Final Update: Rescuing a beat up 5-screw K38 - Zombie thread

[Bruce in WV]

I just closed on a 5 screw pre-14 K38 (SN K79,xxx) on Gunbroker for a pretty good price. It may actually be an acceptable 'shooter grade' gun as is, but I'd like to have it thoroughly checked over, repaired if necessary, replace the ringed barrel, and reblue it with a quality high polish finish. The goal is to create a quality wadcutter gun for club shoots. Is the factory Performance Center the best place to send it?

[M29since14]

Bruce - Shoot it before you do anything. That gun may not need anything other than the red paint removed from its front sight and a good set of target stocks, if that is what you prefer.

A ringed barrel is not a happy thing, but I have seen so many that shot just fine that I would not replace one until I knew it was necessary. I doubt you will find that it is. Really, if you want all that stuff done to the existing gun, it would probably be cheaper for you to just buy a gun that is already in that condition.

[Bruce in WV]

That's good advice to shoot it first. It may 'shoot straight' as is.

[pred]

I have a 25-2 that has a mild ring somewhere in the middle of the barrel, And at 45' the gun will group 1" on sand bags,
Get the pre 14 and shoot it before you make any judgements, It may just be the most accurate thing you have ever shot!
I would never rebarrel my 25-2!
Peter.

[Lee Barner]

bruce, i've got a ringed(barely visible) K-38 from 1948 that shoots right there with two others that are not ringed. give it a whirl before you spend any money on it. just make sure the action is safe, no push off etc. let us know how it turns out. lee

[Bruce in WV]

Zombie thread: this gun got lost in the safe until 3 weeks ago! I got it out and tested it with the classic 148gr/BE combo and various factory loads. It patterns like a shotgun - gonna have to rebarrel it, I guess. Oh well...
Anybody got a barrel for sale?

[RussellD]

Yes I have a 6" model 14 barrel in the parts box. Shoot me a pm and I will email you pics.

[shawn mccarver]

The factory probably does not have the barrel, but they are pretty easy to find. Send the barrel and the gun, ask them to fit the new barrel and go over it and bring it up to "as new" spec. They will do so in all respects except the finish. Were it me, while it was there, I would have it re-blued or re-finished in bead blast blue since it is going to be a shooter.

[824tsv]

For us Non Zombies who weren't around in 2008 when this thread started, how about posting some pic's so we can see the K-38 before it goes in for an overhaul. Not to hijack this thread, I just picked up a pre Model 14 from 1954 that is in shooter condition and would be interested to compare the two. This is mine:

[PMRet]

I was under the impression that the factory would not work on pre-model number guns. I would suggest contacting Dave Chicoine at Oldwestgunsmith.com as I believe the factory refers these older guns to him anyway.

[k22fan]

K78xxx likely has the early thin barrel with the top front corners of the frame beveled to blend with its skinny rib. A heavy Target Masterpiece (T M) or 14 barrel would be a conspicuous miss match. A skinny T M barrel might be hard to find.

I haven’t seen a picture of this zombie K-38 but it probably would be less expensive to sell it and buy a K-38 that you are happy with. How far from the muzzle is the bulge? In a current thread to get rid of a bulge near its muzzle a member shortened a shooter grade skinny barrel .22 T M to 5”. A question of K-22 ethics He shortened it himself and it looks nice.

[Bruce in WV]

These were the original pictures from the gunbroker ad - the red paint on the front sight is gone, but it otherwise looks pretty much the same. Cutting it to completely remove the ringed portion would give me 3" from the face of the cylinder and retain the yoke catch.

(pictures expired)

[k22fan]

It would be in vogue cut to 3” but the reduced sight radius would make it harder to win matches. It’s got the heavy barrel so other than finish any 14 barrel made before the full lug barrels would look right. I’d prefer it with the original brushed finish. That usually gets buffed to a bright blue during refinishing. On the other hand if you install a barrel that was made since the late 1950s it will be polished bright and reblueing would make the frame and barrel match.

If I’d bought it for match shooting I’d get the barrel replaced and nothing else except for a home trigger job. Major parts replacement will make it less than ideal for collectors whether or not it’s reblued. If I could find one I’d even go for a 6” FL or 8 3/8” non-FL barrel. Competitors like seeing improved guns.

