Ladysmith 3rd Model

Tom K · #1 03-13-2009, 08:31 AM

I picked up from my dealer a Ladysmith 3rd Model .22 Long that I had bought through Gunbroker.com. It has a nickel refinish and has been buffed hard - the S&W logo is completely gone and the pin ends are flat. There are still readable markings on the side and top of the barrel, but there is a bulge about 1/2 inch from the muzzle and it appears to be unsullied by any remnants of rifling. The mechanics seem to work well. It has non-S&W pearl grips, cracked on the right side, but I also won an auction on Gunbroker for some wood S&W 3rd Model grips. When I get those I'll have to see which I like better. Overall I think it looks pretty good, in spite of the severe refinish.

I do of course plan to shoot it, but only with Colibi ammo that has no powder, just primer - 20 grain bullet at 500fps. That ought to be enough to satisfy my urge to make it go "bang", without overstressing it.

The auction for the Ladysmith was a no-reserve and had been sitting at $325 for a couple of days. I put in a bid (that in retrospect was rather too high) and the proxy bidding system only went up one increment, to $330. So whoever had bid $325 had put that in as their top bid. End of auction was several hours away and I wouldn't be able to get back to it until much later, so I figured it would probably increment up some more - hopefully not up past my high bid.

Lo and behold, when I got the opportunity to check the auction after it was complete, I was the winner at $330! I went ahead and splurged and paid for it by credit card (3% extra, or about ten bucks). Shipping was $20 and my dealer only charges $10 for transfers, so the total price was $370. Never thought I'd get a Ladysmith in decent shape for that little.

Until I get some new pictures taken, here's a link to the auction:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti...m.asp?Item=123661613

Tom K · #2 03-13-2009, 08:31 AM

I picked up from my dealer a Ladysmith 3rd Model .22 Long that I had bought through Gunbroker.com. It has a nickel refinish and has been buffed hard - the S&W logo is completely gone and the pin ends are flat. There are still readable markings on the side and top of the barrel, but there is a bulge about 1/2 inch from the muzzle and it appears to be unsullied by any remnants of rifling. The mechanics seem to work well. It has non-S&W pearl grips, cracked on the right side, but I also won an auction on Gunbroker for some wood S&W 3rd Model grips. When I get those I'll have to see which I like better. Overall I think it looks pretty good, in spite of the severe refinish.

I do of course plan to shoot it, but only with Colibi ammo that has no powder, just primer - 20 grain bullet at 500fps. That ought to be enough to satisfy my urge to make it go "bang", without overstressing it.

The auction for the Ladysmith was a no-reserve and had been sitting at $325 for a couple of days. I put in a bid (that in retrospect was rather too high) and the proxy bidding system only went up one increment, to $330. So whoever had bid $325 had put that in as their top bid. End of auction was several hours away and I wouldn't be able to get back to it until much later, so I figured it would probably increment up some more - hopefully not up past my high bid.

Lo and behold, when I got the opportunity to check the auction after it was complete, I was the winner at $330! I went ahead and splurged and paid for it by credit card (3% extra, or about ten bucks). Shipping was $20 and my dealer only charges $10 for transfers, so the total price was $370. Never thought I'd get a Ladysmith in decent shape for that little.

Until I get some new pictures taken, here's a link to the auction:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti...m.asp?Item=123661613

cgt4570 · #3 03-13-2009, 03:17 PM

I have one that's in perfect mechanical condition, that went back to S&W for re-nickel around 1920. (cost me about twice as much as yours)
I've shot mine a few times too with .22 short subsonic CBs with no ill effects. It's neat to show it with my nickel Model 29!

depicts · #4 03-13-2009, 03:28 PM

I just got my first one also. The finish is a bit rough, but all original. I paid $1200, and paid for it over time from a great S&WCA member. Mine looks like a gun that has had a life. I wish it could talk. It's shown here with my Model 19. You got a great price for a fun little pistol.

opoefc · #5 03-14-2009, 11:11 AM

Tom K, You did alright, I think. The parts are woth more than what the whole gun cost you. These Ladysmiths have a soft spot in my heart for me, as I also got my first one in an auction. It's a 6 inch, 3rd model target, blue, presentation engraved with three pairs of grips, (smooth walnut, ivory & pearls, all with medallions & numbered to the gun!) It cost me $60! That was over 50 yrs ago, however. I still have it. It was presented by Jack Warner, of Warner Bros. pictures, to his mistress, circa WW1. It was the S&W that convinced me to keep it and start a collection of S&Ws. Before that I just bought them, shot them and sold them! Ed.

depicts · #6 03-14-2009, 01:19 PM

Ed, I'd love to see a picture of that little gun!

