So I stopped by my favorite local fun shop today on my weekly rounds and went straight for the handgun cases(as always) and found a decent looking M&P with $199 on the tag. I walked out with it for $175 + tax. It's loose, and the timing is slow...neither of which really bothered me because they should be easy to fix and the gun doesn't show a lot of use(cylinder notches are near perfect, only the slightest hint of flame cutting, and the cylinder ratchets look good).

BUT...I just popped the sideplate for a good cleaning and found the hammer stud to be loose. It's not falling out loose, but it is wobbly loose. It's also filthy inside.

So, at $175 + tax, how bad did I get hurt? Serial number is in the 900K range, dating it to 1940-1945.

So I stopped by my favorite local fun shop today on my weekly rounds and went straight for the handgun cases(as always) and found a decent looking M&P with $199 on the tag. I walked out with it for $175 + tax. It's loose, and the timing is slow...neither of which really bothered me because they should be easy to fix and the gun doesn't show a lot of use(cylinder notches are near perfect, only the slightest hint of flame cutting, and the cylinder ratchets look good).

BUT...I just popped the sideplate for a good cleaning and found the hammer stud to be loose. It's not falling out loose, but it is wobbly loose. It's also filthy inside.

So, at $175 + tax, how bad did I get hurt? Serial number is in the 900K range, dating it to 1940-1945.

Is it an S prefix, and if so, what range (first three)? Long action or short? One line address on right frame, or four? Hammer block safety inside?

None of that is difficult to fix, the bigger value question is if it has the right grips and what the finish is like. If those are very nice, then you did pretty well. If only fair, then you still made out OK.

There were no "V" 900's. Either it's a straight 900, making it 1941 I think. Many Brit victories were in this range. Or it's an S I would guess, making it 1947/48.

If no prefix, thatis a threaded stud- easy for you.
If it is an S prefix, it should be a pressed stud, and I'll bet you can handle that, too. Orient the polish lines so they match......

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Yes - just get yourself a small screwdriver, and a hammer, and slowly tighten the
stud back up. If it won't tighten up, then I'd return the gun.

Later, Mike Priwer

No prefix, first three digits are 984. Has a lanyard hole in the butt. There is a large S stamped into the side of the gripframe(right side) that looks factory. The serial number is also stamped on the cylinder, yoke, and barrel. This one does not have the new style hammer block safety.

I'm not sure if it's long or short action. I've not fooled with enough of the old guns to be able to spot the difference.

Right side of frame is stamped "Made in U.S.A." S&W logo is on the sideplate, and it's a five screw gun.

Grips aren't original, not much original finish left. At this point, I suspect it might have been refinished because it does have some pitting. Grips are aftermarket rubbers.

It's marked as a .38 S&W Special Ctg., So I know it's not a british lend/lease gun.

Thanks for the info, you too mikepriwer! I'll see if I can get it tightened up.

That would be (probably) an early 1942 gun, then - one of the early US Victories then, with the lanyard hole. Probably a 4" barrel?

You can take care of the mechanicals pretty easily as you know. The "long action" looks like this - this is NOT the "humpback" hammer - it's the standard "long action" type used until early 1948. The "throw" on the action is .2" or so longer than the post-war type. A little slower lock time, but a VERY smooth pull, comparatively.

Yep, it's a 4" and the hammer is the same as on the example you posted.

This one has an odd ejector rod head. Larger in diameter than the rest of the rod, and it is knurled. It's actually large enough to prevent me from taking the cylinder off the yoke.

I just examined the cylinder stop and found out why the lockup is so loose. Some fool filed/ground a good portion of the width away.

Time for another brownells order it appears.

Got a question about a Masonic Apron but you don't have your email in your profile and this forum doesn't do PMs.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Yes, the picture I posted isn't a Victory or pre-war but a transition from '47, just the best angle I had on the hammer. Yours should have a slightly wider rod end, not like the big mushroom head on the early ones, but an intermediate type used, I think, from 1930 to 10/1946. Just unthread it for disassembly - it is reverse the modern ones, use care.

Darn, I'll fix that ASAP. I'll try emailing you as well.

Edit-- profile is fixed. I tried emailing you but my email server is down again Hopefully they'll get it fixed quick.

