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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 01-11-2008, 09:11 PM
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Are there any videos available featuring Ed McGivern? The man was awesome, to say the least.

I just got a copy of his book "Ed McGivern's book on Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting". Mine's a 1946 copy. I haven't read it through yet, but kind of skimmed here and there. I really like his methods and his approach to teaching fast draw, hip shooting, and police/defensive shooting. Do what comes natural, and work on that and refine it.
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:11 PM
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Are there any videos available featuring Ed McGivern? The man was awesome, to say the least.

I just got a copy of his book "Ed McGivern's book on Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting". Mine's a 1946 copy. I haven't read it through yet, but kind of skimmed here and there. I really like his methods and his approach to teaching fast draw, hip shooting, and police/defensive shooting. Do what comes natural, and work on that and refine it.
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:14 PM
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I've seen some video of him on The History Channel along with some other "trick" shooters such as the Topperweins.
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:32 PM
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There's one called "Fast and Fancy Shooters" that has McGivern, Bill Jordan, Herb Parsons, and others on it. Google should be able to find it.
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:40 PM
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I shall do that. Thank you!

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Old 01-12-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
There's one called "Fast and Fancy Shooters" that has McGivern, Bill Jordan, Herb Parsons, and others on it. Google should be able to find it.
I have that one, there isn't a lot of Ed McGivern on it but it is still worth buying.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:47 AM
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It's kind of interesting to me when I see young people (I say "young" with confidence even tho' I don't know you as I am "older than dirt"(:>))just discovering this book (Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting). When I was a teen ager, I studied that book as a "Text Book" and worked on my gun handling skills, long term (fast draw with live ammo, long range shooting, and aerial shooting). That book is responsible for me becoming a pretty decent "All Around" handgunner. The very first IPSC match I shot in (while competing against two of the top ten IPSC shooters in the world) I was placed in Class "A" and stayed in Class "A" for the next five years that I competed in IPSC. If you CAREFULLY apply the principles as outlined specifically, there, you TOO can become a decent all around handgun shot.

"Highly Recommended"...

Dale53
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Old 01-13-2008, 03:14 PM
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I’m always impressed to come across guys who have actually read …Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. While no doubt he was as fast, fancy, and accurate as they come, he was a gawdawful writer, never saying in six words what he could say in 138.

I’ve tried, but I’ve not yet been able to read that book…
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:16 PM
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Onomea;
This book was NOT written for entertainment. It merely chronicles the "scientific" investigation of gun handling, with the view of instructing the law enforcement and respectable civilian community in what is possible with a handgun.

He did this. His feats, one and all, were done in front of God and everyone. No shooting with the typewriter, just working hard until it could be done on command and then putting it down on paper, as best he could, so that the target audience could make use of the information so painfully gained through hard work.

He succeeded.

So, don't look at it as a "good read", look at it as a source of REAL information and, if you are so inclined, make use of it.

FWIW
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:08 PM
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I agree with Arlo--the book is all but unreadable and I do not believe that informative, even technical writing, need be boring. McGivern's "work" was not free from controversy in his day. I don't mean to diminish his accomplishments but there were plenty of other shooters in his time that doubted his complete veracity.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:27 PM
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Ol' Ed wasn't as wordy as say, Immanuel Kant... but he gave him a run for the money.


There are some gems in Fast and Fancy, but you have to sort through a lot of gravel to find them.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:10 PM
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I love the book myself, but have to agree with the readability problem. It is the only book I have ever used a highlighter in. It is like reading the King James Version of the Holy Bible.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:38 AM
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Mr. McGivern's book is well worth getting.
However, he is not one of America's best writers. If you read four of five pages from his chapter on "psychology" aloud right before a cookout, you will kill every flying and stinging insect within 500 yards.
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:30 PM
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What? Mike didn't chime in on a title of McGivern? Anyone got a parka to loan? I think Hell just froze over.

