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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #101  
Old 10-21-2014, 10:14 PM
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Well, I don't want to be disagreeable, but I will continue to disagree. The escutcheons for the screw are odd and probably have been replaced. The other features of the stocks, and the revolver itself, are kind of a strange combination of features, some of which tend to emphasize single action shooting and others that support double action shooting. I have seen other examples of stocks with the large diamonds and there are some pictured in his books. The concavity of the stocks was to support rapid double action shooting and is also pictured and described in his books. The thumb rest is more of a single action feature but is classic Roper with the grooved surface. The fuller shape at the top is also a double action feature that he describes in his book. Bear in mind that Roper/Gagne made custom stocks and would make them to meet a specific customer's needs.

I don't want to claim any specific expertise; there are plenty of people on this forum with substantial experience with Roper grips. However, a local friend and I have owned dozens of Ropers, examined many more and done our own share of research. And I have the advantage of having actually handled this gun.
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  #102  
Old 10-21-2014, 10:21 PM
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Kevin..I certainly respect your opinion. We will just have to disagree on this one. But that is the great thing about these forums. We all share our knowledge and opinions in respectable manner and everyone wins.
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  #103  
Old 10-22-2014, 12:10 AM
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Gentlemen, since the discussion has turned to questions about possible other makes of grips that share some characteristics to Ropers, I would be curious if anyone has any information on Cloyce grips? I stumbled onto a set earlier this week and the checkering with the solid line in the middle similar to the Roper grips is what caught my eye. Where they from about the same time period and where they an acceptable brand of grip? Thank you for your time and patience with this S&W newby.

Robb
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  #104  
Old 10-22-2014, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexNekkid View Post
This 1st Issue Detective Special was apparently customized by the King Custom Sight Co. around 1939. According to a contemporaneous King catalog, these were "Double Action" Roper grips.




Quote:
Originally Posted by skilled View Post
I would refer to those as roper style. I don't believe them to be Ropers. The hardware is all wrong.
I don't know how many Ropers I have owned through the years. I do know I have sold several dozen pairs. I probably still own a half dozen or so. I keep them if they fit my hand, sell them if they don't. I detest thumbrests, so I NEVER keep them. So, I hope all you guys love thumbrests.

I don't know how many pairs I have held and examined.
A lot.
Perhaps hundreds. Maybe just many dozens.

I have seen a lot of others online that were irrefutably Ropers.

They did vary somewhat in shape and design.
Roper was an inventor/developer/experimenter. I would expect to see ideas tried and adopted, or tried and discarded. I would also expect to see what a customer requested within reason.

The hardware absolutely varies on Ropers.

It varies so much that it almost has to be DISQUALIFIED as a qualifier for verification.
I have seen factory hardware, and I have seen several types of non-factory hardware that probably came via mailorder or the local hardware store.

We do know the wood can vary from plain to fancy, and a few exotic wood pairs are known.
BUT, by and large they are walnut that is rather plain. I suspect three major reasons for that-
Cost
Stability- fancy grain can cause more warpage, cracking, and chipping.
Workability is easier with plain grain.

I use a list of factors to authenticate-
The wood.
The craftsmanship and workmanship.
Design and shaping/contouring.
The inletting style and cutting.
The checkering and/or ribbons and diamonds.
The texture they were finished to.
The color of the wood and finish.
Jig holes help and are almost always present.