Yep, it's just a larger diameter head. The mushroom shaped head I am familiar with since it's on my 1917.

Ok, the hammer stud tightened up nicely. I found another problem though... Apparently the loose hammer stud allowed the moron-fit DA sear to work, though it did not work well. The gun now has no DA at all. About halfway through the trigger stroke it simply locks up due to the hammer and trigger binding up--caused by the DA sear being too short. So I will be adding a new sear to my parts order.

I've looked through my SCoS&W and found that I have a Model 1905 Military and Police 4th change, with(according to them) the scarce square butt frame. I'll try to get a pic or two up later today.

1. Does anyone know if a cylinder stop for a M10 will interchange with the stop in this gun? I know I'll need to fit the replacement, but are there any issues with using a stop for a later model gun?

2. I think replacing the stop will fix the slow timing issue(the stop is totally FUBAR) but if it doesn't I'm going to need to replace the hand. The hand in this gun is unlike those I'm accustomed to and has a ramp "wing" extending from the rear, presumably to operate the weird spring steel gadget in the sideplate. Where can I obtain an identical replacement? What exactly do the ramp and spring steel gadget do? I'm good with mechanical stuff, but I can't figure this one out.

3. Where is the best place to obtain a set of original style grips? I hate the aftermarket rubbers on this gun.

The "weird spring" in the sideplate was an early attempt at a hammer-block safety. It didn't work out too well as crud build up behind it in its slot fouled everything up.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

I'd suggest you try to get your money back but since you've already decided to mess with the gun yourself it maybe that the original Seller won't be willing to accept a return.

By the time you're done you'll have a fair amount of time and money into a less than desirable firearm.

KKG may be right here - now you are looking at rebuilding the gun, not just tightening the stud.

But if you want to take it on as a project and learning experiment, that's fun, too.

Yeah, no one knows why that "scarce" is there, unless it refers to the very first 1905's to come off the line, which still had round grips. Doesn't apply to the model you are talking about, like you figured out.

Yes, issues - the cylinder stop spring and screw. Get one for a victory model - Numrich has them for $13, as well as a Hand for like $15. It says they have both in stock. If you want, they also sell a blued butt swivel for hole for $13 I believe. Cross-pin it with a 3/32" roll pin.

As to grips, I think it's a good bet yours came with smooth walnut service stocks like most Victories - I'm guessing because of the butt swivel/lanyard ring hole you mentioned. Check the classifieds, Ebay, and I believe www.gungrip.com makes repro's for like $60.

Given all this, and that you say the finish is poor/pitted, you might want to heed KKG's suggestion if possible...

If it were my gun, I'd get it Frank Smith at LSG mfg in Comanchee TX.

Frank ran Lone Star guns for 30 years and is an excellent S&W smith... he can do the job right and easily.

You can find his phone number on the S&W web site under customer support.

FWIW

Chuck

Thanks for the info. I found those at numrich the other day. They also list replacement stocks. The original cross pin for the lanyard swivel is in the frame.

I think it'll make a good shooter, so it isn't going anywhere.

This gun is not U.S. Property marked, so I don't think it's a Victory. By the serial and other info, it appears to be nothing more than a 1905 4th change M&P.

If it will help 931560 was shipped to the DSC in April 1942.

__________________
OFT/NRA LIFE MEMBER

Keep in mind "Victories" and the "pre-" models before the s/n "turned over" to a prefix were nothing more than 1905/4th change, either.

The ones mainly "US Property" marked were the British lend-lease ones. 1/3 of them were not Lend-Lease guns. These were used in/by the US, but not all were marked "US Property."

Likely, yours is a DSC gun as OFT has hinted. There was basically no civilian production by 1942, when your gun was made. Also, I do not believe civilian models were ever fitted with a butt swivel/lanyard loop. That is a very big tell that it is martial production, not civilian, even w/o the S/N info.

None of this likely impacts the value, it's just an exercise in ID'ing them and pinning down the history.

Some of the order I placed with Numrich came in yesterday. It was supposedly all in stock when I ordered....apparently their system sucks.

The hand they sent me is not the correct part. I suspect the sear and other small parts I ordered aren't correct either.

I'm not impressed with Numrich..again.