Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961
o

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 12-25-2011, 06:22 PM
semperfi71's Avatar
semperfi71 semperfi71 is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central New Mexico
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 1,179
Liked 1,116 Times in 409 Posts
Default

Revisited here and added more to my "documents".

Thanks a lot to all who provided this treasure trove.
__________________
Have guns...will shoot'em.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-25-2011, 07:03 PM
Paul5388's Avatar
Paul5388 Paul5388 is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rusk Co. Texas
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 31 Posts
Default

I noticed this has probably been overlooked.
BBHFarm Gallery :: Lyman's "Handbook of Cast Bullets", July 1958

It's Elmer Keith's and Ray Thompson's recommendations plus data on the 429421.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-28-2011, 10:48 AM
125JHP's Avatar
125JHP 125JHP is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: bluesky
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 237
Liked 279 Times in 148 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNY View Post
...

... as part of the information quest, is just for the sake of acquiring knowledge, not to duplicate any old loads! ...
Agreed ... why play around when Skeeters load of 7.5 Unique does this...

(I did shoot it out of my 624 also but WILL NOT out of my 696 - probably too stiff for the L frame on a regular basis)

Last edited by 125JHP; 01-02-2016 at 11:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-28-2011, 09:14 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

Thanks, Paul, for the wonderful flashback from those three pages taken out of Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook of '58. I bought that little spiral book around 1959 or so when I was 20 and prob a sophomore in college. Those pages and others gave me a sense of peering into hitherto undiscovered secrets, as to which there were old masters who know it all and shared tidbits.

I noted then and now that many of the comments were from Montana and the west, rugged country that no doubt demanded rugged guns and rugged loads for - yes - wolves!! [see Thompson comments re 431244]

This is all part of the allure of the .44 Special - that when the chips were down, one wished for a cartridge, load and sixgun that would save the home, the children, the livestock and turn a night of terror into a day of counting fresh wolf pelts...

Thanks for sharing,

Dyson

Last edited by DGNY; 12-28-2011 at 09:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-28-2011, 09:26 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,474
Likes: 88,978
Liked 24,784 Times in 8,482 Posts
Default

"Agreed ... why play around when Skeeters load of 7.5 Unique does this...

(I did shoot it out of my 624 also but WILL NOT out of my 696 - probably too stiff for the L frame on a regular basis)"

Try shooting the Skeeter load out of a 3" Charter Arms Bulldog. It bites, even with rubber grips.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-28-2011, 10:07 PM
Paul5388's Avatar
Paul5388 Paul5388 is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rusk Co. Texas
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 31 Posts
Default

If you looked through the manuals I have posted, you'll notice most of the reproduced pages deal with .38 Special and .357 Mag. The .357 Mag holds a special place with me, since I have several plus a couple of rifles. It wasn't until fairly recently that I began to get into the big bores, M57s, M625s and M629s.

I currently keep .44 Special wadcutters in the M629, but will probably do more with the .44 Special in the future. I can be assured the M629 is up to whatever .44 Special loads I decide on. However, there's always a need for more information to make those decisions. I probably need to make a special nested album for the articles and data pertaining to the .44 Special. If I do, the links I provided before won't work, but I'll repost the new album link if/when I do it.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-30-2011, 07:32 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default Another update

Thanks to Dale53 we all have more reading material.
Here are the names of the five "new" files:

Brian Pearce on the 44 Special
NRA - Loads for the 44 Special
Ruger Lipsey 44 Special
Taffin - In Defense of the 44
Taffin Tests - 44 Special

They are located with the rest of them at the link below.

44 Special Articles
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-31-2011, 05:49 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

Thanks to Matt G, and to Dale 53, for the additional information for study and evaluation.

Some interesting details will award study, such as a reference to the 'Keith' load [#2400/240-250gr 429421] pressures compared to assertion in earlier article of the pressure being only around 20K. Having no particular horse in this race, I mention this simply to enliven interest. [I have never used the 'Keith' load, except to bend a Charter ejector rod.]