Everything I can see on this pair of grips says ROPER to me.
YMMV.
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  #105  
Old 10-22-2014, 12:28 PM
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I didn't know my DS would spark such an interesting discussion. My thanks to everyone who's chipped in. The only thing I can authoritatively say about the stocks is that they're very comfortable held "pinky under." Here're pictures showing (1) the thumb rest grooves Kevin mentions (2) the stock backs and (3) the Audley Folsom holster with which it came:





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  #106  
Old 10-22-2014, 12:39 PM
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After looking at the back I am now more certain than before that these stocks are 100% not Roper. Sorry just my opinion..no disrespect intended.
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  #107  
Old 10-22-2014, 01:51 PM
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Could they be Roper made Ropers and not Gagne made Ropers?
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  #108  
Old 10-22-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skilled View Post
After looking at the back I am now more certain than before that these stocks are 100% not Roper. Sorry just my opinion..no disrespect intended.
I agree with this 100%.Even if they are Roper's they are so different that convincing potential buyers that they are in fact original Roper's would be next to impossible(not saying you are trying to sell them)
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  #109  
Old 10-22-2014, 02:19 PM
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I haven't handled hundreds or even dozens of pairs of Ropers. I have/have owned a total of 4 pair but have handled a few other sets. But, I HAVE studied hundreds of pictures of Roper stocks on this forum and other websites. I like to think I have a keen eye for similarities and have become very good at spotting Ropers, Farrants, Sandersons, Etc. on various online auction sights.

I see absolutely NO Roper characteristics with these grips other than the overall look (the ribbon, the grooves on the thumbrest, etc.) which I believe was made to mimic the Roper design. The checkering style does not look right at all and the insides of these grips are very crudely inletted and don't resemble the inside of any real set of Ropers I have ever seen. MOST Ropers will have the square Jig Holes, and a EITHER penciled or carved description of the gun that they fit (or BOTH penciled and carved). (You can see a few examples of this below). Roper panels also tend to be pretty thin where the stocks on the Colt are rather thick, especially at the top where a Roper stock tends to be at its thinnest;



I realize the hardware varied a bit (most are seen with either black(blued), or nickel silver escutcheons and screws) but all of them have been much smaller in diameter compared to the stocks on the Colt in question.

Below are a few examples of Ropers which also show the hardware that I am most familiar with when looking at Roper Stocks. And, if you look back through this thread there are many other great examples to see.













Also, here is a Google Image Search result for Roper Grips. MANY images to look through here (yes, I realize there are some Keith Brown Ropers and other non-roper stocks here but the majority are original.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=rope...&q=roper+grips
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  #110  
Old 10-22-2014, 02:26 PM
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I am more convinced.
The right grips show some chisel cuts made in the upper front strap area to "hog out" clearance for the front strap.
I've seen positively Gagne made grips that showed similar "hogging".
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  #111  
Old 10-22-2014, 02:30 PM
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Didn't we just have this same discussion not too long ago?

Time to show this book scan again:



I wonder how many here, if they were to see the stocks pictured at the top of the page with no other information given, would insist they are not Ropers.
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  #112  
Old 10-22-2014, 03:03 PM
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410..Nailed it. I was just to lazy to go into that much detail.

And (Handejector) Im sorry but in my experience the hardware rarely if ever changes on Ropers. Just look at all the posts of Real Ropers and Hardware is virtually identical.
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  #113  
Old 01-24-2015, 08:36 PM
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Recently acquired a new set. They are very neat but way too small for my hand sadly.







I still think they work quite well on this gun, and I would imagine someone with small hands loving them on this gun.
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  #114  
Old 01-25-2015, 09:58 AM
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STOP! STOP! Ya'll are killing us southern boys! We'll buy a gun JUST for the grips. Absolutely beautiful stuff! Ya killin me!
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  #115  
Old 01-25-2015, 10:13 AM
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Caleb, your new ropers are just like a set I have on a pre war m&p target with king sights.

I'd love to find an N frame set that is the same.





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Old 01-25-2015, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee's Landing Billy View Post
STOP! STOP! Ya'll are killing us southern boys! We'll buy a gun JUST for the grips. Absolutely beautiful stuff! Ya killin me!


