Outdoorsman or coverted Heavy Duty?

lentuk · #1 10-07-2008, 06:17 PM

Outdoorsman or converted Heavy Duty?

All I knew at the time was it was an N frame, older S&W, it looked nice and the price was right.
Well after I got home I pulled out the Supica/Nahas book and found out the serial number 373XX made it from 1931 and the Outdoorsman only came with a 6 1/2 inch barrel.
All the numbers match, barrel ejector channel, frame and cylinder. I knew the grips were wrong.
The rear sight looks factory and the 5 inch barrel has the milled on front sight base, even though the front blade looks to be modified.
The hammer has (REG. U.S. PAT. OFF.) On the back like a registered magnum?
What might I have here? A modified HD or a factory special order Outdoorsman with a 5 inch barrel?

lentuk · #2 10-07-2008, 06:17 PM

Outdoorsman or converted Heavy Duty?

All I knew at the time was it was an N frame, older S&W, it looked nice and the price was right.
Well after I got home I pulled out the Supica/Nahas book and found out the serial number 373XX made it from 1931 and the Outdoorsman only came with a 6 1/2 inch barrel.
All the numbers match, barrel ejector channel, frame and cylinder. I knew the grips were wrong.
The rear sight looks factory and the 5 inch barrel has the milled on front sight base, even though the front blade looks to be modified.
The hammer has (REG. U.S. PAT. OFF.) On the back like a registered magnum?
What might I have here? A modified HD or a factory special order Outdoorsman with a 5 inch barrel?

moosedog · #3 10-07-2008, 06:57 PM

You have a HD that has the adjustable rear site added. Looks like a very professional job. Shoot it yet?

JayCeeNC · #4 10-07-2008, 08:17 PM

Well, it's a darn pretty gun whatever it is! Congrats.

Alk8944 · #5 10-07-2008, 08:20 PM

Moosedog is right. Look at the last picture, the front end of the sight. There is the remnant of the sight channel showing under the sight leaf. This would be flat if it were originally a target sighted gun. The front blade was added after cutting a slot in the sight base. The 2 pins would have been unusual if the factory did this.

Check for the factory re-work star, it well may be a factory modification "in the day", they used to do that sort of thing. It also appears to be re-finished. If it shoots well it is still a very nice revolver in spite of the re-blue and modifications.

1Aspenhill · #6 10-07-2008, 08:53 PM

Lentuk,
I will tell you that in my opinion the work was not done by the S&W factory. I have one that was done by the factory and the front sight would not have been done by factory. The rear sight is a S&W sight and the work was most likely done by a very good gunsmith. The serial number is that of a Heavy Duty as the first Outdoorsman were in the late 39000 serial number range. You could get an Outdoorsman with a 5" barrel on special order. In fact my Target Heavy Duty left the factory with a 5" barrel. Chances are your gun left the factory in late 1930. Bottom line, I think it is a Heavy Duty that has been modified. I would like to add the serial number to my database if you would send it offline.
Thanks and I hope this helps,
Bill

j38 · #7 10-07-2008, 09:04 PM

Very interesting revolver! The barrel crown doesn't quite look like it came from the factory that way either. Good find!

Jerry

bmg60 · #8 10-07-2008, 09:08 PM

Hi
bill is right on with his call
if you look close at the top of the frame
next to the sight you can see that the contour
is not quite round a factory target would not have the frame contour that you see on this gun
it would be more round.
jim fisher
S&WCA member 1491

Pontiaker · #9 10-08-2008, 10:28 AM

Whats the deal with the white outline rear sight blade? Is that aftermarket? I didnt think you get get a white outline rear sight blade this early? Cool gun!

bmg60 · #10 10-08-2008, 03:39 PM

hi
the blade is most likely king
you could get king white outline rear
sights in the 1930,s
jim

handejector · #11 10-08-2008, 03:57 PM

Did anybody else notice the tangs are NOT grooved?
Target guns had grooved tangs by the 30's.

1Aspenhill · #12 10-10-2008, 09:47 PM

I don't want to disappoint my esteemed colleague, but not all target guns were built with grooved tangs as evident by my first year 38/44 Heavy Duty Target that left with a 5" barrel, adjustable sights and did not have grooved front and rear backstraps. Another one built earlier than mine had grooved front and rear backstraps because they were specifically requested by the purchaser.
Bill

willy · #13 10-11-2008, 04:39 PM

MAN!
You guys are sharp.
I feel like I was just taken to school by some of your comments.

Next gun show I go to, I want you guys with me!

I'm still learn'n
Thanks guys

Willy

handejector · #14 10-13-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1Aspenhill:
I don't want to disappoint my esteemed colleague, but not all target guns were built with grooved tangs as evident by my first year 38/44 Heavy Duty Target that left with a 5" barrel, adjustable sights and did not have grooved front and rear backstraps. Another one built earlier than mine had grooved front and rear backstraps because they were specifically requested by the purchaser.
Bill

Bill,
You know your gun is the exception to the rule. At that time, the Outdoorsman did not exist as a model, and those guns were custom ordered. Perhaps it was a rush order, or perhaps yours was built on a finished gun, and they did not want to go to all the trouble of grooving and refitting grips, or perhaps they simply did not even think about it.
Show me another Target model shipped after 1930 without grooves......

1Aspenhill · #15 10-13-2008, 08:48 PM

Remember Lee,
Never say never with S&W!

Bill

230grfmj · #16 10-14-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by handejector:
Did anybody else notice the tangs are NOT grooved?
Target guns had grooved tangs by the 30's.

Quote:

Originally posted by handejector:

Quote:

Originally posted by 1Aspenhill:
I don't want to disappoint my esteemed colleague, but not all target guns were built with grooved tangs as evident by my first year 38/44 Heavy Duty Target that left with a 5" barrel, adjustable sights and did not have grooved front and rear backstraps. Another one built earlier than mine had grooved front and rear backstraps because they were specifically requested by the purchaser.
Bill

Bill,
You know your gun is the exception to the rule. At that time, the Outdoorsman did not exist as a model, and those guns were custom ordered. Perhaps it was a rush order, or perhaps yours was built on a finished gun, and they did not want to go to all the trouble of grooving and refitting grips, or perhaps they simply did not even think about it.
Show me another Target model shipped after 1930 without grooves......

Lee, I agree with the information you have provided and I have always appreciated your vast knowledge of Smith & Wesson's, especially your knowledge of pre war guns.

I also did a little research on the pre war Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman models in the 3rd Edition of <u>Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson,</u> by two other extremely knowledgeable collectors, and read the following information which also corroborates what you suggested as well.

On pages 154 it mentions the Heavy Duty was produced with a smooth backstrap & forestrap, and on page 155 it states the Outdoorsman was made with the 6 groove backstrap & forestrap. It makes sense for a target gun to have such a design so that the shooter would be able to obtain a more secure grip on the firearm.

BlackAgnes · #17 10-15-2008, 11:01 AM

As I recall-- the serial number (or the last few digits) is usually stamped on the underside of the rear sight body--the long part. If this is present and matches the serial number of your gun...it would indicate factory originality.

Tim