Wait...I gotta go out and buy a lotto ticket NOW.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:40 PM
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Skeeter Skelton described McGivern's writing style as "rambling" and he described the photo reproductions as "mediocre", and any writer's assertion and veracity are subject to challenge, but the book is a gold mine of information, and I suspect that for a long time it was THE book on the subject. And when I got my copy of "No Second Place Winner" (never got an autographed one, alas) I was chagrined at its
slimness, though as Bill Jordan said "I may want to write another book." I had the opportunity to read an orginal copy years ago,
I look on old books as time machines, found myself visiting the 1930s and envying his access to all those old 5 screws and pre war Colts. "Somewhere" I have my 1972 vintage S.D. Myers catalog showing holsters in the same style
McGivern used. (never did get around to ordering one.) Besides in that pre internet, pre
home computer, pre CD, pre TV era people liked their books thicker.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:10 PM
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No - nothing froze over, yet. It looked like the topic was more about McGivern's writing
and so-forth, so I didn't have anything to add.

However, I do have a couple of interesting pieces. They both relate to some shooting
he did in late 1932. The first is a letter attesting to the demonstation:



and the second is the pair of targets that he shot simultaneously :



I found this very interesting, because I was always under the impression that, following the
record-setting with his first gun, he gave it to Doug Wesson, who then gave him the second
gun. I assumed that he only had one gun at a time.

This demonstation involved using both of the historic guns on the same day. Better yet, they
were both being shot simultaneously - one in each hand. This was very impressive.

Later, Mike Priwer
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:48 PM
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Besides being a crack rifle shot (Navy Rifle Team and Underwater Demolotion Team member.) My father used to regale us with stories of Ed McGivern's "5 shots in 9/20 of a second, thus 'chewing the center' out of the ace of spades at 15 feet!" Not bad for a sawed-off Montana sherriff!

From what dad told me, the man was a gentle self-effacing soul that carried out hes Law Enforcement duties with a kind demeanor, unless the situation dicatated otherwise.

We really need more men such as this in today's Law Enforcement. Perhaps we could "turn the tide" of some misguided youths! They might just learn that death is absolute. There's no glory in being stupid and dead... Your'e just dead. If you died because you were stupid, few people, if any, cared why... You're still dead!

Scott
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Old 01-18-2008, 12:08 PM
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Mr. McGivern may have been "wordy" in his writing, but he comes across as a really nice, easy-going individual, which I like.
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Old 01-18-2008, 01:02 PM
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The critics here are missing the point: Ed didn't have to write a book at all. He could have kept it all to himself, but he didn't.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:53 PM
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That's sure some shootin' there, Mike. Thanks for the post.

I'm glad McGivern wrote the book. I think he was an incredible shooter, and it is a fine thing he wrote the book to pass on what he had learned. I hope he made some money out of it, too, inasmuch as I doubt he was a wealthy man and probably, like the rest of us, needed the bucks.

And we're sittin' around talking about his book 70 years after he published it, which is more than can be said of most books.

But I don't think it speaks ill of a shooting legend to note he we was bad writer. I bet Pavarotti was a lousy basketball player, too, but the man sure could sing.
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Old 01-18-2008, 05:49 PM
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keithpip, You are 100% correct on that. My English Composition professor always said 'write how you talk', which I always thought Mr. McGivern either talked this way or didn't have an English Composition professor.

The greatest shooters weren't writers and if there was a book written about or by them it usually wasn't about what they knew but rather what they did. There have been many writers who claimed to be something they weren't but are famous because they know how to write in a way to get your attention. People like Delf Bryce, Vern Miller and a host of 19th century gunmen were too busy leading their exciting lives and didn't have time to write training manuals for us 21st century couch potatoes.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:52 AM
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No video but these might be of interest. I got the photos from an old fellow in Lewiston, Mt that used to do leather work for Ed.
I have to agree with his book being difficult to read and it is wordy but when authors are paid so many cents per word they tend to work overtime.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:21 AM
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Yes, it is difficult to read. I suspect that was the style used when he learned to write (probably in high school). Some other folks have mentioned that other gun writers had a similar style. Consider that he was born in 1874...which means he was in high school in early the 1890's!