Hello Lee's Landing Billy
Keep the faith and search, there is Roper's in the deep south. While walking a Local Gun show here in Knoxville,Tennessee about seven year's ago I came onto a very nice set of Roper's. They were Mounted on a Model 27-2 revolver with an 8-3/8" barrel. I knew the vendor so I asked him to see the gun. He asked me if I needed the gun ? My reply was no, but I sure could use those stock's. He then shocked me as he claimed he could not sell the gun due to those Ugly Herritt stock's that it had, and he sure wished that he had a set of factory S&W Target's to Place on it. I asked him to set the gun under the Table for a bit and quickly returned from my Truck with a pair of Factory S&W Target stocks that were in my Glove compartment. He Lit up when he saw them and asked me how I would Trade ? I said even up is fine which really pleased him. As soon as I had them in my hand, I Promptly left the gun show very happy. Here is my Roper's that I have a cash value trade of just $35.00 In. Keep up the Hunt....they are out there. Hammerdown



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Old 01-25-2015, 12:33 PM
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U Da MAN! I am 67 years old and have never seen a pair at local shows. There is a show today 20 miles away in Myrtle Beach. I have a group that meets here every Sunday to shoot, I may sneak away!
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:19 PM
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A question for the experts, is there a such thing as a pair of smooth Ropers?
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  #119  
Old 01-27-2015, 08:48 PM
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I'm not sure if I should have started a new thread, but ran across the following auction listing. It is currently at a low price...it is a clapped out monstrosity of a revolver (Colt), but has these grips on it. Can anyone estimate the value? They are not pristine...there are nicks on the bottom. Thanks



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  #120  
Old 01-28-2015, 10:09 AM
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Hammerdown, I feel your pain on being in the South and stuck with those ugly old Herritts! Because I'm such a generous type, I'll give you a set of nice K-frame targets and the $35 you had in the previous set so you can get those abominable things out of your gun safe. Don't thank me, I'm just that kind of a humanitarian!

In all seriosity, you sort of reinforced LLB's point... Ropers are so thin on the ground down here that the owner of the LGS had no idea of what he had. Can you imagine a similar sequence of events in say, Pennsylvania or New York??

Froggie

PS FWIW, the pair you have are the almost the stocks of my dreams, full on Ropers without any thumb rest, only I need K-frames.
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  #121  
Old 04-02-2015, 12:35 PM
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Friend of mine reproduced the correct screw for these (they came with none) so I can use them now.

Kind of fun, these wacky trigger stop Ropers were built for pre-war long action guns. They make for very very interesting SA shooting on a gun that they were calibrated for (of which I only have one that works exactly right). I put them on my K22/40 with it's a pre-war Long action and I think they may stay here. They fit my hand great with a lot of right hand palm swell, but the trigger stop stuff is kind of annoying. On this gun its very nice though as it's not so precise as to get in the way.

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  #122  
Old 04-02-2015, 02:16 PM
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Looks like a nice fit to e Caleb.
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  #123  
Old 04-21-2015, 01:52 PM
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These got delivered in yesterday's mail. sorry if anyone here was bidding on them. The auction pics didn't show any screws and when I asked the seller he told me they were already packed up but he thought there was only one screw for the whole lot. Well, I got lucky and that one screw was in this set. The thumb-rest is pretty neat, just enough your thumb to rest comfortably on with no extra room. Looks like these were originally made for serial # 49194, either an actual .44 or they just marked "44" for the frame size. I have another set or two that are marked 44.















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Old 04-22-2015, 01:10 AM
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Not a S&W, but what do you guys think of this old Remington Rolling Block? I was told that the frame was modified for the grips which were quite nice. I found it in a hole-in-the-wall pawn shop and am trying to negotiate a price.

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  #125  
Old 04-22-2015, 09:06 AM
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Mark, that is a neat gun. I love it. I am not sure as to a value but unless were talking crazy money I'd probably be buying it.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:19 AM
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unless were talking crazy money I'd "DEFINATELY" be buying it.

FIFY
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
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Not a S&W, but what do you guys think of this old Remington Rolling Block? I was told that the frame was modified for the grips which were quite nice. I found it in a hole-in-the-wall pawn shop and am trying to negotiate a price.