Tom K · #7 03-14-2009, 01:37 PM

Here's something interesting. I said that the Ladysmith that I bought had been buffed over hard, so that there was no trace of the logo on the side. However I was perusing another Ladysmith online (priced at $2850!), labeled as having "98% original blue finish" and it appears to have no logo on it at all. Here are a couple of pictures from the listing.

(*Note* - To reiterate, these are NOT pictures of my gun - I am just posting them here as an example of a gun without the S&W logo.)

So, if in fact there are guns that don't have the logo, then maybe my example hasn't been done over as hard as I thought. The pin ends are still flattened, though.

By the way, is it Ladysmith, LadySmith, or Lady Smith?

depicts · #8 03-14-2009, 06:12 PM

Tom, for that model, it is Ladysmith, with a small s.

This picture you just posted shows different grips than I've seen before. Nice grips. Mine are smooth. I wonder if those are original issue on the Model M?

Hondo44 · #9 03-15-2009, 12:53 AM

Here's my second 3rd Model (sorry for small photo). A very nice factory refinsh (stamped with star) I just got recently for $1200. Book implies they are always stamped with logo on left side or sideplate, but with Smiths, "The main rule is, there are no rules." Mine is stamped on right side like most that I've seen.
I've asked my son to comment on the checkered grips. We've seen before and feel they are an uncommon factory option.

Jim
S&WCA #819

“Ten day waiting period? But I'm mad now!”

Pontiaker · #10 03-15-2009, 01:26 AM

From what I have found the checkered grips were availible from Smith but you normally only see them on the long barrel target sighted guns. I thought they look very cool so I picked up an extra clean pair of original smooth wood grips and had them checkered by Keith Brown. They came out awesome and look great on my gun. I will take and post some pics of them on my nickle third model tomorrow.I shoot mine pretty often, probably more than I should. Mine is original finish in decent shape but the forcing cone was pretty bad when we got it. I have since installed a brand new nickle NOS S&W barrel on mine. I have shot the 500fps Colibri ammo in mine but prefer the 350fps ammo, the yellow box with the Hummingbird. Its not as loud, dont need muffs:~)
Matt

Pontiaker · #11 03-15-2009, 01:46 PM

Here is a pic of mine with the new checkered grips.
Matt

depicts · #12 03-15-2009, 03:18 PM

Keith does great work. Those are beautiful. Almost too nice for that gun... almost!

What barrel length is that?

Hondo44 · #13 03-15-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by depicts:
Keith does great work. Those are beautiful. Almost too nice for that gun... almost!

What barrel length is that?

It's the far less common 2 1/4" I believe. Cute, huh?

Pontiaker,
Or is it the scarce and very elusive 2"?

Jim

Tom K · #14 03-16-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pontiaker:
Here is a pic of mine with the new checkered grips.
Matt

Matt, it appears that your Ladysmith also has no S&W logo stamped on the frame. Is that correct? I wonder how common this is.

Tom K · #15 03-16-2009, 08:19 PM

I finally found some time to shoot some pics of the gun myself:

You can see how the pins have been flattened during the buffing. There's no sign at all of a S&W logo, and I suspect this is one of those guns that never had one.

The barrel markings are still reasonably sharp.

[/IMG]

In closeup, you can see that the hammer has had some pretty severe corrosion.

I tried to get some shots of the lunar landscape inside the barrel, but the depth of field was too small to get a sense of it. I may try one of the stacking programs at a later date, that combines several photos with different focus points to simulate a great depth of field.

Hondo44 · #16 03-16-2009, 08:54 PM

[/QUOTE]Matt, it appears that your Ladysmith also has no S&W logo stamped on the frame. Is that correct? I wonder how common this is.[/QUOTE]

The logo is more commonly on the sideplate as is mine and Pontiaker's. Study the sideplate carefully for remnants.

opoefc · #17 03-18-2009, 11:27 AM

The factory had problems and failures with stamping the logo on the sideplates, as the pressure of the stamp die sometimes warped or bent the delicate sideplates on these small guns, so logos are only occasionally found on them.