HOWEVER, MOST OF THE TACTICAL INFORMATION THAT YOU'LL SEE IN GUN SCHOOLS TODAY IS INCLUDED IN THIS BOOK IN SOME FORM. Sometimes the details are sketchy, but he does mention it. There are even pictures of drive-by shooting practice!

By the way, I took up revolver shooting last year because my dad is a revolver shooter. He was having trouble and I wanted to help him out. My double action groups with his S&W 617 were averaging around four inches in diameter. I noodled through FaFRS, found his "shooting procedure" and rigorously practiced it. My group size dropped to half an inch to one and a half inches within 200 rounds on my next session!

So, yeah, this book is good in spite of the writing style.
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Old 01-29-2017, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onomea View Post
I’m always impressed to come across guys who have actually read …Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. While no doubt he was as fast, fancy, and accurate as they come, he was a gawdawful writer, never saying in six words what he could say in 138.

I’ve tried, but I’ve not yet been able to read that book…
That's a fact. I've read it AND studied it. Still go back and refer to it but it's a fact.

It is NOT what I'd call entertainment.
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:29 PM
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Gunfan: Nowhere in my reading about Es McGivern have I come across anything that indicated he was a law enforcement officer. I have read that he was a sign painter before he became well known for his shooting feats.
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:33 PM
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onomea View Post
I’m always impressed to come across guys who have actually read …Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. While no doubt he was as fast, fancy, and accurate as they come, he was a gawdawful writer, never saying in six words what he could say in 138.

I’ve tried, but I’ve not yet been able to read that book…
............I have it.........Me too..........
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Old 01-30-2017, 12:39 AM
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Hi
I am the owner of two of EDs revolvers one a Target 38 special that was used to train the Lewistown Police shooting team. The other is a K-22 that was given by Ed to a friend of his I got the revolver from the mans granddaughter. I also got the box and the extra set of grips that Ed gave with the revolver. Ed was a great man and a great shooter. His world record still stands 5 shots in 2/5 of a second.
read the letter and it will give you a idea about the man. I was able to visit with Ed,s
Grand son before he died, it was great to talking to him, he was a police man in ohio, his daughter is a Sky Marshal.

Jim Fisher
The target that Mike posted is the worlds record target.










This is the revolver that was used for police training my Ed. Ed gave this revolver to one of the men on the shooting team, and he used it until he retired from the department.

See letter below





Last edited by bmg60; 01-30-2017 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 01-30-2017, 12:41 AM
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Yes, there is video of McGivern on a tape done by Col. Rex Applegate, I believe, which is called Fast and Fancy Shooters or something like that. The tape has McGivern, Bill Jordan giving his shooting and fast draw demonstration, Herb Parsons, and one or two others, I think.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:03 AM
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A few years ago I was at a gun shop outside of Seattle called LYNWOOD GUNS and there was a group of guys discussing Ed McGivern.
An older gentleman walked in and overheard the conversation and began to get very anxious and excited.

He left the shop and came back a short time later with a very large old binder packed full of papers. He plopped the book on the counter and began to explain......

He said he had once been a target thrower and assistant for Ed many, many years back. He had saved hundreds of pages of targets and various documents from Ed. He also said that some of the stuff Ed did was truly unbelievable, in fact, many did not believe it at all even when they saw it with their own eyes.

Not sure what happened to the old guy and his treasure book, but I sure wished that I would have gotten to know the fella.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:14 AM
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Yes, I have a copy & also found it hard to read. I also have Elmers book "Sixguns" where Mc Givern is mentioned. Elmer met & liked him. Tried some of McGiverrn's shooting tricks. Interesting, to say the least.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
No shooting with the typewriter....
What is this "typewriter" you speak of...???
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenwolde View Post
What is this "typewriter" you speak of...???
glenwolde;
Thanks for the laugh! That may have made my day😁👍👍👍.

Dale53
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