Modified frame is a typical Roper trait. If you don't want that pistol, let me know, and I don't collect Remington.
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:07 PM
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Mark, that is a neat gun. I love it. I am not sure as to a value but unless were talking crazy money I'd probably be buying it.
I agree. It's chambered in 22LR, so it'd be a lot of fun as a shooter. The shop is reluctant to price it and per State law cannot sell a used gun for 30 days (to insure it's not stolen) so we'll see how this goes. I am trying to pry it out of their hands without indicating it's anything too special. I know there is something goofy going on with the front sight, but am far from knowledgeable on Remington handguns. I just want it for the grips
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:27 PM
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Sure makes me wish that My local Pawn Shops could sell Guns.They all get listed on Gunbroker,No local sales...

This thread may be of interest to You:http://thefiringline.com/forums/arch...?t-288848.html

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Old 04-25-2015, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 410bore View Post
These got delivered in yesterday's mail. sorry if anyone here was bidding on them. The auction pics didn't show any screws and when I asked the seller he told me they were already packed up but he thought there was only one screw for the whole lot. Well, I got lucky and that one screw was in this set. The thumb-rest is pretty neat, just enough your thumb to rest comfortably on with no extra room. Looks like these were originally made for serial # 49194, either an actual .44 or they just marked "44" for the frame size. I have another set or two that are marked 44.

Well I'm glad they went to a good home
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Old 05-10-2015, 12:34 AM
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Default Here's Some Wierd Ones

I have had this "lefty target round to square" set for a few years. Not sure what they belong to - too big for a K-frame RB. Maybe a No 3 break top???

What do you think?









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Old 05-25-2015, 12:44 AM
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[QUOTE=RKmesa;138527597]I have had this "lefty target round to square" set for a few years. Not sure what they belong to - too big for a K-frame RB. Maybe a No 3 break top???

What do you think?


No doubt about it ... New Model 3 Thank you, Richard. Sal
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:28 AM
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Sal and Richard.......that made one very nice combination right there.

Made them both shine a lot brighter
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:26 PM
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[quote=model3sw;138549783]
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Originally Posted by RKmesa View Post
I have had this "lefty target round to square" set for a few years. Not sure what they belong to - too big for a K-frame RB. Maybe a No 3 break top???

What do you think?


No doubt about it ... New Model 3 Thank you, Richard. Sal
Did You refinish the Stocks? They look much more glossy than in Richard's Pictures.
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  #135  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:28 PM
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[quote=05CarbonDRZ;138550397]
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Originally Posted by model3sw View Post

Did You refinish the Stocks? They look much more glossy than in Richard's Pictures.
They were pretty shiny when I got them (I thought that someone who owned them before me may have put an additional coat of finish on them and told Sal the same prior to me sending them his direction). Looking at the photos I posted - you're right - I don't know how come they did not show the shine when I photo'd them? The photos were a bit dark when I photo'd them and I had to increase the exposure a bit - that may have washed out the shine???
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:48 PM
05CarbonDRZ 05CarbonDRZ is offline
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Could be,They look Night and Day different to me.Maybe Sal had them oiled in the Pictures he took? Are You a Lefty Sal?
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Old 04-19-2016, 06:29 PM
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I think this belongs here, even if it isn't a S&W













I believe that Roper had more to do with the gun then just the stocks.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:01 PM
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Those are nice, look just like the set on your camp perry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:12 PM
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Those are nice, look just like the set on your camp perry


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They are actually the same ones. When I got this roper sighted gun it had the wrong stocks on it, just bad, didn't fit well. The only thing appropriate I had sitting around were these.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:25 AM
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Funny lookin' front sight...
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:17 AM
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What leads you to believe they are Roper sights?
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:08 AM
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Like Kevin said. I don't believe those are Roper Sights. But there is NO doubt about the stocks! Nice!!!!
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05CarbonDRZ View Post
Could be,They look Night and Day different to me.Maybe Sal had them oiled in the Pictures he took? Are You a Lefty Sal?
No, I'm not a lefty but 42 year old Sal Jr. is a lefty. At one time I purchased left handed anything, even a left handed Randall 1911 for Sal Jr. but he didn't like it, preferred the standard 1911.