Hondo44 · #18 03-18-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom K:

The barrel markings are still reasonably sharp.
In closeup, you can see that the hammer has had some pretty severe corrosion.
I tried to get some shots of the lunar landscape inside the barrel, but the depth of field was too small to get a sense of it.

Tom,
It doesn't look near as bad as I envisioned! As good as the barrel rollmarks look I think you're right that it never had a logo stamped on it. I've purchased 3 new-old-stock barrels from the auctions @ about $100 each. If you want to pursue a new barrel and hammer try here, he's so far had what I needed at fair prices: Contact for S&W pre war parts. He purchased S&W's pre war parts inventory of 1200 lbs (50 crates): Jerry Rogers 1-352-394-7412 or [email protected] his answers to e-mail inquiries are very speedy!

Tom K · #19 03-19-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hondo44:

Tom,
It doesn't look near as bad as I envisioned! As good as the barrel rollmarks look I think you're right that it never had a logo stamped on it. I've purchased 3 new-old-stock barrels from the auctions @ about $100 each. If you want to pursue a new barrel and hammer try here, he's so far had what I needed at fair prices: Contact for S&W pre war parts. He purchased S&W's pre war parts inventory of 1200 lbs (50 crates): Jerry Rogers 1-352-394-7412 or [email protected] his answers to e-mail inquiries are very speedy!

Thanks for the info Jim. I may look into a new barrel, but I need to find out if the thing actually goes *bang* first. I really rather not replace the barrel as it has the matching serial number on the underside where the ejector rod is (as does the cylinder). What I've wondered about is if it's possible to sleeve the original barrel. I'm guessing no - there probably wouldn't be enough meat left in the thread area, or maybe anywhere along the barrel for that matter. It's pretty small.

What I do need is a S&W grip screw for a pair of 3rd Model grips. I bought a pair of wooden grips via GB ($36 with shipping) and they are missing the screw. I wasn't lucky enough that the aftermarket pearl grips used the same screw size, it's slightly larger. Here are the grips and what the gun looks like with them on it.

depicts · #20 03-19-2009, 03:36 PM

I think that gun looks great with the old grips. It all has the right flavor.

Hondo44 · #21 03-19-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom K:
Thanks for the info Jim. I may look into a new barrel, but I need to find out if the thing actually goes *bang* first. I really rather not replace the barrel as it has the matching serial number on the underside where the ejector rod is (as does the cylinder). What I've wondered about is if it's possible to sleeve the original barrel. I'm guessing no - there probably wouldn't be enough meat left in the thread area, or maybe anywhere along the barrel for that matter. It's pretty small.

What I do need is a S&W grip screw for a pair of 3rd Model grips. I bought a pair of wooden grips via GB ($36 with shipping) and they are missing the screw. I wasn't lucky enough that the aftermarket pearl grips used the same screw size, it's slightly larger. Here are the grips and what the gun looks like with them on it.

Tom,
I like your dedication to originality.
Cost wise, before I looked into sleeving the barrel which shouldn't be a problem for any of the top competent gunsmiths, but more than $100 by a lot. Plus your front sight is 1/3 gone and mis-shaped. Consider this: call S&W to verify if they'll change the barrel if you supply it and restamp it with your guns # as they used to when they had the parts. They would also stamp the barrel with a diamond (to indicate factory replaced) and stamp the grip frame with the date of the work. It will still be more original than the non-factory refinish or relined barrel.
The screw you need for your grips is exactly 3/4" long and is the standard thread used on all the much more common DA Topbreak models and pre war I frames. However, the grip screw for .32 DA Topbreaks is the same except for a 7/8" length, and it will work as is or can be ground and polished to correct length.

For both barrel and screw, I'd try here first:

Jerry Rodgers obtained S&W's pre war parts inventory of 1200 lbs (50 crates): Phone: 1-352-394-7412 or [email protected] his answers to e-mail inquiries are very speedy!

depicts · #22 03-20-2009, 09:47 PM

I decided to take a minute and take a less contrasty picture. I think my old battle scarred veteran is beautiful.