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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:58 AM
medone1 medone1 is offline
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Please excuse me if this is not in the right area here. I'm fairly new to this forum and over the weekend a friend of mine traded me this S&W what he says if Victory model revolver. I am not that familiar with older revolvers and was wondering if anyone can give me some insight on this one and if you think it has been re-blued or not. The pics are only links and didn't want to load a lot of pics directly on the post due to excessive time for it to load. He said the gun came from his uncle who was an officer and was issued this gun. He said it has been in his desk drawer for the past 30 years wrapped up. Any information on this gun good or bad would be greatly appreciated. pic links following:

Victory pic 1
Victory pic 2
Victory pic 3
victory pic 4
victory pic 5
Victory pic 6
Victory pic 7
victory pic 8
victory pic 9
victory pic 10
victory pic 11
victory pic 12
Victory pic 13
victory pic 14
Victory pic 15
victory pic 16
victory pic 17
victory pic 18
victory pic 19
victory pic 20
victory pic 21
Victory pic 22
victory pic 23
victory pic 24
Victory pic 25
victory pic 26
victory pic 27
victory pic 28

The serial number is V733731. The number is matching on several different areas of the gun. I am not sure exactly what the markings are on the barrel either. The cylinder appears to be slightly different in color than the rest of the blueing on the gun any info as to why on this will help as well. Again any information on this gun would be greatly appreciated either good or bad. Again please forgive me if these seem like stupid questions being asked but I'm just not that familiar with older guns.
Thanks in advance for anyone and everyone's replies and time to help.
Justin
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2008, 05:58 AM
medone1 medone1 is offline
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Please excuse me if this is not in the right area here. I'm fairly new to this forum and over the weekend a friend of mine traded me this S&W what he says if Victory model revolver. I am not that familiar with older revolvers and was wondering if anyone can give me some insight on this one and if you think it has been re-blued or not. The pics are only links and didn't want to load a lot of pics directly on the post due to excessive time for it to load. He said the gun came from his uncle who was an officer and was issued this gun. He said it has been in his desk drawer for the past 30 years wrapped up. Any information on this gun good or bad would be greatly appreciated. pic links following:

Victory pic 1
Victory pic 2
Victory pic 3
victory pic 4
victory pic 5
Victory pic 6
Victory pic 7
victory pic 8
victory pic 9
victory pic 10
victory pic 11
victory pic 12
Victory pic 13
victory pic 14
Victory pic 15
victory pic 16
victory pic 17
victory pic 18
victory pic 19
victory pic 20
victory pic 21
Victory pic 22
victory pic 23
victory pic 24
Victory pic 25
victory pic 26
victory pic 27
victory pic 28

The serial number is V733731. The number is matching on several different areas of the gun. I am not sure exactly what the markings are on the barrel either. The cylinder appears to be slightly different in color than the rest of the blueing on the gun any info as to why on this will help as well. Again any information on this gun would be greatly appreciated either good or bad. Again please forgive me if these seem like stupid questions being asked but I'm just not that familiar with older guns.
Thanks in advance for anyone and everyone's replies and time to help.
Justin
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2008, 06:26 AM
carguychris carguychris is offline
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The Victory was the name for the variant chambered in .38 Special and used by American forces. What you have there is not exactly a Victory but what's known as a .38/200 British Service Revolver. This gun was chambered in .38/200, the British variant of the .38S&W, denoted by the ".38 S&W CTG." stamped on the barrel.

This particular gun looks to me like it's been modified. First of all, based on the word "SPECIAL" stamped on the barrel, I'm guessing it's been converted to .38 Special by reaming out the cylinder. This was a popular modification frequently done to guns that were reimported to the USA. Unfortunately, these guns often aren't very accurate because the .38S&W has a 0.361" bore rather than a 0.357" bore like a .38Spl, so the smaller bullets won't engage the rifling properly. I suggest sticking with soft lead bullets and avoiding jacketed bullets to minimize this problem. These guns will also suffer from bulged and split cases because the .38S&W case is also slightly larger in diameter than a .38Spl case. If you put an unfired .38Spl round in the gun, I bet it will wobble around in the chamber.

.38/200s and Victories were made with a variety of stocks and finishes, but IIRC a later-production example like yours should have smooth walnut stocks and dull greyish black phosphate finish. It should also have some sort of Lend-Lease stamp on the topstrap. Check the following thread for pics of a relatively unmolested (albeit ugly) .38/200 I picked up last week:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/for...4/m/4411055513

Mine says "UNITED STATES PROPERTY", although IIRC a later one like yours probably said "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.". (The last part is the initials of the inspector, George H. Drury.)

