W ACP revolvers, serial numbers and shipped dates? I have information on a couple of dozen but prefer not to reinvent the wheel if such is already in existence.

Kevin

(edited, 21 June, 2023 to include database.)

Okay, let’s see if this will work. Here is a link to what I have, so far.

Across the top are various Models on which I am gathering information. More will be added as needed. In each section, I have included serial number, Model, date shipped and notes.

Serial number is the one on the grip frame.

Model is the one that introduced that variation. So, Model 1917s will include the Military version built in 1917 and 1918, the Commercial version built from 1917 to 1950, and both variations of the Brazilian contract.

The Model 1950 will include the Army and Target versions plus the numbered Models after 1957.

The Model 1955 will be about the Model 1955 and the Model 25-2.

Shipped date, here, I am listing only dates from Roy or on the end labels. The SCS&W lists ranges but does not get into specifics and there are plenty of glitches using those ranges.

Comments will be anything unusual about how it left the factory. Fixed sights on a Model 1917 do not merit a comment, factory adjustable sights certainly would be noteworthy.

I intend for this link to be for viewing only. If you would like to add information, please email me your information. I will not include names, just the information about the revolver. I am getting very busy at work so dropping in to the forum will be less frequent. Checking my email is several times a day.

My email address,

KevinNoonSharpening at gmail dot com

And again, a big “THANK YOU” to my wife who has done all the data entry and layout. Without her help, this would still be in the planning stage. I would still be trying to open the page.

Here is the link to the information.

Dropbox - S&W Serial Numbers.xlsx - Simplify your life

If there are any problems, let me know.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Sounds to me like a worthwhile endeavor. In any case, for your data base, I have two: a Model 1955/25-2 SN N458452 shipped '78(?) and a Brazilian Model 1937/M1917 SN 190588 shipped '38(?).

Hello Strawhat:

As of now, although the SWCA has Databases on 20 different models a separate Database for the .45 ACP chambered Smiths does not exist. I think that the information you have is quite valuable to other collectors so I would encourage you to contact SWCA members Mike Helms or Kevin Williams (they are the Database admins) to see about getting a Database up and running. I am certain that it would be very well received and would prove to be most helpful to other SWCA members and collectors.

If you have any trouble with this, please feel free to contact me directly and I'll do my best to get this up and running with your valuable assistance.

Regards,
Charlie

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I have scraped together some numbers on 625’s for awhile, both ACP’s and Colts.

I've got a couple of .45 revolvers to add to the new data base as well.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thank you all for your encouragement, I think!

I will wrap my head around this and come up with a method for this madness!




Charlie,

I appreciate that you feel the information would be helpful to the SWCA membership and collectors. I am not sure I want to limit access to only those who belong to the SWCA. I will need to ponder that.

So, as I think of things I will post questions. Hope to have this up and running by the end of June.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I have a couple to enter and I think it would be a great resource.

To keep it from being so overwhelming to begin with, you might start with a data base of Model of 1950 and Model of 1955 variants. After that add the 625's variants. IMO most of the Model of 1917s will have similar ship dates unless it was a special shipment post war.

Thank you for your work on this.
Tim Thomas

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SWCA #3463
SWHF #970

"If you build it, he will come!" Lots of .45 ACP revolver fans here on the Forum, as you know. Many of us would be happy to add our acquisitions to your database. Maybe expand your Db to include .45 Colt (?). Good luck!

Excel is your friend when building a database. I have a database on "S" serial prefix N frame guns which has many pre 25s, 25s, and a few 25-2s! You will learn many interesting nuances when building a database on a model!
jcelect

I never used Excel, but I've been very successful with Microsoft Access...I've built a bound book replacement system which was compliant with and approved for use with BATFE...I added layaways and invoicing to it as well...It's fun, but time consuming......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

I have several I can provide info on.

I am hoping you consider creating a database for the 1917s, and hoping others who maintain private databases would consider this approach as well. I find it frustrating that all we have out there are a bunch of members holding a database for this and that model that is not available to anyone else. I found 128 - 1917s in a search of the old Joe Miller database that I could share if you intend to do this project.

Let me add that you can search the SWCA Ship Date request listings where Roy supplies ship dates and come up with all requested serial numbers back to 2009 or so. I just searched using "1917" and came up with over 300 entries.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

This sounds like a great idea, and potentially a huge project.
Since folks are mentioning pre-war .45 Hand Ejectors (ie: 1917s), will this include .455 along with .45 ACP and .45 Colt?
(Worth considering, given those that are still original vs those that have been converted.)

ACP Data Base

I have read all of the comments on this thread and those sent to me by PM. I realize that keeping this workable will be an undertaking. I have personally been collecting dates on Model 1950s, and 1955s, 25-2s. Nothing monumental but a start.

