I recently purchased a 5-screw, 4-inch Smith & Wesson 1950 Military (pre Model 21) .44 Special with the original box and owners manual and original grips numbered to the gun. I was shocked to even see the gun! It is in 98% plus condition. The father of the guy who owned it bought it brand new in 1956 to use for bear protection, then put it away when the first .44 magnum showed up in Juneau a month or two later. There is one tiny spot of holster wear near the muzzle on one side, but if it was fired, it was fired darned few times because there is no outline of the cartridge heads in the bluing on the recoil shield that you usually see. The gun came with an extra set of magna-style stag grips that are a bit too big for my hand, so I put the original wood ones back on. I paid $2255.00. Did I do OK, or did I pay too much? I fell in love with it instantly, and the guy knew he had me.

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SWCA 2379

I recently purchased a 5-screw, 4-inch Smith & Wesson 1950 Military (pre Model 21) .44 Special with the original box and owners manual and original grips numbered to the gun. I was shocked to even see the gun! It is in 98% plus condition. The father of the guy who owned it bought it brand new in 1956 to use for bear protection, then put it away when the first .44 magnum showed up in Juneau a month or two later. There is one tiny spot of holster wear near the muzzle on one side, but if it was fired, it was fired darned few times because there is no outline of the cartridge heads in the bluing on the recoil shield that you usually see. The gun came with an extra set of magna-style stag grips that are a bit too big for my hand, so I put the original wood ones back on. I paid $2255.00. Did I do OK, or did I pay too much? I fell in love with it instantly, and the guy knew he had me.

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SWCA 2379

Sounds like a awsome acquisition. I sure woul dliike to see some pictures of it if you can post any. I"m little to green when it comes to the value of older Smiths to know how good deal it is, but I would sur elove to see it.

Really like to see her...
Great revolver.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I've never posted photos before, but I'll try. I have a meeting in a few minutes (I'm on the board of the local rifle range), so I won't be able to do it before tomorrow.

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SWCA 2379

I think that's a reasonable price -- or maybe the more accurate thing to say is that I would have paid that price for that revolver regardless of whether someone else considered the deal reasonable or not. I have paid almost that much for uncommon N-frames of similar age and condition. Those Almost-New guns in the box from the company's postwar and midcentury production are just inescapable magnets for me. I understand why you had to have this gun.

I also would love to see photos of this revolver. Congratulations on what sounds like a spectacular acquisition.

David Wilson

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David Wilson

I would pay that much for a pre 21 with a 4 in. barrel in the condition you describe. I know where there is a model marked 21 available for about $1000 that I will not even think about since it has been butchered up very badly, the good ones are always worth spending the money for.

As described, I would have made the deal without blinking. Good job! Now, where are the pictures?

I had a 4" boxed pre 21 in similar condition.

You paid a very fair price. You could easily get your money out of it. As you most likey know there were only 1200 total made , with the 4" guns the most scarce.

Emory

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Hard To Kill

crofoot629, I believe the 4" is the most common length followed by 5" and 6.5".

Isn't there an easier way to put photos on this thing than to join photobucket? It seems like a lot of screwing around to me just to put a photo somewhere. I don't WANT to be any more computer literate than I am. Why can't I just copy and paste the darned things in place?

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SWCA 2379

Because it won't work.

I use http://www.tinypic.com/ -- it's easy.

1. Click on the link listed right above.

2. When you get there, click on the "File" rectangle. Your cursor will start blinking.

3. Next, click on "Browse" and find the file in your computer.

4. Click on the file and then on "Open."

5. Next, click on "Upload Now!"

6. When the list of links pop up, copy the one that says "IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards."

7. Paste it on to the body of your message.

You are done--it's easy.

Hope this helps.

GB

Looking forward to pictures, and I think that was a great price - the box is a real plus.

Did it come with any factory cleaning kit/ tools?

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William H. Smith

Gosh...and to think that there are guys on this forum who squeal like stuck pigs if they think they paid ten bucks too much for a really nice M-60!

I think you'll like that gun. Going to shoot it any, or just keep it as a piece of history?

T-Star

I no longer own either of these guns, but here ya go!
Here is a nice boxed one.



And a pair of 4" Pre-21's, one with after market sights.



and the 4inchers are the most scarce , and depending on condition you may have paid about 1/2 price for your example.

Come on, get them pics up!

Emory

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Hard To Kill

crofoot629, there is no way there are more 1950 Pre-21 6.5"ers than 4"ers. This is my proposed breakdown from personal experience and research:

4" - 50% (maybe more)
5" - 40%
6.5" - 10% (maybe less)

I could be off, so I would like to hear what other members think.