[Bruce in WV]

k22fan: I would only cut the barrel if I can't find a replacement, but it remains an option. I would prefer to keep it at 6" or step up to 8 3/8" for club fun matches if I can find a barrel. It has a great trigger and is very tight, so no action work required. I will replace the grips with thumb rest models when I finally get the barrel work done, but that won't happen until I'm sure I have a target gun to put them on.

I bought it as a project gun, because its fun to fuss with getting 'em back up and running, so selling it "as is" is not in the cards.

Now, to find that elusive barrel...

[Jebus35745]

E-Bay has the bbl once in a while. It would definitely be a neat gun with a three inch bbl. Larry

[k22fan]

Use caution buying used barrels. While many are removed because some one wanted a different length bulged barrels are seldom thrown out. They get kept for show and tell, change hands then resold to the unwary.

[Bruce in WV]

Update: barrel inbound from private party. Will update when I have more info.
Update2: Master gunsmith gave the new barrel enthusiastic thumbs up. In the queue for installation. Thanks Russell!
Update3: I found a volunteer with excellent bullseye revolver credentials to assess the gun when the new barrel is installed. He will help me decide if it is a good candidate for a complete rebuild as a bullseye gun, or rebuild it to a lower standard as a high quality "shooter".
Update4: Got the gun back from the gunsmith with the new barrel mounted. Need to test it (see below for test report). Saved the "numbered" old barrel to cut it off and make a "3 inch switch barrel" option for future generations.

[Bruce in WV]

I had a nice time at the NRA HQ range last night. Met "rvlrlvr" from the Bullseye Forum (a highly qualified revolver competitor) and he gave me some advice about my K38 (and let me shoot his match gun and handloads - wohoo!) Thank you, sir, for the courtesy of meeting and giving me your informed opinion.
It seriously needs a full action job and shoots very high (top of a standard 25yd target paper) - needs either a higher front sight or higher rear sight blade to get standard BE loads into the X with a 6 o'clock hold (on the bottom edge of the black). Faster loads might also get the bullet strikes down into the target zone, but I want this gun to be for BE at 25 yds, so that's probably not the right solution.
I have to decide how to go forward. Higher (pinned) front sight seems to be a no-brainer since altering the rear sight is so much harder. Full action job is a question of getting it in line at a S&W specialist (have sent Bowen an email asking about their services). Then, test it again...

[jaykellogg]

Actually, I believe you need a lower rear sight. Is the rear screwed all the way down?

[Bruce in WV]

This thread returns to zombieland while the gun goes out for the required work. Thanks for your interest.

[k22fan]

Slow down.

If it hits high you need a taller front sight or a lower rear blade. Rear blade kits are less than $15 from S&W and blades are not hard to replace. Instructions are in 500 Magnum Nut’s FAQ in the S&W-smithing forum: FAQ's You can get by without buying a windage nut spanner or stakeing punch. You can file a small flat head to make your own spanner and use a small flat head or improvise a punch for staking. However a rear blade shorter than about .145”comes with a shallower notch. Going to a taller front is preferable to a shallow notch.

Most of us do our own action jobs. I like the results of mine better than the most expensive professional action job. The pros smooth the tail end of the DA pull so much that I can no longer feel the cylinder stop pop up resulting in a DA that is very difficult to stage. Consider doing your own. Jerry Mikiluks [? Spelling] action job video is good but there was plenty of equally good advise in print when I started shooting bullseye with revolvers in the 1970s. Apparently I haven’t gotten any smarter because I’m still at it.

[RussellD]

How was the accuracy with the replacement barrel?

[Bruce in WV]

Did not group well at 25 yards (3inches+). Probably not ammo, shooter is very expert (not me). Read the FAQ on sight height calculations, and re-test with different loads before changing front or rear blades.
This may be a quality 6" carry gun rather than a BE candidate. We'll see what gives after the action job.

[tlay]

If you want to try a different load before you change your sights, try a lighter bullet. These tend to go lower. Try a wadcutter that is downloaded.

[RussellD]

agreed some load development may solve many problems.

