The following picture is the front end of a B25 - used extensively in WW2.



This is the nose-gunners station, and within it is the basis for the phrase

"the whole 9 yards"

This from a living B25 nosegunner himself (his name is Richard ) :

Hi Richard,

Regarding your discussion of the B-25 today, have you read the article titled "Ike at D-Day" in the December 2007 issue of Smithsonian magazine?

Here is a quote from that article:

The belts of .50-caliber ammunition for the heavy machine guns of the American bombers were 27 feet long (whence the expression "the whole nine yards").

Can you confirm that that is the origin of the expression 'the whole nine yards'?
Keep up the WW II stories.

Jerry

Richard Comment -- It's true. Often heard, "Yeah, I got rid of it, the whole nine yards."

The following picture is the front end of a B25 - used extensively in WW2.



This is the nose-gunners station, and within it is the basis for the phrase

"the whole 9 yards"

This from a living B25 nosegunner himself (his name is Richard ) :

Hi Richard,

Regarding your discussion of the B-25 today, have you read the article titled "Ike at D-Day" in the December 2007 issue of Smithsonian magazine?

Here is a quote from that article:

The belts of .50-caliber ammunition for the heavy machine guns of the American bombers were 27 feet long (whence the expression "the whole nine yards").

Can you confirm that that is the origin of the expression 'the whole nine yards'?
Keep up the WW II stories.

Jerry

Richard Comment -- It's true. Often heard, "Yeah, I got rid of it, the whole nine yards."

I was under the impression that "the whole 9 yards" expression originated from the concrete delivery trucks which when full hold 9 cubic yards.

Here is some internet info, there is plenty out there but nothing concrete it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whole_9_Yards

That's some serious buisness happening on the front of that airplane. I wasn't aware that there were also guns on the sides of the fuselage. Formidable looking.
DW

__________________
"NUTS"

It used to mean buying the whole bolt of cloth, 9 yards long. But I do LOVE the Mitchell, especially the Pacific theatre Pappy Gunn specials.

__________________
Always bet on stupidity.

Love those B-25's. Here's a pic I took of a B-25 at the Gathering of Legends in September.
Note the twin 50's

__________________
OGCA Member.

DW,

Check out the -J Model with 8 more .50 BMGs:

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaver...25/b25-014.jpg

http://www.photovault.com/show.php?cat=Military/AirForc...lume15/MYFV15P11_14B

But for some really heave firepower, the -G & -H models packed a 75mm Cannon in addition to up to 4 .50s'

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaver.../b25osh-40.jpg

Hate to be on the wrong end of that....

The fellow who posted the first picture is well-known in many circles. He enlisted
right after the War started, and was the bombadier on many missions. He writes a daily
market commentary, and on occasion includes some of his WW2 stories. As he was talking
about the picture, he mentioned the Norden bomb sight, that was his responsibility. This
was a very sophisticated piece of equipment. When it was activated, on a bombing run,
it took over control of the airplane. The pilot let go of the controls, and the bombing
officer ran the flight, via the Norden sight.

Apparently there were several versions of this plane. The one in the picture has two extra
side-mounted machine guns.

Later, Mike Priwer

There were indeed sevral versions of the B-25. Those with a brace of .50's on each side of the fuselage and sometimes, additional guns in the nose, were used to strafe ground targets and Jap ships.

Some had tail guns; some didn't. Some had waist guns. All that I've seen had a dorsal turret with two .50's, and the bombadier had a .30 and a .50 in those with conventional Plexiglass noses. I don't think the solid nosed ones used a separate bombadier (sp?).

A friend of mine's dad (his dad is a friend also) spent world war II flying these. Since they built them in Kansas City his job was to test fly new planes. He would check them out, trim them and aim the guns.

Pretty good wartime duty. He was around lots of women during this time also.

One of many behind the scenes heros that helped win the war.

__________________
To be a rock and not to roll

Small footnote:The Norden bomb site was manufactured by the National Cash Register Company.

Mike, Interesting thread, but I keep waiting for the connection with 1945 and earlier S&W revolvers? Are you holding out some great gem of S&W trivia that connects "whole 9 yards" with target Models, or?? -- I fired 1,000s of rounds of .50 BMG rounds out of ammo cans that held a 9ft. belt, but I had four 50 cal BMGs in my turret, so I had the "whole 12 yards!" Ed.

Ed

A connection to S&W pre-1945 ? No - there is no connection. Why do you ask ?

Regards, Mike Priwer

opoefc
B-25 crews carried Victory Models in there planes, in fact many Zero's were being shot down with Victory Models after crews ran out of of ammo for the 50 cal BMG. Damn fine shot's too.

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OGCA Member.

I suspect that this was a facetious post, but a B-17 gunner who had run out of .50 cal ammo DID shoot down an ME-109 with an S&W .38, maybe or maybe not a Victory Model.

Anything could happen, but aircrews from the Army Air Force normally carried .45 autos. Those Victory Models went mainly to Navy and Marine crews. But some Army crew members carried personally owned guns. (THe USAF did not emerge from the Army until 1947.)

That said, this wonderful thread probably does belong in The Lounge...


T-Star

Mike, The reason I asked is because this thread is posted in the "S&W 1857-1945" catagory. (At least on my screen when I pull up that catagory). I assume it is a thread that should be in the lounge section, perhaps? Not that I object, I am a .50BMG lover from the days when Uncle Sam paid me to use it. Did I miss something? Ed.

Ed

No - I was just kidding you.

Personally, I don't care for the lounge section on this forum. It fills up
so quickly, even in one day, with topics not even related to firearms, much less
S&W's . A year or so ago, there was a thread about keeping snakes out of the
house. It was a fun thread to read, but when a lot of those appear, it makes
it difficult for a reader to find things that relate to guns. Just a personal
feeling.

More to the point, this thread is about pre-WW2 firearms - massive ones, but
still pre-WW2; actually WW2. This section - 1857 to 1945 - regularly, at
least once a week, has a referece to a Colt, or a Hi-Standard, or something
other non-S&W arm. Admittedly the whole thread is not focused on that, but
there is plenty of mention of non S&W guns.

The members who post on this 1857 to 1945 section seem to have an interest
in earlier guns, and the armaments on the B25 are definitely earlier guns.
It seemed to me that , while not a S&W, this was a good place to tell this
story. After all, it came from a very well-known La Jolla market commentator;
what does this have to do with the markets ? Nothing, but a lot of the
subscribers found, and find, it very interesting.

So - I don't have any qualms about posting it here. If the consensus is
to take it down, then fine - take it down. The last thing I would want to
see is for this to turn into an event like what we had with the two S&WCA sites.

Later, Mike Priwer

No big deal it's just pre 1945 Brownings.

__________________
To be a rock and not to roll