Thanks again,

Dyson
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 01-04-2012, 03:20 PM
Dale53 Dale53 is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southwestern Ohio
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 209
Liked 1,195 Times in 457 Posts
Default

It's a shame that this data is getting buried. It really ought to be a "sticky" so it is available to anyone who is interested.

How about it, moderators?

Dale53
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 01-04-2012, 09:16 PM
moosedog moosedog is offline
SWCA Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,852
Likes: 11,782
Liked 13,763 Times in 3,347 Posts
Default

I agree, this deserves a "sticky".
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 01-06-2012, 10:11 PM
handejector's Avatar
handejector handejector is offline
Administrator
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,014
Likes: 7,107
Liked 48,566 Times in 9,218 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
It's a shame that this data is getting buried. It really ought to be a "sticky" so it is available to anyone who is interested.

How about it, moderators?

Dale53
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosedog View Post
I agree, this deserves a "sticky".
Ever noticed this?
Sticky: Notable Thread Index

I put this thread there about noon, 1-2-12.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 01-06-2012, 11:57 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

Thanks for this designation for the thread. Hope many will consult and enjoy.

Regards,

Dyson
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 01-11-2012, 05:31 PM
mike454 mike454 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Likes: 35
Liked 185 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Here are 1st 5 pages. This is all the narrative included in my copy, and I believe my copy is complete. For an example of loads listed see next post.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo1.jpg (133.5 KB, 202 views)
File Type: jpg photo2.jpg (171.1 KB, 165 views)
File Type: jpg photo3.jpg (191.4 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg photo4.jpg (172.8 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg photo6.jpg (181.3 KB, 104 views)

Last edited by mike454; 01-11-2012 at 06:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 01-11-2012, 05:33 PM
mike454 mike454 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Likes: 35
Liked 185 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Here is a page of data for Keith designed 429421. The rest of the data included follows this format. I would not believe the pressures listed for a minute. Not sure if they were using balloon head or solid. *For informational purpose only. Do not use data*
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo5.jpg (165.9 KB, 175 views)

Last edited by mike454; 01-11-2012 at 06:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 01-11-2012, 06:30 PM
TripleLock's Avatar
TripleLock TripleLock is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plantersville, MS
Posts: 226
Likes: 790
Liked 402 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Many thanks to mike454 for posting pages from the 44 Associates!
I have to agree with that illustrious group of gentlemen - the 44 Special is, indeed, "Handgun Cartridge #1".
This thread just keeps getting better!

Jim

Last edited by TripleLock; 01-11-2012 at 06:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:34 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Mike454...Thank you!!!
I have taken the liberty of making a pdf file out of those 5 images you posted.
That file is now uploaded to the server and it's called 44 Associates.pdf
If that is a problem, let me know and I will remove it.

Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:41 PM
mike454 mike454 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Likes: 35
Liked 185 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Matt, The only problem is that they were posted by me in the wrong order. Image 4 & 5 should be switched. If you'd like I can email you the images that should be of higher quality, about 15 mb total. Pm me your email if interested. I got this copy of the 44 associates "44 special loads" about 15 years ago from John Taffin, don't know where he got it.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 01-11-2012, 11:13 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

Hearty thanks for this new information, to all who are posting and assisting with images and posting. We rejoice to be closing this gap in our knowledge. And as we do, remember, as stated above, these loads are for information only and not for replication in some old [or even new] .44 Special.

Nonetheless, wouldn't it be great to have a pressure run on these loads, using authentic components.

Excellent!

Regards,

Dyson
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 01-12-2012, 06:38 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Mike454, you have a pm.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default Two things...

First, I have fixed the pages in the 44 Associates.pdf file. They are now in the correct order.
Second, I have uploaded a new copy of the S&W Triplelock and the 44 Special Cartridge.pdf by Gordon Boser.
As anyone who has downloaded that file knows, it was a touch blurry and a little hard to read.
I found another source for that article and he came thru today.
The new uploaded copy is much easier on the eyes.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 01-14-2012, 10:03 AM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Mike454 was kind enough to send me the original scans for the 44 Associates compilation by Lawrence Newton.
I have created a pdf file from them and uploaded it to the server. It is a bit better quality than the copy that was there.
Thanks Mike!
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 01-15-2012, 09:54 AM
mike454 mike454 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
Likes: 35
Liked 185 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Glad to help Matt. Interesting note: A number of people seem to thing that because there were 200 copies printed that there were 200 people in this group. I don't believe this to be the case. Newton in at least one issue of American Rifleman was selling copies of the load book in the classifieds for $1.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 01-17-2012, 11:43 PM
ddixie884's Avatar
ddixie884 ddixie884 is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Avery,Tx
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 3,812
Liked 1,860 Times in 938 Posts
Default

