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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #51  
Old 01-17-2009, 02:24 PM
Peter M. Eick Peter M. Eick is offline
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I just bought today a box exactly like your 38/44 high speed and the 110 grn highway patrolman ammo. Neat stuff. I also got a box of 200 grn and a pre-war box of 38 special. Next time I get my chrono out I will have to test some.
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  #52  
Old 03-13-2009, 07:08 AM
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Mr. Rush:
A slightly different variation of your Remington Hi-Speed Lead bullet, here is a metal point (R264). It is not pointed, just coated with a copper plating and has a small primer. The bottom of the box references the .38/44 Outdoorsman but not the Heavy Duty.
Ed
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  #53  
Old 03-15-2009, 08:34 AM
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I've put out some of this ammo for sale in the Accessory section.

Thanks
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  #54  
Old 03-15-2009, 02:01 PM
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Hey all,
Just joined and one of the reasons is the gun in the picture..Looks like a "K"? I have one that looks like it except my front sight is pretty much like a long half moon. Smooth when viewed from the side. When looking from the front, it looks like it was just cut thinner on both sides and is an integral part of the barrel. its got a serial # of S 813882 on the butt. Looks just like the one in your pic other than that. Barrel is stamped patented feb 6.00, sept 14:09, dec 23:14
right side stamped 38 S ck (?or cl or & my eyes aren't the best now) W.special CTG and barrel measures 4 1/4 from front to frame.
Any help on what it is?
Thanks all
Tddo

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Originally posted by merlindrb:
It's not often (these days ) that I disagree with my esteemed friend Dick Burg. However, until recently I also believed that these boxes were post-war. Then I bought a couple of guns that went to Western in 1936/7 and began to take more interest in the company. As part of this interest I "acquired" a few pre-war Westerm ammo catalogs from Ebay and, lo & behold, there were these 357 boxes exactly as pictured above. The rest of the Western boxes in the shown in the catalog picture are clearly the pre-war target style - as per the style of the .32 S&W Long Western box at the bottom of the pic below. In the catalog, only the .357 Magnum appears to be in the Super-X packaging.

Re the small primer, I agree that Winchester and Remington used large primer initially, as did Peters. However, I've come across some Western test ammo that supposedly dates from 1938 and is clearly small primer (see pics below). Now, we might speculate (and you know how I love to do that ) that perhaps Western were the people that developed small primer magnum ammo and did so in the late 30's... That might also explain their need to purchase test guns in 1937 (factory letters clearly state "for testing purposes").

Thoughts anyone??

Butch - to answer your original question. I paid $100 for a box in Tulsa and thought I'd done well. Hope it helps.







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  #55  
Old 03-17-2009, 05:31 PM
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Twoeyes:
Your gun with the S prefix should be a transitional M&P from around 1948 or so.

Mr. Rush:
Referencing your excellent post at the bottom of Page 3, the Peters .357, I submit one more version of the same ammo. Notice this box has the Bridgeport address on the bottom right corner instead of spread across the entirety. Lead bullet, nickel cartridge case not referenced on the box, small primers.
Ed
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  #56  
Old 03-18-2009, 01:55 PM
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Ed, Thanks for the post. I've added it to my "reference" file.
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  #57  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:56 PM
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Another difference in two boxes of Winchester .357 Magnum ammo: The pic below is the end flap of two 1935 style boxes (before the Western and Olin callouts). One refers to the round as the S.&W. .357 Magnum while the other doesn't mention S&W on the flap. These two boxes share one identical side but the second side is different. Thought it was an interesting note.
Ed
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  #58  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:28 PM
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Ed,

This is the kind of thing which makes trying to "date" ammo boxes a frustrating and almost impossible task.

I'd guess that these are just two separate printing runs and from the same general period. Depending upon which came first (and we'll probably never know), the typesetter's logic probably ran something along these lines: 1)"Oops, I forgot the S&W" or 2) "This layout certainly looks neat and clean and calls attention to the .357 caliber which is the most important part of this identification". (I'd bet that the one without the S&W, whether first or last, was followed by a phone call from the Factory attorney.)

Thanks for posting.

