First thing, this gun is refinished. Considering the fact that I only have $300 into it and the condition of the finish I'm more than satisfied. All the markings are deep and clear. All four pins on the left side are sharp and there is no pitting under the grips and no dishing around the screws. Under the left grip is inscribed, bought by A. R. Martin, Apr 10, 1905. The right grip is inscribed, D. L. Hampton, 7/1/65. I bought the gun at auction so am possibly the third owner. The hammer and trigger are buffed. The gun is as tight as a swiss clock SN 12838. It's fun to shoot but the sights are WAY to narrow. I am not asking for permission to like it. It's a blue collar gun owned by a blue collar guy.
DW

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"NUTS"

First thing, this gun is refinished. Considering the fact that I only have $300 into it and the condition of the finish I'm more than satisfied. All the markings are deep and clear. All four pins on the left side are sharp and there is no pitting under the grips and no dishing around the screws. Under the left grip is inscribed, bought by A. R. Martin, Apr 10, 1905. The right grip is inscribed, D. L. Hampton, 7/1/65. I bought the gun at auction so am possibly the third owner. The hammer and trigger are buffed. The gun is as tight as a swiss clock SN 12838. It's fun to shoot but the sights are WAY to narrow. I am not asking for permission to like it. It's a blue collar gun owned by a blue collar guy.
DW

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"NUTS"

I always like to see the .32-20 Hand Ejectors. That one looks graceful with its long barrel. Good choice of barrel lengths for the round.

So what if it has been refinished. I'd a been all over it myself for three bills. The last .32-20 Target I saw for sale (M&P 1905) had a $1200 tag on it. Should be a nice shooter.

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Non illegitimae carborundum

Neat gun.
What's up with the rear sight? Is it an aftermarket job?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Curious gun. From what I see, the gun is an M&P. It still has the
original milling for the rear end of the rear sight slot. If it were a
target, that would all be milled away, to provide space for the rear of
the sight leaf to set in. Someone has milled some kind of slot on the
top strap, to hold that adapted rear sight configuration. Also it looks
like the front sight is a solid forging.

Another thing that is interesting is that, effectively, the gun has a
raised rear sight (assuming it was an M&P), and appears to have a lowered
front sight. Ie, the front sight looks low. I wonder if the gun was
shooting way high, and this was an attempt to make it shoot lower.

The logo on the side plate looks to be very deep, and overall the finish
looks good. I'll tell you what this gun "almost" looks like. David Carroll
and a couple others have a couple of guns with a drift-adjustable rear
sight blade. I recall that the guns are M&P's, but have this blade that is
forward of the rear sight notch. I say "almost", because of the appearance
of the rear sight blade standing up forward of the rear of the frame.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike, I have one of the guns that you speak of and David has the other. I also have a line on another that is like mine and have seen another that is like Davids.
Davids



mine



I will retake the pictures later as the ones I posted are from when I wasn't to good at it.
DW

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"NUTS"

These are a bit better. The front sight is dove tailed. Looks like I have some kind of conversion to target here.
DW

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"NUTS"

Thats a neat .32-20, DW. I love the ones that you "just don't see em everyday".

Pretty big coincidence here. I logged on to post a recent arrival and started reading this thread, and in it is what I wanted to post about. Not the .32-20 though so I'll start another thread so not to hijack from this cool gun. Hope to see ya there.

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Pace

Paul

Yes - that is exactly the gun I was thinking about.

That dove-tailed front sight, on your 32-20, was a common technique for mounting
rifle sights. I recall talking to Dave Chicoine about it, and he noted that it
was common.

Recently I was asking about 78222 . I found the picture:



If you look carefully at the top strap, you will see a very small projection above the
top strap, towards the rear of it. That is not an aberation - there is actually a very small
pieces pressed into the M&P sight slot, and it has a very small groove across its top, that
lines up with that Lyman front sight blade. A similar configuration to your gun.

Later, Mike Priwer

I really have to get my pictures together once I can...but, this sight...


Is extremely similar in style to the rear sight found on early Wesson percussion target pistols.

Coincidence? I don't know.

These revolvers are beautiful!!!

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Here's a couple of original 32WCF targets. The round butt is a 1902 2nd mdl 1st change shipped in 1904. The square butt is a 1905 4th change, shipped in 1918.

Love the 32-20 HE pictured here. Would be cool if S&W made a few new ones as part of the Classic line.

Here is my 1899 target 32-20.

John, I think you should start a new thread with this gun. Should bring some interesting comments.
DW

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"NUTS"

DW we did do one on it about a year ago. Mike and I talk about the gun along with Lee that there was less than 100 of these were made. The letter doesn't say that. It was shipped on May 23, 1901 to Philip Bekeart Co., San Francisco. It is rare that has turned brown with age. I was going to send it off and have it refinished, then I change my mine on that. I think it will tell more stories this way, and have more respect.

Just picked this up today !! 1905 4th change?

Serial # 84678

Need period grips for it ( any one?)

came with 2 sets of dies, 600 pcs new Brass, 50 rds once fired brass, 600 rds penn bullets and

500 rds of new ammo

















Shows very little wear I would rate it at 97%

Thanks for looking

Fred

Gun should be about early 1920, so either gold medallions, or convex non-medallion
would be OK. Its right at the point where the grips change.

How about a good picture of the left side of the frame ? I'd like to see what
the ends of the studs look like.

Later, Mike Priwer

Mike is this good enough?





Fred

Looks like he got a good one Mike. The cylinder does seem to have a purple hue but that could be the light.
DW

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"NUTS"

DW, The purple hue is the light.

"whats a good one" ?

Fred

Paul

I think its been refinished. Look at the ends of the trigger stud, and the
rebound slide spring stud. The hammer stud also looks to be polished flat.