I cringe when I find a set of Ropers that someone had obviously "cleared" over. I have a few pairs of vintage grips that had been cleared over. usually when I get a few, I chemically strip the clear. Murphy's oil soap with a soft brush. Depending on what the grips are ... I might sharpen the checkering a bit and then oil rub. If they are Ropers I'd send them to a professional.

I also have a few Keith Brown grips. The man is amazing. When I have a few thousand extra, I'd like to order 2 pairs for my New Model 3 targets.
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  #144  
Old 04-20-2016, 12:27 PM
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What leads you to believe they are Roper sights?
Because I'm dumb They aren't Roper sights.

Anyone have an idea who might have done them? I think maybe early fifties?
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:40 PM
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LOL well they do have a Roper look to them if that makes you feel better.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:26 PM
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LOL well they do have a Roper look to them if that makes you feel better.
Hah, yeah, I woke up and the live auction was happening and it was going for cheap, and I wasn't really awake. After really looking at it close..today and comparing it to every other roper sight picture I could find I realize my "mistake". Which isn't really a mistake at the price I got it. It's tight as a drum and has an amazing trigger, and the sights are quite nice even if they are pretty odd.

Just another gun to throw on the pile of "mystery gunsmith" guns that I own. It's kind of a fun niche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw View Post
No, I'm not a lefty but 42 year old Sal Jr. is a lefty. At one time I purchased left handed anything, even a left handed Randall 1911 for Sal Jr. but he didn't like it, preferred the standard 1911.

I cringe when I find a set of Ropers that someone had obviously "cleared" over. I have a few pairs of vintage grips that had been cleared over. usually when I get a few, I chemically strip the clear. Murphy's oil soap with a soft brush. Depending on what the grips are ... I might sharpen the checkering a bit and then oil rub. If they are Ropers I'd send them to a professional.

I also have a few Keith Brown grips. The man is amazing. When I have a few thousand extra, I'd like to order 2 pairs for my New Model 3 targets.
Fantastic to see you up and posting Sal!

You ever manage to take that picture you "owe" me? I think it would go very well in this thread.

Last edited by Modified; 04-20-2016 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 06-18-2016, 04:25 PM
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Found another set to add to the picture collection. These were on ebay the other day in an auction labeled Plastic or Bakelite grips. Fortunately for me no one else noticed that these were a funny looking kind of plastic:









Unfortunately they don't fit on any of my old 1911s because they all have lanyard rings. I brought these down to the gun shop and they fit on a Remington r1 centennial. The lovely thing is that they fit my hand perfectly, but no one else's down at the shop. I can't really believe my luck to have ended up with them without even a little fight on the auction, even if they are a little bit beat up.

I guess my next gun purchase will have to be a 1911, I'll have to start looking around for the proper old gun to put them on. That could take a while.
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Old 06-21-2016, 02:31 PM
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Sixgun,
Those are NOT ropers! Certainly are a plastic for sure!!

PS: Just send them to me and i will help you out and give you 20.00 more than you paid. I am just that kind of guy!
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:24 PM
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Police Positive Target model



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Old 08-14-2016, 03:25 PM
R.A. Rifleman R.A. Rifleman is offline
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My memory needs help. I seem to recall seeing a picture in the gallery of a revolver with what I thought were Roper stocks. What I particularly remember is that the butt was recessed for a lanyard ring. The problem is that I can't find the original picture in the gallery and none of the other pictures I have found look the same. The one I'm looking for seemed to have the entire bottom of the grip dished out for the ring, forming a nice concave shape. Does this ring any bells for anybody? I don't recall if it was supposed to be original.
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