[Bruce in WV]

The Target Masterpiece has been mostly resurrected - just missing an extractor. The original was damaged at some time in the past by dry firing when the gun was out of time. There are deep firing pin dents in two of the 'teeth' , and they can't be fixed by stoning. The best solution appears to be a replacement extractor.
The Brownell's drawing labels the part as a new model extractor, but it sure looks like the one on the old K38!
Anyhow, I would appreciate suggestions where to find an extractor for the 5-screw K38.
Picture of the damaged extractor and current state of rebuilding:

[wvs&w]

Bruce,
I like the look, you may try Flat Top Arms, Beckley WV ask for Joel, a long time gunsmith in the area. (304) 255-9470

[Bruce in WV]

Good suggestion. I called today but Joel won't be in until Tuesday. I'll know more after speaking with him.
In the meanwhile I would ask members here to continue to offer suggestions for other sources in case Joel can't help me. This is turning into a very nice DAO-steel-fun match gun at a local club with 158gr SWC/3.5gr BE, but those damaged teeth make the cylinder hang up during the trigger stroke. I could live with it if I had to, but don't want to give up trying to finish the rebuild - its the last thing to get fixed.

[jw mathews]

Could you buy an extractor from S&W Parts Dept for a Model 14 (no dash) that would have the right-hand thread (same as on the "pre-14" K-38 revolvers)? If not, you could purchase a newer extractor with left-hand thread but you'd then need to buy a matching ejector rod also.

Just because the factory won't work on guns without model numbers does not mean that the factory doesn't have parts that will fit short-action revolvers made as far back as ca 1950.

[Tin]

Might want to give that ringed barrel a thorough cleaning as they dont want to shoot worth a hoot if badly leaded.., Happened to me on two pieces I acquired....,TIN...

[Bruce in WV]

"Could you buy an extractor from S&W Parts Dept for a Model 14 (no dash) that would have the right-hand thread (same as on the "pre-14" K-38 revolvers)? If not, you could purchase a newer extractor with left-hand thread but you'd then need to buy a matching ejector rod also.

Just because the factory won't work on guns without model numbers does not mean that the factory doesn't have parts that will fit short-action revolvers made as far back as ca 1950."

Great suggestion. I didn't know that there is another option than finding an original extractor. Thank you.

[Bruce in WV]

Got a PM with a suggestion to try a gun parts seller on ebay who has Victory model parts. If its right hand threaded, (Kuhnhausen says intermediate and older model S&Ws were RH threaded), it would probably be worth a try. I've asked the question about thread direction and price; we'll see how it works out.

[Bruce in WV]

Factory has no extractor or ejector parts from that era (or anything useful from the transition period), but did offer a couple of referrals for parts dealers and gunsmiths who specialize in fitting parts to older S&W's. That's a very nice thing to do, and part of good customer service. Thank you S&W service rep!
Meanwhile, (hopefully) success with the ebay parts dealer. There's a WWII Victory model 38 extractor with ejector star inbound (~$18, including shipping). Seller thinks it may work, with a little fitting. I should be getting it this Saturday and will take it to my gunsmith for an expert opinion.
If that fails, one of the specialist gunsmiths believes he can find the part and fit it. There is a 6-month backlog (no surprise with good gunsmiths), but at least I have a Plan B if the Victory part doesn't work.
Updates will follow.

[Bruce in WV]

WWII Victory extractor and gun went to gunsmith today to get the new star fitted and the gun timing adjusted (as required). 6-8 weeks in the queue and we'll see where we are...
Update when ready.

[Bruce in WV]

Having hard time removing the star to the K38. I have a thread on the gunsmithing forum asking for help.

Fitting WWII 38cal Victory extractor to K38?

[Art Doc]

Wow. You bought a gun planning to replace the barrel, do other repairs and refinish? Unless you got it for nearly free this will be a real loser financially. Sounds like you'll spend $400-$500 plus the purchase price to turn it into a $350 refinished gun.

It's your money and your gun...I'm just sayin' for whatever it's worth. I think you'd be much better off buying a better gun if that's what you wanted.

[Bruce in WV]

You're right. I went through this with an old Corvette, too. I like the process and am willing to pay to play. Different strokes and all that.