Regards, Mike Priwer

I don't know Mike. Seems to be some reflection around the studs. A little better pic maybe?
Paul

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"NUTS"

Paul

I checked two of my .38's from 1920 - 1921, and they both have a polished
flat trigger stud - so I am wrong about that. But - they both have very
rounded pin ends for the rebound slide spring retaining stud.

To me , that stud end looks flat, in the picture. So yes - we could use
a better picture of that part of the frame . The pin is the one that is
just to the left of the frame cutout for the top of the stock.

Also, there is question about the logo. This gun has none - both of mine
have the small logo on the left side of the frame. I know there is
a discussion about the presence of the logo in this time-frame.

Later, Mike Priwer

Mike and Paul, thanks for your input!!

I will try to take some better pictures when life does not interfer with my play time.

Any idea of value either way?

Best

Fred

Fred

Its very much dependent on the originality of the finish. If that is an original
97% finish, then its perhaps a $700 to $800 gun, maybe more. The grips take something
away, and obviously the original ones are gone. The gun would need a near-mint
pair, to go with the condition, so thats at least $100 for a good pair of proper
grips. You would have to find someone who wanted a 97% gun, but its probably
worth that much.

On the other hand, if its been refinished, then its probably a $350 to $450 gun.

If Lee or David are around, they might have a different, and perhaps better,
estimate of what they could sell it for . Or, what they could buy it for !

I should add that I collect target rvolvers, not M&P's . Here, I can only
estimate what I think it ought to be worth. If Lee and/or David tell me I am
completely wrong, then I am.

Later, Mike Priwer

Hi Fred,
I held off on this one, not knowing how you would take it, IF it is refinished.
I have suspicions that it is. I just can't see the rebound slide stud that Mike wants to see, but other points bother me. I almost have an "intuition" or "radar" if you will.
The points that bother me-
My initial impression, the hardest point here to define, is the general "softness" of edges I see. This softness is mainly around the front corner of the frame. It could just be the pics- no offense.
I am VERY troubled by the LACK of case colors on the hammer and trigger of a 98-99% gun. They "cleaned" them up, but did not blue them.
7th pic down- do I see one pinpoint pit on the ejector rod, and two tiny pits in the white stripe of light above the barrel lug?

Mike, you are spot-on.
An original gun in that cond, with proper grips, yes to $700-800, assuming good bore/mechanics. Refinished, with elk stags, $350-400. Maybe more to the guy who likes it.

I tend to think that gun had gold med grips. The logos on the frame came back when they took the meds off the grips. One of the "D" catalogs talks about deleting grip med's, and moving the trademark to the frame "where it can't be taken off".

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee, are you talking about where the trigger guard in the front starts don't come down to a sharp point, and the edges roll? Just trying to learn. Is that what is soft? Plus doesn't the trigger pin look flat to you?

Thanks guys for all the great input. As one said this is a learning exp.

I have $425 into the gun.

Duh!!! I just checked the bore!!It is Bright and shiney and strong rifleing. Looks like it was shoot very little.

Where do we go from here?

I will try to get more pics asap.

Thanks again for all the great inupt

Best

Fred

Lee, no insult taken that is why I posted here.

There is a broader base of experts on this forum then most anywhere else.

Sometimes we pay to much in the heat of the moment so IT does not get away, and sometimes we find a Diamond in the ruff.

I need and want all the input when I post!!!

Best

Fred

I mean the "arcs" in front of TG have soft edges, as well as front corner edge of frame- the corner in front of trigger guard.
Yes, trigger pin is flat, but they flattened them about this time, so NOT an indicator. As Mike said "I checked two of my .38's from 1920 - 1921, and they both have a polished
flat trigger stud"

We need better pics.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

DW:

What a cool gun - love the sights and the work done to fit them!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Thank You Lee

We need better pics.[/QUOTE]

O.K. Try these.















Thanks

Fred

Fred

What we need is the left side of the frame, with the grip off.
The pin we want to see is just to the right of the top of the frame
cutout. That magna-style grip is hiding it !

Regards, Mike

PS The picture of the right side , the second one in this latest batch,
shows a lot of demarcation between the edges of the side plate, and
the frame cut in which the side plate sits. This is typically
caused by buffing over the edges of the side plate during refinishing.

Try these.











Thanks

Fred

Fred,
Thanks. Even before the last pics with grips off, I nailed it as a rather good reblue, NON-factory.
The color had been bothering me, but color varies in pics.
The frame lug is buffed.
Sideplate was buffed off the gun.
One inch left of "Smith" on the barrel- see the blue ding?
Last, with the new pics- that pin the grip was covering should have a domed, protruding head.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Yes - the rebound slide spring retaining stud is definitely flat - just as I
thought it looked in the very first set of pictures. It should not be flat -
it is suppossed to protrude with a rounded end.

As Lee mentioned eearlier, my very reaction was that the gun looked too
roundy. Ie, it just seems to be missing a lot of the sharp, or distinct edges.
That is why I asked to see the pins on the left side of the frame.

You can also see that the end of the hammmer stud is flat, as well.

In the old days, if the factory refinished a gun they would take out the studs,
and put in dummies. Then when they polished the frame, the sides of the stud holes
did not get rounded. After they were done, they would replace the studs, making
them look original.

Later, Mike Priwer

I don't know if you made it to Sturbridge but a lot of people looked over that gun and never said a word. The workmanship is to die for. I just don't understand the rear sight. Rounded rear target?
DW

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"NUTS"

Best part you didn't get took on it, its worth what you payed out for it.

Thanks guys for all the great input!!!

I feel that I got a classic gun at a good price.

Best

Fred