I'm not the foremost expert on these guns on this forum (far from it!), but judging from the shallowness of the factory markings, it looks like your gun has been reblued. It has had later-style S&W commercial Magna stocks installed. Pull the stocks and I'll bet you'll find a number under the right-hand panel that does NOT match the serial number of the gun. These sorts of modifications were not uncommon to reimported guns, and it looks like the company that did them (presumably Cogswell & Harris) did a pretty good job. I've seen some truly horrendous nickel-plating jobs done to these guns, usually accompanied by miserably cheap plastic aftermarket stocks.

Since it looks like the gun was converted to .38Spl, I would have it inspected by a gunsmith before firing it.
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2008, 06:33 AM
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It is my understanding that both variants are known as Victory Models
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2008, 06:37 AM
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Justin,

Yes, that one started out as a WW2 British lend-lease 'Victory' model. It was originally chambered for the British .38-200 round (same as .38 S&W), not .38 Special. It's been over-polished and reblued, probably when it was converted to .38 Special. Some of these conversions were done right. Some of them are downright unsafe. You should have a gunsmith check to see if it is ok to shoot. (even if ok to shoot, it probably won't have any accuracy with factory ammo due to the larger bore diameter of the original .38-200 versus .38 Special) .38-200 (or .38 S&W) uses a .360" diameter bullet. .38 Special uses a .357".

The reason the cylinder is a different color is due to the wrong temperatures being used when it was re-blued. Due to the heat treating of the cylinder at the factory, it will re-blue differently than the rest of the gun. Only a very experienced refinisher can get the new blue to match.

The grips it is wearing are also post-war grips and were replaced at some point.

As to all the markings, some of them are US proofs before it was sent to England, some are British wartime acceptance proofs, and some are post-war when it was sold off the the commercial/surplus market. Then there's the Cogswell info on the frame and 'Special' stamp on the barrel when it was later converted to .38 Special. The NP stands for Nitro Proof, and should be on the barrel, frame and each cylinder chamber when they proof fired it in England.

Hope this helps,
Chris
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:12 AM
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This is a modified and refinished 'Victory' revolver. The re-chambering is a bit dangerous especially with the number of +P+ loadings available and the 'low' pressure that this gun was designed to handle. The refinish wasn't done very well and internal parts are likely worth more than the revolver is at this point as long as they haven't been modified.
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:03 AM
medone1 medone1 is offline
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Thanks for the information everyone. I will look under the grip panels tonight and see what the numbers are. I already thought about the pressure differences in the current 38 spec loads and I am not a guy who will go out and shoot anything without it being inspected thoroughly anyway so no need of me considering firing this thing. Sure do appreciate all the help. You all are great and fast to reply.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2008, 05:51 AM
medone1 medone1 is offline
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Took the right grip panel off last night and as pics show no numbers under it or on the left side as well. The serial number is stamped on the bottom by the laynard ring, barrel and cylinder and all match. As the pics show too there is no type of US markings on the top strap either. Is this one of those that were not marked? Looking in blue book it states that some did not have any US markings on them. Just trying my best to see if I was taken to the cleaners or not. Thanks again to all those who have replied so far. The information is very informative for this beginner.
Justin
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2008, 06:11 AM
walnutred walnutred is offline
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As the cylinder serial # seems to match the frame it's safe to assume the chambers have been lengthened to 38 Special. If you fire 38 Special ctgs in this revolver the cases will bulge slightly. Do you reload? You can probably still shoot 38 S&W in this revolver without any problem.

Did you get taken to the cleaners? It depends on what your thought you were buying, what you planned on doing with it, and how much you paid. hate to say this but in my opinion this revolver will never be a collectors item and unless you like to reload I doubt you will find satisfaction with it as a shooter.

However, I have owned a couple revolvers like this and found the British conversions better than the US ones. Personally I'd buy a box of standard velocity 38 Specials, 158 gn round nose , and give it a try. Let your gunsmith check timing and lock-up but the case bulging should not be enough to cause a ruptured case. Stiff extraction maybe.
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2008, 01:36 AM
raisedin99 raisedin99 is offline
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I was at the adams county department store yesterday and got to look at your former Victory, not a bad looking revolver; now priced at $ 425.00...
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  #11  
Old 10-02-2008, 07:15 AM
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Here's what a bulged case looks like after being fired in a 38 S&W reamed for 38 Special. This is with a mild target load, (148 gr. HBWC & 2.8 gr Bullseye). A factory load may very possibly have to be beaten out of the chamber with a rod.
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  #12  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:33 PM
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Hey medone1, where in Ohio are you? How close to US35 going into WV? If you know how to work on that 38 be able to set it up with a 38 special cylinder. Here is a barrel for it, if you have a way of putting it on:
http://e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?...rSuperSKU=&MC=
Let me know
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:17 AM
medone1 medone1 is offline
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John,
thanks for the reply but I no longer own this gun. My local dealer made me such a good deal I couldn't pass it up. Thanks for the offer though.
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38spl, bullseye, commercial, gunsmith, lock, united states property, victory, walnut

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