I propose to have these categories initially,

Model 1917 Military

Model 1917 Commercial

Model 1950 Army

Model 1950 Target

Model 1955

Model 22

Model 25 (only ACP dashes)

Model 26

What am I missing?

Now, when we get to the stainless line, I need help. I am familiar with SOME of the stainless ACP revolvers but not all.

I am sure of the Model 625-6 Mountain Gun. What else?

While I originally intended to cover each model separately, it dawned on me that the serial numbers were shared among all the models, I think. (At least up until Model numbers came along?) So, if true, no two revolvers will have duplicate serial numbers. If so, I may just list the sequentially by number and indicate the model in a separate column.

Thoughts?

The information I would seek is Model, serial with alpha prefix, lettered ship date, and outstanding features. A 5.5” barrel is not an outstanding feature on a Model 1917. Adjustable sights might be outstanding on a Model 1917.

Yes, I am trying to keep it simple. Too much information will bog it down in a hurry. Individual posts discussing the features are great but unless documented, I don’t feel bear including.

To those that suggested it, NO, I will not be including 455, 45 long Colt, etc. While worthy of consideration, I intend to keep it purely 45 ACP.

What am I missing?

I hope to have a spread sheet up and going soon. Similar to the one for the 445 Hand Ejectors.

Thank you.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

There are multiple dash numbers of 625’s that are ACP. One of the reasons I started gathering some info about them is because of confusion about this. I didn’t stick to lettered shipping dates, though, often using Julian date codes from boxes seen online. We can talk about this more through pm’s if you want.

Start with the data you have on hand. When using Excel you can add lines between the existing lines, i.e. new models and or variations. After you become familiar with the software, then add new guns and data!
jcelect

I would add the 1937 Brazilian as a group since it was a contract 45acp and the second order consisted of 1917 parts and serial numbers. I have several that also have numbers engraved on the grip frame. Might be an interesting collecting point. Just my thoughts!

The only thing I can add is that you can check to see if the SWCA has a suggested format for their databases? Contact Kevin Williams or Mike Helms at Smith & Wesson Collectors Association – The Collectors Resource for Historic Smith & Wesson Firearms

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The only thing I can add is that you can check to see if the SWCA has a suggested format for their databases? Contact Kevin Williams or Mike Helms at Smith & Wesson Collectors Association – The Collectors Resource for Historic Smith & Wesson Firearms

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The SWCA database is a Column/Line type database. When you send Mike Helms your data base he converts it to the software of the SWCA database. I sent him my database, in Excel, on the Chief's Special Targets and he converted it to his software. He then made me the curator of that database on the SWCA site. When you find an addition, the curator must add that addition to his own database and then add it to the SWCA database.
jcelect

Another category not mentioned is the 1946 issue of Brazilian 1917's. Mostly made from parts found at the factory with many attributes to the early 1917's.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Here is an update. I have been searching through the shipping dates gleaning info on 1917s to add to the 1950 and 1955 information I have. Now, sorting and figuring an intelligent way to present the information.

Please, be patient.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Howdy Kevin,

I applaud your vision and determination. Your desire not to limit access is consistent with the inspiring "sign off" on your posts: "Unshared knowledge is wasted."

Consider this, though. The nominal SWCA membership fee comes with benefits that far exceed the dollar amount. One of those benefits gives those of us willing to share our passion for a particular model a place to do so. It's a repository of amassed knowledge shared with like-minded folk, and it comes with no extra expense.

I'm not a computer guru so I maintain my personal Chiefs Special lists as Word documents.

When I got Kevin Williams and Mike Helms' blessing to curate the Chiefs Special database on the SWCA site I gave Mike the headings I wanted to use and he built the six sub-databases with individual titles and used the headings I provided for the columns. I've populated four of the sub-databases one Chiefs Special at a time -- more than 5,600 entries so far. I fiddle with it nearly daily. (Still trying to figure out how to enter the "roving J series" and alphanumeric series serial numbers so the software will put the numbers in sequential order.)

Using the various categories you listed in your post #14, I could envision your .45 ACP database having separate sub-databases similar to the Chiefs.

I extend my best wishes to you as you decide how to proceed.


ps: I must add this thanks to all the SWCA and S&W Forum members who've provided details of their Chiefs for the databases. I've received details on single Chiefs, and I've received invoices and serial number lists for many multiple orders. Thanks especially to Dr. Roy Jinks for his above-and-beyond support -- he alone has at least quadrupled the quantity of Chiefs in the database.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

For those of us who keep databases on our own and then want to transfer them to a "store bought" database, like the SWCA database, we need to be aware of how most databases place numbers in a column(our serial numbers)! The database looks at the left hand digit first. It starts with the number 1 and places all string of numbers beginning with 1 in numerical order. It then places all the numbers beginning with #2 in numerical order. This continues until the #9 has been entered. Next it will look at the second digit from the left, and then the third digit from the left until all digits have been entered! The largest headache with this system is the software will not recognize the difference between 5 digit numbers and 6 digit numbers. An example is my CST database. The software placed CST serial number 54904(1955) following CST number 452834(1966). This is very connnfuzzing to someone looking for a serial number of a gun! Bob Townsend has partially solved this problem with his database on the Chief's Specials.
Sorry for the long post! I'm open to suggestion! (HELP)
jcelect Joe Cebull SWCA#LM723

I have been jostling numbers and ideas in my mind and on “paper”. I can see where this could easily become overwhelming!