Here goes my try at posting the photos... I'm not the worlds greatest photographer, so if anyone has suggestions as to how I can shoot better ones, I'd appreciate them. Thank you, Gunbarrel, for your directions. They seem clearer than the Photobucket directions.







I appreciate everyone's input. I felt that I did OK on the deal. Since I didn't like the stag grips, I traded them, plus another set of stag grips I'd paid $20.00 for a couple of years ago, and a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special for an almost new S&W 396 Night Guard .44 Special. Since I didn't like either set of grips, I was as happy as a clam! I might have been able to get more money for the grips if I had sold them on-line, but I made the other guy, who I consider a good friend, very happy and I don't feel I really lost any money on the deal.

I took some pictures of the box, pamphlet and accessories that came with the gun. If people want to see them I'd be glad to post them. I don't want to do it if people aren't interested.

Can anyone tell me if the screwdriver the guy gave me is correct for the time period? He said it came with the gun, but I would have thought that a gun from that time period might have come with a different screwdriver. I don't know that much about the accessories that came with older S&W revolvers, and I would apprecite the information.

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SWCA 2379

whelenshooter, I believe your 98+% estimate is right on. I've seen similar packages sell (not just the asking price) for around $4000. Well done!

Whelenshooter,

You are welcome. Hey, that's a real beauty--congrats!!

GB

That is one outstanding buy - I am green with envy, you did exceptionally well.

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William H. Smith

WOW, my new grail gun

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Sure you did

Yeah, I'd have to put that very high on my interest list if I ran across one.
Great acquisition.

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John

No thread about .44 Militaries would be complete without a couple of pictures of a two-tone
6 1/2" variant, with factory maple stocks and factory target sight blade :





Later, Mike Priwer

Jeremy,
You are in the ball park.
Whelenshooter-fixed sight guns did not come with screwdrivers.
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Hi Whelenshooter, Adam here. Even though I have held that 1950, I never get tired at looking at her. She is a beauty!

Later...

- Adam

WOW, what a fabulous Package. You did very good in my opinion.

thanks for sharing

Dan

Adam is the guy I traded the grips to. I hate to say it, but I still haven't had the time to shoot that 396!

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SWCA 2379

Mike, Cecil King's Pre-21 has been #1 on my "holy grail" list from the moment I saw it. Actually, it's the only gun I've ever used as my computer background. Its story is truly amazing. Thank you for sharing it again. I believe you also have a 3" Model 15 Pinto that would be right below it. I haven't seen it in a while. You should post it (not necessarily in this thread).

Here is my only Pre-21:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by whelenshooter:


QUOTE]


Son, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Outstanding,

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Mike Priwer,
What is the knurled blued extension on the barrel of your two-tone gun? Did you say this gun is all factory original? It sure is unusual! I 've NEVER seen anything like it! ...And I thought I was lucky running into MY gun! You'd probably fall into a manure pile and come up with a $1,000 bill in your hand!

Jeremyws1,
Is your gun a 5-inch? I like the way it is proportioned.

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SWCA 2379

Yes, it's a 5" barrel.

W

The gun is a smooth bore, and the knurled blued extension is the choke.

J

Robby Mattson may have taken some pictures of that 3" Model 15 two-tone. That is
actally one of three similar guns. The other two are early 3" Model 19's, in two
tone, one a square butt, and the other a round butt. I will try to find the pictures.

Later, Mike Priwer

Picked up a 5" .44 Military in Chicago in 1964 while looking for a nice M1917; $50 versus $45 for the 1917. Sold it a couple of years later out in CA while in the service for about the same price.

I suppose I ought to feel real bad about having it pass through my hands, but it really is--just a gun. They come and go.

Me, I'm just trying to get along and have some fun with the things.

That makes 2 of us.

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Sure you did

You're correct the screwdriver (sight adjusting tool) is a much later model. However, since the gun does not have target sights it wouldn't have come with any sight adjusting tool. The right one for target guns of the period of your gun is all blue steel with 9 bands of knurling. They go for up to $200. There's one on e-bay now with 3 days to go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...IT&item=190293285593

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jeremyws1,
You're correct.
I believe crofoot is confusing 4" scarcity with the 1950 44 Target pre models & model 24s. The 4 " are scarce for those, 5" are rare, 5 1/2" extremley rare and 6 1/2" most common.

But the 4" Militarys are the most common and 6 1/2" the scarcest. SCSW 3rd ed. Pages 160 and 161.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Mike,
I always wondered if my Maple stocked 45 N frame had factory grips. I guess so.