Great info....................
__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 01-18-2012, 01:18 AM
GLL's Avatar
GLL GLL is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 223
Liked 828 Times in 236 Posts
Default

Matt & Mike:

Do we know any of the living "members" of the .44 Associates so we can get some idea of how many people were interacting with each other? Are we talking one or two dozen individuals or many? Even though they printed 200 copies of the loading booklet it may have been a very small group ! ?

Jerry
__________________
.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:57 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default

If you look at the fifth page of the pdf file, you'll see the list of sources for all the data in the booklet.
I think it is a pretty safe bet that those individuals listed there were all members of the 44 Associates.
Now whether that is all the members or not, who knows.
By my count there are 14 individuals in that list.
Gordon C. Boser
George V. Chapman
Eric M. Farr
Elmer Keith
J.W. Landon
R.G. Mosgrove
F.C. Ness
Lawrence I. Newton
Capt. Philip B. Sharpe
J.A. Smith
George W. Spence
Ray C. Thompson
Norman P. White
O.L. Yancey

If there were other members, they didn't contribute any data that was included in this booklet.
FWIW...
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 01-20-2012, 01:01 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

Thanks to all those who are continuing this educational journey. I wonder of anyone here owns one [or more] of the very .44s that these .44 Associates used in their excursions into the frontiers of the .44 Magnum? Or if one of our numbers knows the location of such a gun, in addition to the EK .44, which I think is in a display. [Refresher needed.] It would be a hoot to locate and get a shooting report on such a piece.

Also wonder if a modern distributor would care to do a run of ".44 Associates 4" or 6.5" or even 5" .44 S&W Special N-frame non-lock square-butt revolvers? Like a Model 24-3, but perhaps marked '.44 Associates', yet made like an enhanced Model 29 but with short chamber for .44 Special.

Regards,

Dyson
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 01-20-2012, 01:06 PM
squidsix squidsix is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 3,527
Likes: 1,902
Liked 5,626 Times in 1,543 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNY View Post
Thanks to all those who are continuing this educational journey. I wonder of anyone here owns one [or more] of the very .44s that these .44 Associates used in their excursions into the frontiers of the .44 Magnum? Or if one of our numbers knows the location of such a gun, in addition to the EK .44, which I think is in a display. [Refresher needed.] It would be a hoot to locate and get a shooting report on such a piece.

Also wonder if a modern distributor would care to do a run of ".44 Associates 4" or 6.5" or even 5" .44 S&W Special N-frame non-lock square-butt revolvers? Like a Model 24-3, but perhaps marked '.44 Associates', yet made like an enhanced Model 29 but with short chamber for .44 Special.

Regards,

Dyson
I'd get in line for one. Definately.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #128  
Old 01-20-2012, 09:30 PM
TripleLock's Avatar
TripleLock TripleLock is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plantersville, MS
Posts: 226
Likes: 790
Liked 402 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLL View Post
Do we know...how many people were interacting with each other? Are we talking one or two dozen individuals or many?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_G View Post
If there were other members, they didn't contribute any data that was included in this booklet.
On the fifth page of the informaton provided by mike454, under the heading "Source Identification", Lawrence Newton wrote that load entries labled with a source of "Assoc." came from "reliable data from 44 Associates files". And indeed one load with that source citation is shown on the page of loads provided by mike454. The informaton for this load must have come from someone, and likely from some other Associates member whose contribution was not as great as one of the 'named' contributors

The following appears a bit further down on the same page, under the heading "Acknowledgements":
"This compilation could not have been made without the ready cooperation of the several score big bore shooters who call themselves informally "44 ASSOCIATES". To each of them personally the editor acknowledges his debt and tenders sincere thanks, and especially is he grateful to those whose major contributions are evidenced by individual listing in the Source Identification table above." Since Mr. Newton refers to "the several score", it can be reasonably assumed that the .44 Associates numbered something in excess of 40.