To keep things simple, for me, I will not have a lot of columns, Serial number, ship date, and comments. Fortunately, the models I am most interested in are all rather boring, being built very much identical with hardly any variation. Until this week, I had never heard of a Model 1917 with other than a 5.5” barrel. Now, I am aware of two! Similarly, the Model 1950 and the Model 1955 came with very limited options. Those can be carried in the comments section.

Likewise, to simplify things, all Model 1917s will be grouped together. Same with Model 1950s and Model 1955s. Right now, I am leaning to include the numbered models in the section from which they originated, Model 25-2 in with the Model 1955. They are mere a name change.

Even this simple, there will be a few pages of entries!

Finally, I would like to give a big “THANK YOU” to my wife. I may come up with the raw data but she is the one with the skills to type it in and organize it effectively and efficiently.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I think it would be a great thing. I would put the 625's in as well since there are so many variations.

I have two 625's that I would add. One a 625-3 3" full underlug and a 625 5" also full underlug.

I have included a link to the data base in the Opening Post.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Kevin, learn to walk, then run, before you enter a marathon! Entering data into your database when you find an invoice on an auction site that has 25 or more serial numbers of the models you are interested in can be a daunting task! Very few people understand the problem of adding this many numbers, in correct serial number order, to the middle of an established database, one line at a time! As your database grows, this task becomes more time consuming! Keep in mind your desire for information as your database grows before you add additional information about other guns and/or models!
jcelect

Thank you, all advice is welcome. I am trying to keep it simple. Serial, date shipped, model, comments.

Fortunately, the blued revolvers are simple. The stainless have multiple variations.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I have 2 letters (1917) that I can add. How do I proceed?

Another though. Has anyone though about re-uniting stocks with their parent frames?

Mentioned in the Opening Post,

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

It has been attempted by myself and others with orphan stocks but not with any success.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

This can be handled within your parameters of columns! All SS guns have a model number and a dash number, which sometime explains the variations. Your comment column will handle any other variations in the model!
jcelect

Do NOT scroll through pages of serial numbers, regardless of how they are sorted, to try to find a serial number.

The quickest and most effective method for finding a specific serial number (or any other data point for that matter) in any of the S&WCA databases is to use the “Search” function.

A user can also enter just a partial serial number and the system will return all records that include that partial number.

For example, say you are looking for pre-war .357 Magnum serial number 62445. The record for that gun is on page 76 of the Pre-war .357 Magnum database…..


To find that record you can either scroll through 75 pages of serial numbers, OR the much more efficient method is to use the Search field and enter partial number 6244 - the system will then immediately return the record for 62445 as well as all of the other records containing 6244 as follows…..


Using partial numbers in the Search field will often return interesting records of other nearby serial numbers which may be useful to the user.

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Terry Lester

Where can I find this database?

To View The SWCA Pre-War .357 Magnum Database:
1. Contact Mike Helms at [email protected] to obtain your SWCA Website login credentials (note this is different from your S&W Forum login)
2. Navigate to the S&WCA Website at Smith & Wesson Collectors Association – The Collectors Resource for Historic Smith & Wesson Firearms
3. Click on Member Login and use the login credentials obtained from Mike Helms to login.
4. Once you have logged into the Website, click on Databases
5. Under Hand Ejector Revolvers select Pre-war .357 Magnum
6. The entries in the database are listed in serial number order.
7. Use the Search function to find a specific listing or use the sort function in the header fields to rearrange the data.
8. Contact me via email ([email protected]) or PM if you still have issues with the database that need to be addressed

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Terry Lester

Terry, you are 100% correct about the "Search Function" of the data base.
My point was how a database lists a series of numbers with a different number of digits. In the case of my CST database and Bob Townsend's Chief's Special we are trying to list a block of serial numbers. In the CST database the block of 5 digit serial numbers should be placed first to view, because of the dates the guns were made. The problem arose when we made the transition from my Excel database to the SWCA database format!
I believe the solution is for me to talk to Mike Helms and possibly resubmit a new format based on blocks of serial numbers ie; Bob Townsend's database!
A good winter project!
Joe Cebull SWCA#LM723

40294 shipped April 1918
Commercial model 178696 shipped in october 1925

Robert

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Robert,

Thank you.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

# 180692, a commercial 1917, shipped in Jan 1936.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks Gil!

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.