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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 06-19-2008, 07:25 PM
Jolly Bill Jolly Bill is offline
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The Standard Catalog S&W, 2nd edition refers to the early production .22 Outdoorsman having a single screw rear sight.

If I'm successful, there will be a picture of the top of my somewhat early 22 Outdoorsman, SN 63608X, showing the rear sight having two screws.

Which screw is present for the single screw variation?

Thanks for your input.

Jolly

[URL= ][IMG]
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:25 PM
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The Standard Catalog S&W, 2nd edition refers to the early production .22 Outdoorsman having a single screw rear sight.

If I'm successful, there will be a picture of the top of my somewhat early 22 Outdoorsman, SN 63608X, showing the rear sight having two screws.

Which screw is present for the single screw variation?

Thanks for your input.

Jolly

[URL= ][IMG]
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:36 PM
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JB:
Actually, you have the one screw sight. The two screw sight has two near the sight blade (on the right side of your pic). You don't count the one at the far end of the sight base.
Ed
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:55 PM
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Ed,

Thanks very much for your note and clarification.

So that would be considered the one screw variation. I guess that's good.

Jolly
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:39 PM
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Two-screw rear sight:

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Old 06-19-2008, 09:43 PM
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I've been gathering info on 1st model variations and my little database show #646,8xx with a 1 screw rear sight and shipping 06/34.
My next entry, #647,6xx is shown with a 2 screw rear sight but I don't have a shipping date for it. #649,8xx is a 2 screw shipped in 04/35.

I'm still interested in recording any and all 1st model variations (sights, stocks, beads, hammers, serials and shipping dates if possible.
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:06 AM
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Dean, I have 2 1st models to contribute:
#644,4XX 1 screw rear sight,ship date unk.
#679,4XX 2 screw rear sight,HBH,ship date 11/30/39.
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:15 AM
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We've been studying that for a few years now. It seems that all the guns with numbers lower than 640,000s have the early sight, all the ones over 650,000 have the newer sight. That leaves the ones in hte 640,000s in questions.

Like so many production improvements S&W made, they didn't all come at once. We've seen some with lower numbers that have the newer sight assembly, some with higher that have the older one. Which leads us to the conclusion that you can't depend on all the hard and fast rules we'd like to make. S&W was in the business of pushing guns out the door. They completed guns with the parts they had on hand.
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rburg:
We've been studying that for a few years now. It seems that all the guns with numbers lower than 640,000s have the early sight, all the ones over 650,000 have the newer sight. That leaves the ones in hte 640,000s in questions.

Like so many production improvements S&W made, they didn't all come at once. We've seen some with lower numbers that have the newer sight assembly, some with higher that have the older one. Which leads us to the conclusion that you can't depend on all the hard and fast rules we'd like to make. S&W was in the business of pushing guns out the door. They completed guns with the parts they had on hand.

I pulled out my 22 Outdoorsman revolvers in the 640,000 range:

642908 shiipoed June 1932 has a 1 screw sight

647607 shipped in August 1934 has a 2 screw sight

649846 shipped in November 1935 has a 2 screw sight

So it is probable (if such can be said for S&W) that the change tood affect between 642xxx and 647xxx
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:25 AM
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6452xx - Date unknown
ONE screw
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:33 AM
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Gary, thanks for the info. I know Dick is right in that S&W didn't do anything in serial number order and nice clean breaks between variations are something one can only dream of, but, so far my database shows a somewhat clean break between serial numbers 646,8xx (1 screw) and 647,607 (2 screw). All 1 screw up to and including 646,8xx and all 2 screw after and including 647,607.

FWIW................
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:51 AM
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Dean, the picture I posted above is my only pre-war .22 Outdoorsman, and may add to the validation of your "clean break" theory.

2-screw rear sight
Serial# 647630
"Call" gold bead front sight
Shipped July, 1934, per Mr. Jinks reply on S&WCA Forum; not lettered.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:39 AM
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John,
I already had yours on the DB. You apparently asked Roy for the ship date since I added it as I didn't have the date. Thanks!
One thing that is a little unusual on your K-22 is the Gold Bead front sight. My database shows the Call Gold being discontinued in late 1931 in the ~638,xxx serial range. Your's kind of stands out as being out of sequence. Possibly a special order? Might be worth a letter.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:27 AM
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Hi Dean - 2 more for your database:

s/n 6347XX shipped June 23, 1931 w/Gold Call Front Sight - 1 Screw rear sight & S&W Grip Adapter

s/n 6594XX, ship unknown - 2 Screw rear Sight
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:45 AM
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Dean-
Gun I posted above,
I forgot- has a Stainless call bead.

6452xx - Date unknown
ONE screw
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:47 AM
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bh,
Thanks for the info.
Question on your 634,7xx. I have 634,815 that shipped on the same day as yours. (06/23/31). Mine went to R.S Marshall Co. Lynn,OH. Yours?
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadin:
John,
One thing that is a little unusual on your K-22 is the Gold Bead front sight. My database shows the Call Gold being discontinued in late 1931 in the ~638,xxx serial range. Your's kind of stands out as being out of sequence. Possibly a special order? Might be worth a letter.
Dean, I didn't letter it when I got it, now Roy is so far backlogged I don't want to burden him. Anyway, here's a pic of the bead:

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Old 06-20-2008, 10:07 AM
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Yep, that's definitely a Call Gold.
As for Roy being backlogged, the gun's not going anywhere (is it?), so what's the hurry.