In similar discussions on other boards I have seen the following additional men mentioned as having also been members of the 44 Associates: Parker O. Ackley, Julian Hatcher, John Lachuck, Earl Naramore, and Townsend Whelen.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 01-21-2012, 09:01 AM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Thanks for posting that information Triplelock.
I totally missed that "several score" statement.
Didn't read carefully enough!

Item 2: A member of another board, Zac0419, took an online article by Ross Seyfried on the Lipsey Ruger Flattop and made a pdf file of it.
I have uploaded that pdf file to the server.
Dale53 had reminded me of that article a while back by giving me a link, but I kind of forgot about it and didn't follow through.

Item 3: If anyone has trouble getting the pdf files to show properly in your browser, try right clicking the link and clicking "save link as" or "save target as" and then saving the file to your local hard drive and opening it from there.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 01-21-2012, 12:13 PM
AKtinman AKtinman is offline
SWCA Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MN, At The Lake
Posts: 649
Likes: 629
Liked 1,093 Times in 272 Posts
Default

Matt_G thanks for posting these articles on your website. An excellent asset for .44 Special fans!

I don't have a copy to send you, but Ken Waters did a "Pet Loads" article on the .44 Special in the May 1981 Handloader. It would be a fine article to include if someone has a copy available.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 02-06-2012, 03:30 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNY View Post
Thanks to all those who are continuing this educational journey. I wonder of anyone here owns one [or more] of the very .44s that these .44 Associates used in their excursions into the frontiers of the .44 Magnum? Or if one of our numbers knows the location of such a gun, in addition to the EK .44, which I think is in a display. [Refresher needed.] It would be a hoot to locate and get a shooting report on such a piece.

Also wonder if a modern distributor would care to do a run of ".44 Associates 4" or 6.5" or even 5" .44 S&W Special N-frame non-lock square-butt revolvers? Like a Model 24-3, but perhaps marked '.44 Associates', yet made like an enhanced Model 29 but with short chamber for .44 Special.

Regards,

Dyson
Hi Dyson,

A prototype (so to speak) of your desired gun has been produced by S&W. It is a 24-4.
I'm sure you're aware of "The Twelve Revolvers", a distributor exclusive shown in the SCSW 3rd edition. One of these revolvers was a 44 Spl and since it was not produced until 1990, well after the limited run of 24-3 .44s, it had all the features of the N frame enhancements of the period including the longer cyl stop notches. It was stamped 24-4. Unbeknownst to most but typical for dist. exc. guns, there were "over run" guns. I recently past up one for sale, but was sorely tempted since I have the same desire as you described. Ruger has made a set of 44 Assoc single action 44s for current living Assoc. members with a few "over runs" also floating around.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 02-06-2012 at 03:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 02-06-2012, 12:48 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Wink

Hello, Jim -

Thanks for your informative post. While having read on the "12", I had forgotten a .44 Special; nor did I know of overruns. You are quite right in saying that would have been a prototype for my suggested S&W. Perhaps drawings and CAD/CAM materials are yet known internally to S&W. With all the interest in the Ruger .44 Specials, blue, stainless, plow handle and Bisley, I should think S&W could attract more than a few buyers with newly minted Model 24s. [Why - they could even call them the New Triple Lock, substituting the IL for the middle lock on the TL. Kidding http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/icons/icon12.gif..]

How about a run of 3", 4", 5" and 6.5"? [Or even just 3" and 5".] Everything from carry to hunting could be accommodated. Maybe a few pinto blue/stainless examples. Well, we can dream.

As to which, maybe a standard price loader such as Mag-Tech would undertake some +P, to bring down the cost of the .44 MiniMags offered by some notable small American loaders.

But, to return to the topic, the .44 Associates led the way for years; and their leadership is not forgotten. S&W - are you listening?