What's the DOB on your "thing of exotic beauty"?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim

The gun was shipped in Oct, 1954. Congressman King also had a model 40 with
maple stocks, shipped in 1952 - 1953 time period. I've also seen a model 39 with
these maple stocks.

If I were you, I would get a letter on you 45, specifically inquiring about the
stocks. I'm not aware that these maple stocks were used for standard production
guns, but rather were reserved for special people and/or guns.

Later, Mike Priwer

Mike, you may be able to fill me in on this, and perhaps a little clarification...

What would be the correct marking on a box for a model 1950 Army .45 Caliber? (.45 Colt, to be specific.)

It would be for my "unknown" piece, which I think is a "lunchbox" special...or something.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Whelenshooter you darn near stole yours. Very, very nice catch!

This one shipped in May of 1955 to Chicago and came with the screwdriver. I suspect it was thrown in by the dealer for the original owner as the gun has not been through a collector's hands AFAIK. Note the price on the box.



Bob

Matt

I don't know what the box ought specifically ought to be. Post-WW2 revolvers
are not my main focus, even though I have a few - or more than a few. The King
smoothbore does not have a box. You might check with David Carroll.

Regards, Mike Priwer

I hope I don't get shot for saying this, but as nice as my 1950 Military .44 Special is, it doesn't shoot anywhere near as good as my new Model 21 Thunder Ranch, and another new Model 21 I purchased a year or two after the Thunder Ranch gun came out. The front sights on the new models are wider, and easier to see. They also shoot where the sights point with my handloads. They also shoot tiny little groups, which the older gun doesn't. I hope I can develop a load that will shoot where the sights point on the old gun. There is no way I will file on the sights of the original!

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SWCA 2379

It's trying to tell you something. I have a cut-off where if a gun is above that value I won't shoot it. That gun is way, way above mine! But again that is a personal thing for each of us.

Bob

If I can't shoot it, I won't own it. Maybe I should sell it to someone willing to give me a decent profit. As it is, I've put only about 50 rounds through it since I bought it. It's a cool gun, and one I'd never seen in the flesh before (in the steel?), but the new ones shoot better.

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SWCA 2379

Heres mine. Carried daily from '58-'73 in a flap style duty hoster. manufactured in '57. This was my grandfather's Houston Police duty revolver. It has seen the "elephant" and prevailed. The J-frame was his plain cloth's revolver manufactured in '67. .

Whelenshooter: I had exactly the same issue with a 1926-vintage Model 1917 Commercial in .45 ACP. Gun was made to shoot 230 gr. ball, right? It didn't ...BIGTIME! Ten-inch groups at best. I was going to let it go until I discovered quite by accident the gun loves light bullets; 185 gr. Silvertips work, 167 gr. lead are good, but the Mexican Aguila 117 gr. shoot extremely well. Go figger, eh? You might try different loads to see if it has a preference. Just a thought.

MikeyL
"Life's tough. Tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne

Jeremy,
I would have to disagree. Simply not my observation over the years. I won't try to give percentages because that would be a guess.
I will say that I have seen about three to five 5" guns for every 4".

The 6-1/2" is just flat RARE. Take note of EVERY one you encounter. 10%? Maybe, and I mean maybe. I really doubt there were that many.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

When I was in the market for a Pre-21, I documented 10-15 of them to compare prices. There were two 6.5" barrels, and the 4" barrels outnumbered the 5" barrels by one or two. I wish I still had the Excel file, but I can't find it.

I coupled my personal experience with the 26 examples listed in the SWCA database to come up with the percentages I posted. They might not be perfect since the data set is small, but I don't believe there are three to five 5" barrels to every 4" barrel. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't think that is a good indicator. The database could well be skewed because collectors are anxious to report their scarcer 4" guns, and many people owning more common 5" guns don't bother. Collectors are, by definition, competitive.
Guns for sale is a variable. Sometimes 4" are available, sometimes you will go a long time without seeing one. The 5" guns sale for a bit less than 4" when condition is the same. Why is that?
I've been observing them for over 40 years now, and I have seen more 5" than 4".

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

You obviously have A LOT more experience than I do, but I will continue to disagree that there are FAR more 5" barrels than 4" barrels. I concede that 50% and 40% in my example could be swapped given my limited data, however, I will need more evidence before I believe there is a whole number multiple (3 to 5 in your opinion) more 5" barrels than 4" barrels. Your words put into numbers would look something like this:

(5:1 ratio)

4" - 15%
5" - 80%
6.5" - 5%

(3:1 ratio)

4" - 25%
5" - 70%
6.5" - 5%

Obviously, I can't dispute your personal experience, but I don't agree with those numbers. I will leave it at that.