[Tin]

BRUCE IN WV...give that barrel a thorough cleaning before you scrap it if you haven't done so..., Most ringed barrels still shoot rather decently if cleaned... TIN..

[Bruce in WV]

Originally Posted by Tin

BRUCE IN WV...give that barrel a thorough cleaning before you scrap it if you haven't done so..., Most ringed barrels still shoot rather decently if cleaned... TIN..

It wouldn't shoot, no matter what we tried. It has gone to another member here who needed to salvage the removable front sight.

[Art Doc]

Hey, if you enjoy the process that's OK by me.

[Green Frog]

OK, if I read the headings correctly, you're nearly 6 years into the process. How about an overview of where you are in total? Has the barrel been replaced? Are you shooting the gun yet? Inquiring minds want to know!

Actually, I would love to have that gun today the way it was the day you bought it. I've got another "wild hair" project in the works and have bought a very early K-22 barrel and a K-22 cylinder assembly with the idea of reboring to 32 S&W Long... an homage to the elusive first K-32s of the late '40s. The hunt continues!

Regards,
Froggie

[glowe]

Originally Posted by Tin

BRUCE IN WV...You're right. I went through this with an old Corvette, too. I like the process and am willing to pay to play. Different strokes and all that. TIN..

A friend of mine started work on a GTO Judge about 5 years ago. He now has $50,000 into the car and it is still not done. His take on life is that if he did not do it, the car would have been junked after being totally stripped of useable parts. He wants it brought back from the dead at any cost. I like the idea of bringing back a S&W lost cause because it will live for another generation to enjoy. Keep is long enough and you will get your investment back!

[bgrafsr]

Those are not FP indents on the extractor ratchets. More than likely there was a problem getting the cylinder to "carry up" on those two chambers, so whomever used a punch to move metal on the ratchets to try and get "carry up" for those two chambers, but he moved metal at the wrong place on the ratchets.

[Bruce in WV]

Originally Posted by bgrafsr

Those are not FP indents on the extractor ratchets. More than likely there was a problem getting the cylinder to "carry up" on those two chambers, so whomever used a punch to move metal on the ratchets to try and get "carry up" for those two chambers, but he moved metal at the wrong place on the ratchets.

The gunsmith agrees with you - and I learned something interesting along the way.

It got "lost" in the back of safe for a few years, but resurrected last year and put on the "to do" list. I replaced the barrel, refinished it, put nice American Holly target grips on it, and did a full action job (minus this fine tuning because we didn't have the part yet). We're at the point of having a nice fun gun that has the potential becoming almost perfect when we replace and fit a replacement star. It will be a gun for my son and g'children to enjoy long after I'm gone. Whatever money I spend now won't matter to them, but having a really nice K38 that I left them will be priceless.

[Bruce in WV]

I picked up the K38 at the gunsmith (and probably made his truck payment for him) and it is up and running! He re-used an old star assembly sent me by a very generous forum member and a new ejection rod. We also replaced the main spring and trigger return spring to correct a light strike problem and failure of the trigger to fully return to full forward.
It cycles great with no hitch in the trigger stroke. I'm taking it to the range Saturday or Sunday to run it on the steel range for a full speed function test under normal recoil but expect no problems.

Update: I had a day at the range - and couldn't be more delighted! Not a hiccup and accurate as a laser. I'm afraid to show it to the fellow who tested it for me before all the work began: he's a Distinguished Revolver-rated shooter and will try to talk me out of it.

[glowe]

To each his own, BUT I think you turned a $600 gun into a $400 gun and spent a fortune in the process. I guess I had no idea how nice the 65+ year old K38 was in the first place.

[bananaman]

There is a cool factor, but would rather have the beautiful blue Smith finish! I think that blue revolvers look better than stainless. Stainless is more forgiving. A good nickel finish is stunning. ( never owned one) What is the source of the grips? I really like them. I have a 14-3, from 1977. Bob

[Bruce in WV]

Originally Posted by bananaman

What is the source of the grips? I really like them.

Grips are American Holly from Kurac (on this forum).

[BruceHMX]

Oh ok. That gun did not look that bad to start

[tennexplorer]

It's alive! Congratulations! Take it and shoot the heck out of it.