M&P and Safety Hammerless questions

Landpimp · #1 10-02-2007, 04:18 PM

Got a pair of old S&W, few questions as to what I have, dates, value, etc.

Sorry my gun pic skills are not the best.

the 1st is a M&P 38s special, nickel, 4", it should be a 1905 4th change, but has some features of the 3rd. Also in the book it says the square butt on a K frame with fixed sights is scarce, is this correct? serial # is 255104

the finish I think is origial and is pretty good shape, all #'s match on barrel, cylinder and bottom of grip. I know the grips are not orignal

next is a Safety Hamerless 38 SW, I "think" its a 4th model, almost sure its been refinished. Grips I think are orignal. Serial # is 194905

Sorry my 1st real post is a "what do I have" question

I am a bit better with the newer stuff.

The M&P was a a police evidence gun, the Safety Hamerless came from a gal in my office, it was her fathers and she just wanted it out to the house. I have shot them both, they both shoot great.

thanks
John

Landpimp · #2 10-02-2007, 04:18 PM

Got a pair of old S&W, few questions as to what I have, dates, value, etc.

Sorry my gun pic skills are not the best.

the 1st is a M&P 38s special, nickel, 4", it should be a 1905 4th change, but has some features of the 3rd. Also in the book it says the square butt on a K frame with fixed sights is scarce, is this correct? serial # is 255104

the finish I think is origial and is pretty good shape, all #'s match on barrel, cylinder and bottom of grip. I know the grips are not orignal

next is a Safety Hamerless 38 SW, I "think" its a 4th model, almost sure its been refinished. Grips I think are orignal. Serial # is 194905

Sorry my 1st real post is a "what do I have" question

I am a bit better with the newer stuff.

The M&P was a a police evidence gun, the Safety Hamerless came from a gal in my office, it was her fathers and she just wanted it out to the house. I have shot them both, they both shoot great.

thanks
John

JayCeeNC · #3 10-02-2007, 04:31 PM

Both look to be in nice shape. I like the S&W medallion mother-of-pearl grips on the hammerless.
I have an M&P 4th Change, serial# 284704, shipped in June, 1918, if that helps in referencing a time frame for your lower serial number.
The square butt is not scarce, that was a mistake in Nahas and Supica's SCSW 3rd. Ed. Here is a list of corrected text on Jim Supica's Old Town Station website: SCSW 3rd. Ed. Corrections

Landpimp · #4 10-03-2007, 10:26 AM

they are both in nice shape, some minor finish issue with the M&P but for almost 100 years old...its pretty darn nice.

I don't see the change(scarce) is updated in the update, but maybe I missed it.

yeah those MOP grips are neat, guessing orginal...might be worth something? (not that I am good sellin, better at hoarding)

anything else anyone can tell me....I like to learn

Quote:

Originally posted by JayCeeNC:
Both look to be in nice shape. I like the S&W medallion mother-of-pearl grips on the hammerless.
I have an M&P 4th Change, serial# 284704, shipped in June, 1918, if that helps in referencing a time frame for your lower serial number.
The square butt is not scarce, that was a mistake in Nahas and Supica's SCSW 3rd. Ed. Here is a list of corrected text on Jim Supica's Old Town Station website: SCSW 3rd. Ed. Corrections

km371 · #5 10-04-2007, 01:27 AM

Nice M&P.I dig the nickel.Your serial puts it about 1917. I had always read that the Patent markings on the side of the barrel meant a 1910-1913 3rd change revolver. If all the numbers match, it may have been a barrel that they had lying around for some years,as this serial number is quite late to see this style of roll marking on the barrel.
S&W ever wasted any good parts of they could help it,so maybe this was the case after all..
In my opinion, this little variation is what make collecting M&P's so much fun.

dinghysailer · #6 10-04-2007, 04:06 AM

My #2428xx shipped on 8/16/1915, has the same roll marks on both sides of the 4" barrel and the letter says its a 1905 fourth change. My recollection is that S&W started putting the patent roll stamp on the side of 4" barrels when they switched to the shouldered barrel, not leaving enough space between the shoulder and the front sight to fit on the top of the barrel. Eventually the redid the roll stamp.

I doubt the MOP grips on the M&P are factory. If the were they would have had gold medallions like the ones on your safety hammerless.

Landpimp · #7 10-04-2007, 07:08 AM

thanks, thats the info I was looking for on the M&P, really dig that gun.

Oh, I know the MOP on the M&P are not correct or S&W, its the ones on the Safety Hamerless I thought were the real deal.

I did find the correct wood grips for the M&P last night.

Quote:

Originally posted by dinghysailer:
My #2428xx shipped on 8/16/1915, has the same roll marks on both sides of the 4" barrel and the letter says its a 1905 fourth change. My recollection is that S&W started putting the patent roll stamp on the side of 4" barrels when they switched to the shouldered barrel, not leaving enough space between the shoulder and the front sight to fit on the top of the barrel. Eventually the redid the roll stamp.

I doubt the MOP grips on the M&P are factory. If the were they would have had gold medallions like the ones on your safety hammerless.

H Richard · #8 10-04-2007, 08:21 AM

Two nice looking pieces, but both appear to have been refinished by a non-S&W source. The M&P looks to have the trigger & hammer nickled, unless it is light reflection, should be case hardened. The trigger on the Safety looks definitely nickled, and S&W would not have done that. Originally they would have been case hardened.

Landpimp · #9 10-04-2007, 04:46 PM

the M&P has the case hardened trigger/hammer, its just the reflection........ie ****** pics

correct on the SH, also the S&W logo was ground down it apears.

Quote:

Originally posted by H Richard:
Two nice looking pieces, but both appear to have been refinished by a non-S&W source. The M&P looks to have the trigger & hammer nickled, unless it is light reflection, should be case hardened. The trigger on the Safety looks definitely nickled, and S&W would not have done that. Originally they would have been case hardened.

mm6mm6 · #10 10-04-2007, 08:06 PM

Both guns are wonderful. The mother of pearl handles on the little guy with the factory medallions are very, very valuable. I saw a set sell a few years ago on Ebay for well over $300. I have a set as well that I lucked into. The gun was horrible, but the handles were perfect. It's very hard to find originals without chips or cracks. I used a little dab of Brasso on the medallions to brighten them up. Then I found a nice little breaktop to put them on.