Best,

Dyson
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 02-06-2012, 06:44 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default

I just took delivery of a new Ruger myself.
Bisley Flattop 44 Special.
I already had one of Lipsey's that were run a couple years back.
When I saw they did 'em with the Bisley grip frame I just had to have one.
Can't wait to get out to the range with it.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 02-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Gunhacker's Avatar
Gunhacker Gunhacker is offline
SWCA Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,508
Likes: 1,585
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
Default

Sweet.... those Lipsey's .44's are a rare breed here in CA, I'm drooling on my keyboard..
__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 03-03-2012, 01:37 PM
TripleLock's Avatar
TripleLock TripleLock is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plantersville, MS
Posts: 226
Likes: 790
Liked 402 Times in 128 Posts
Default Phil Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading

Resurrecting this one, with a page of loads for the .44 Special from the 1937 edition of Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading". I have tracked down a copy of Ken Waters' article from Handloading Magazine, and will post a copy when I get it thru the scanner.

TL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Complete Guide to Handloading - 44 Special.jpg (82.7 KB, 111 views)

Last edited by TripleLock; 03-03-2012 at 01:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 03-03-2012, 02:27 PM
Krogen's Avatar
Krogen Krogen is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 2,893
Likes: 8,820
Liked 5,229 Times in 1,841 Posts
Default

Interesting thing about that chart is they specify seating depth, not overall length. Perhaps they were more attuned to effective case capacity than most of us today.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:24 PM
william iorg william iorg is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Texas
Posts: 111
Likes: 6
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

They probably were.
I liked Ken Waters Pet Loads article because he told of the remarkable accuracy of the 44 Russian and 44 special along with the amazing skill of some of the shooters.
A.L.A. Himmelwright’s book does the same.
__________________
William Iorg
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 03-03-2012, 06:57 PM
DGNY DGNY is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Garden Spot, Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 3,385
Liked 748 Times in 445 Posts
Default

Tip of the hat to TripleLock for his contribution of the Sharpe material from 1937. And thanks to everyone else who has contributed. Haven't had any PMs from S&W about imminent offering of NIL Model 24-4 N-frame .44 Specials!

Regards,

Dyson
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 03-04-2012, 12:26 PM
TripleLock's Avatar
TripleLock TripleLock is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plantersville, MS
Posts: 226
Likes: 790
Liked 402 Times in 128 Posts
Default 44 Special Pet Loads Article, Pages 1 thru 4

The first four pages of Ken Waters' article on the .44 Special, which originally appeared in the May 1981 issue of Handloader Magazine.

TL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Page 1.jpg (85.4 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg Page 2.jpg (71.0 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg Page 3.jpg (67.2 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg Page 4.jpg (120.9 KB, 63 views)

Last edited by TripleLock; 03-04-2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 03-04-2012, 12:31 PM
TripleLock's Avatar
TripleLock TripleLock is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plantersville, MS
Posts: 226
Likes: 790
Liked 402 Times in 128 Posts
Default 44 Special Pet Loads, Pages 5 thru 7

And the final three pages of Ken Waters' article on the .44 Special.

TL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Page 5.jpg (125.6 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg Page 6.jpg (123.4 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg Page 7.jpg (104.0 KB, 38 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #141  
Old 03-04-2012, 03:41 PM
william iorg william iorg is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Texas
Posts: 111
Likes: 6
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

This is great, I enjoy Ken Waters reporting and writing, he does his homework! Here is a picture of Sgt. W. C. Johnston Jr.
When you think that he shot the first perfect score in the U. S. at 50 yards using black powder in July 1888 and then went on to to shot SIX more tens just for fun.
No pressure, just another day at the range!

__________________
William Iorg
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 03-05-2012, 01:48 PM
TripleLock's Avatar
TripleLock TripleLock is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Plantersville, MS
Posts: 226
Likes: 790
Liked 402 Times in 128 Posts
Default

This article appeared, of all places, in the March 1917 issue of "The Scenic Lines Employees' Magazine" published by the Denver & Rio Grande - Western Pacific Railroad. A bit earlier than the "44 Associates", but definitely written by a .44 Special enthusiast.