Bob
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  #59  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:57 PM
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Hi:
I recall using that ammo in the 1950s.
That and "Armor Piercing" ammo was the only .357 ammo avialable.
The ammo in question (158 gr LSWC) would lead the bore "Big Time".
Jimmy
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  #60  
Old 06-10-2009, 12:07 PM
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I recently had a wrench thrown into the gears of my logic concerning pre-war Winchester .357 Magnum factory primers. A couple of years ago I picked up a tattered box with about half of the original ammo, large flat primer in a nickel plated shell. It is shown on page 2 of this thread. The first 2 pages of the thread bandy about comments regarding whether ammo is pre- or postwar depending on the size of the primer (except Western which nearly always has a small primer).
Recently I had the opportunity to add another box to my collection which was the 1935 style (no Western or Olin callout) with the nickel plated shell stamp on the top and bottom. However, the ammo had small, round primers and a headstamp of SUPER SPEED 357 MAGNUM. After acquiring it, I began to doubt the originality of the ammo in relation to the box and contacted a gentleman who has an excellent reputation in dating older ammunition and presented my findings to him.
He consulted his database and personal boxes and assured me that my ammo was within spec and, most likely, original pre-war ammo. According to his data, small round primers in the .357 Magnum cartridge began coming out of the E. Alton factory around October of 1936. The SUPER SPEED headstamp also appeared in 1936 from both factories, E. Alton and New Haven.
There are also some differences in the design of the tops/bottoms of these boxes but I have not seen any in this thread so will not confuse things any further.
Ed
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  #61  
Old 06-10-2009, 01:37 PM
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Just for reference, Ray Giles dated this Western Lubaloy box to 1957/58









Hope this helps
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  #62  
Old 06-10-2009, 10:06 PM
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Since it has come up, to avoid confusion I posted the pictures in the previous reply for dating purposes on Western Ammo boxes, it just happens to be a 44 mag box instead of 357.
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  #63  
Old 08-31-2009, 08:23 PM
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Default Most Pre-War Offerings

I thought I would bring this thread back up and restore it to its original intent.

Although not all of the offerings are included, esp. the Peters pre-war Rustless .357 Magnum, this should be most of them. Most notably absent is the U.S. Cartridge Company box which was made for one year, 1935, the first year the gun was available. I would pay in excess of 100 American green dollars if anyone has one gathering dust.
Ed

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  #64  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:12 PM
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Talking US Cartridge Co. 357

Hi Ed - pics of a box of the hard to find US Cartridge Co. pre-war .357, about as tough to locate as the Dominion.

I should say that I paid a lot more than $100 for it though... Didn't I buy it from you? :-)

Good luck with the search.

Dave



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Old 08-31-2009, 11:14 PM
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Default USC 357 Ammo

Dream on guys. At an auction last week was a partial vg box with 9 original rounds. At least 2 people had to have this box and it gaveled down for a price of $893, pre vig! Ray Giles rates this box R4 in scarcity with a top estimate of $400.
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  #66  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:24 PM
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That's what I said Rush. I'll take all anyone can find at $100 a box! :-)
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:05 AM
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At the last OGCA show in Wilmington, one guy had 2 different boxes of prewar ammo (I forget which boxes). He was pretty well set on his prices of $400 each. Probably fair, judging by the rarity.
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  #68  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:39 AM
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Dave:

WOW!!! That is the first living, breathing orange box I have seen outside of the pic in Ray's book. That was extremely thoughtful of you to reveal it.
Ed
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:45 AM
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Smile Registered Magnum Ammo

Hi:
Just my two cents:
I recall that colored ammo boxes from the 50s.
Also the bullets were copper colored plus the bullets were not seated as deep as the ones in the photo.
The deep seated bullets plus the case mouth crimp--possible reloads???
Jimmy
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  #70  
Old 09-01-2009, 12:17 PM
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I wish I would have had a chance to read this thread a few years ago. I had noticed that I didn't get the accuracy I would expect from my Registered Magnums with modern ammo so I purchased a box of pre-war ammo and did an article in which I tested a 6.5 Registered Magnum versus a Colt .357 Magnum Shooting Master with Pre-War ammo. I only discussed the pre-war ammo in passing but could have included a lot more info after reading this thread. Leroy
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  #71  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:09 AM
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Default pre-war .357 magnum

Recently added another to get one step closer to a complete set. Still need a Peters Rustless box. Has anyone seen one of the boxes in the 2nd pic? It sold at Kull & Supica auction in '07 and is the only one of these I have ever seen. Dave, did you end up with it?
Ed


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  #72  
Old 02-21-2020, 12:05 AM
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Stopped by a LGS today and found a partial box of pre-war .357 ammo. I initially thought it was a duplicate of a box I already had but the price was right so I picked it up. Turns out is was different than mine.
1. Brass cases vs. nickel cases
2. Box marked .357 Magnum vs. S&W .357 Magnum
3. Larger priner vs, small primer
4. Headstamp Super Speed vs. WRA
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File Type: jpg Mag Ammo 2.jpg (174.9 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg Mag Ammo 1.jpg (102.1 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg Mag Ammo 3.jpg (74.6 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg Mag Ammo 4.jpg (79.5 KB, 36 views)
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  #73  
Old 02-21-2020, 10:27 AM
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I would guess that Winchester deleted the "S&W" after Colt introduced that caliber in their Shooting Master in 1936 (?).

Bob
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1911, 357 magnum, cartridge, colt, commercial, crimp, fouling, headstamp, highway patrolman, jinks, ogca, outdoorsman, patrolman, postwar, prewar, primer, registered magnum, remington, rifleman, tulsa, umc, winchester, wwii

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