Of course there's always the possibility that it was swapped out later, but I don't see any signs of the pin being messed with. (At least from the left side. How's the right side?))
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:36 AM
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I HAVE #6533XX CALL GOLD BEAD.ROY TOLD ME IT WAS 1938 BY PHONE SOME YEARS ago.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:53 AM
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Boy! That one's really out of order! I show the 653,xxx's as shipping circ. 1935. Not necessarily in month order, but at least year order. Also, other than JayCeeNC's Call Gold in 1934, all the other golds died out in 1931.
Just goes to show that there's always exceptions. (I wonder how far back in the vault that one fell into a crack? )
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:04 PM
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it does have 2 rear screws
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:24 PM
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That's about right. It appears that they shifted to the 2 screw rear sight in mid 1934.
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:33 PM
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Nothing out of line here: 67437, 2 screws, Call stainless bead front sight. -S2
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadin:
Of course there's always the possibility that it was swapped out later, but I don't see any signs of the pin being messed with. (At least from the left side. How's the right side?))
Dean, as I said I have not lettered it, so don't know if it "letters" with the bead or not. The gun is in deep storage as I'm apt to bug outta here any day but I don't recall anything unusual about the right side pins. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:16 AM
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Hi Dean;
Mine was sent to Edward K. Tyron Company in Philadelphia, PA. I bought this K-22 in Trenton, NJ in 1978, so it didn't stray far from home. Thanks for Asking. It'll be displayed at the upcomming Sturbrige show.

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Old 06-21-2008, 07:16 AM
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Dean
6468xx with 2 screws and a silver bead shipped 7-11-1934.

Tom
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:32 AM
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Tom,
I think I already have yours listed from a previous request. Just to double check, 2 screws at the rear of the sight (three in all) or two in all? I have it down as a 1 screw model, but I could have made a mistake when entering the data. In any case, it's either the lastest 1 screw or earliest 2 screw I have on my database at this time.

Thanks again,
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadin:

I already had yours on the DB.
Dean,
If you have a data base going, I have a 2-screw rear sight #679,3xx.
email me for specifics if you wish.
Terry
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:41 AM
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We're back to symantics again. I try to avoid talking about the number of screws just because of the issues we've raised here. Maybe a better term is "early" and "late" to describe them, or go to the trouble of explaining "2 hold downs, one adjuster" vs. "one hold down, one adjuster."
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rburg:
Maybe a better term is "early" and "late" to describe them, or go to the trouble of explaining "2 hold downs, one adjuster" vs. "one hold down, one adjuster."
Well, if it only has one screw then it must be a "Pre-Two Screw" model.
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:16 PM
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644806, 1 screw sight and silver Call bead. Shipping date unknown.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Shipping date unknown.
Thanks for the info. Your gun probably shipped last half 1932 or first half 1933. Only a letter will tell for sure.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:58 PM
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A Little late in this thread but, I just picked up 6377xx with 1 rear screw and gold front bead. Ship date unknown at this time.
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Old 09-04-2008, 06:11 AM
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Thanks for the info. 637,7xx more than likely shipped in the latter half of 1931.

Dick (rburg) don't you have one fairly close to this number? (within in a hundred)
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Old 09-04-2008, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadin:
Dick (rburg) don't you have one fairly close to this number? (within in a hundred)
No, mine is 638,500, and I only kept it because its the highest number gun I've seen with the maroon box and the correct interior printing.
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:29 AM
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Dick,
You've been moving them through?
I've got you on my database with more than "one" 1st Model
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadin:
I've got you on my database with more than "one" 1st Model
That would be correct!

More than 2, too.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
More than 2, too.
I think I could have said "more than most anybody"

Seriously, I have you with a 637,7xx also. Is this wrong?
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:21 AM
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I think I just did a buy it now on GB (see Auction # 133497894 ) and snagged a early version one screw. It has a few warts but I got it for $549.

Roger
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:38 AM
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Dean,
654849 shipped 11/14/35.
Two-screw sight base.
Don
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:57 AM
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Don,
Thx for the info. I would guess you lettered it as you have the day shipped in addition to the month/year.
Any other info of interest? (Type of front sight, grips, where it was shipped, etc.)
(I'm slowly expanding my data collecting.)
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2009, 11:28 AM
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647947....January 1935....two screws.

Bill
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:53 AM
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Doc,
I've already got this one on the DB. You must have responded earlier.
Thanks anyway!
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:02 PM
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These are rear site assemblys only. All appear to be K-frame length tang but looking at the ser#'s I gather that they're not all from 22 outdoorsman:

378971---single screw

2755 -----2 screw (4 digit ser#, perhaps last 4 #'s?--no signs of refinish or restamping)

103120----single screw,,very thin rear sight blade
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:39 PM
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Dean:
I have Outdoorsman 639670
single rear sight screw
stainless call bead front sight
1931, I believe
I need to get this one lettered.

Mitch
A freeman in Montana
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:53 PM
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Mitch,
Thanks for the info.
Unless it is one of those that shipped out of order, I would estimate your gun shipped in the 2nd quarter of 1932. The closest numbers I have around it are 638,8xx in 04/32 and 642,8xx in 06/32..
If you letter it, drop me a line with where it went.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:57 PM
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Dean:

Since you are keeping track:

65776X - 2 rear screw sight, silver medallion service grips
65784X - 2 rear screw sight, prewar k-magnas.
66577X - 2 rear screw sight, silver medallion service grips

All have silver inset bead.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:19 PM
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Dean,

646608, Stainless Bead, June 12, 1934 and two screws.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:45 AM
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RK

Quote:
65784X - 2 rear screw sight, prewar k-magnas.
That one has to be one of the very earliest Magna gripped K-Frames!
Probably shipped late 1936.
I've got one that shipped late 1939 that letters with them, but they aren't numbered.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
646608, Stainless Bead, June 12, 1934 and two screws.
Tom,
Your's is the earliest 2 screw sight I have recorded so far.

Thanks......
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