TL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Page 0.jpg (33.0 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg Page 1.jpg (80.1 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg Page 2.jpg (101.1 KB, 82 views)
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 03-05-2012, 02:23 PM
Gunhacker's Avatar
Gunhacker Gunhacker is offline
SWCA Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,508
Likes: 1,585
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
Default

I just discovered that I have a scanned PDF file of the Ken Waters article from the May 1981 Handloader that Triplelock posted.

It didn't get sent with the other pdf files that Matt G put on his server... I'll try to get it to him to add it to the collection.

update:

Matt... the file is too large to email, I'll send it to you via a CD like the others....
__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Last edited by Gunhacker; 03-05-2012 at 02:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:56 PM
william iorg william iorg is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Texas
Posts: 111
Likes: 6
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleLock View Post
This article appeared, of all places, in the March 1917 issue of "The Scenic Lines Employees' Magazine" published by the Denver & Rio Grande - Western Pacific Railroad. A bit earlier than the "44 Associates", but definitely written by a .44 Special enthusiast.

TL

This is a very interesting read - for a TRAIN magazine! I wonder if “COLOROW” was giving honor to the fictional Indian (Ute?) of the short stories and novels at the turn of the Century, or if he was simply thinking of the “hogs.”
Good stuff , as good as Recreation or Hunter, Trapper, Trader. Here is another copy - for us train guys.

The Scenic Lines Employes Magazine: Official Railroad Journal - Denver and Rio Grande-Western Pacific Railroad (Denver, Colo.) - Google Books
__________________
William Iorg
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 03-09-2012, 04:34 PM
Matt_G's Avatar
Matt_G Matt_G is offline
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
Liked 17 Times in 4 Posts
Default Another article has been uploaded

I got a CD in the mail yesterday from Gunhacker.
The Ken Waters article has been uploaded to server.
The file name is 44 SPL - May 1981 handloader.pdf

Thanks Conrad!
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 10-30-2012, 11:39 PM
STCM(SW)'s Avatar
STCM(SW) STCM(SW) is online now
US Veteran
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: E. Washington State
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 1,321
Liked 10,568 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

What a lot of old info for my .44's!
Thanks!!
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:30 PM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: for now ,Texas
Posts: 2,738
Likes: 185
Liked 3,297 Times in 1,523 Posts
Default

It was mentioned in a previous post about " 2400 " powder changing , it's different than it used to be . I would personally like to see some proof of that . Don't tell me what some mag writer said , it's just another opinion .
I personally called Alliant several yrs ago about this subject . I talked to a VP . When I asked him if it had changed ? He replied " Not to my knowledge " and went on to explain that they have a sample of the original 2400 . He added , If they changed it , it would have to be called " 2300 " or " 2500 " . He said you can't just change the burn rate and keep the original name . Believe what you want , But what I posted is not my opinion , but the voice of someone at Alliant .
Elmer Keiths load in the 44spl using newer cases exhibited approx 25,000psi . It has been tested several times in later years and still has the same pressure rating . No Change !

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 05-12-2017 at 04:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:26 PM
lebomm lebomm is offline
Member
44 Associates' .44 Special Data? 44 Associates' .44 Special Data?  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 38
Liked 821 Times in 490 Posts
Default

My name's Larry and I'm a .44 addict.
Profoundest thanks to all who contributed to this wealth of .44 lore. I don't have a printer, but if the Associates' data ever sees a distributable printing, I will certainly be interested in a copy.

Larry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
44 magnum, 650, anaconda, bullseye, colt, heritage, m1917, m29, model 1917, model 24, model 28, model 29, primer, redhawk, ruger, sig arms, skeeter, skelton, snubnose, starline, taurus, universal, vaquero, wadcutter, winchester

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
.44 Special 208 Gr WC Load Data - Is there any out there? Duster340 Reloading 7 06-10-2014 10:56 PM
.38 Special Load Data R865 Reloading 16 10-13-2013 03:52 PM
Load data for 38 special smithwess999 Reloading 8 10-06-2012 06:21 AM
38 Special +P (New Data) Dave T S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 6 10-03-2012 11:56 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:10 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)