Belly Guns

Haha!
I haven't picked it up yet. I'm not.sure I have the cash of yet. The shop owners a friend of mine, he ran the serial but doesn't know if its a true fitz. He says its a pre war gun, but the hammer is still as it was from the factory. I dont want to post the price set, but wanted to know what a going price would be. If I dont buy it, i want to help him find someone who will appreciate it for what it is. Thanks guys.

Oh, if you can't see the serial is 405389.

Cocked & Locked said:

I'm liking the looks of it...got some character! Looks like someone did a good job on the trigger guard.

I like the way the bottom of the frame (where the trigger was attached in front) has the resulting "stump" smoothly removed.

Click to expand...

I thought about that as I looked at it. It's totally smoothed as if it was never attached in the front. Felt great in my hands, its something I would live to have, but as a newly wed, and planning on having a baby in the next while, I don't want to put out too much money (at least money she knows about) without knowing the worth. I never buy new guns intown since, thwy are not competitive as online. But I tend to find decent "relics" at good prices around here. It's just I dont know the real world worth of this piece.

Hi thedeej,


The Revolver in question is an early 1932 Colt Detective Special...

If there is a "Verified Proof'' stamp on the area where the reat top of the Trigger Bow meets the Frame, then it may indeed be a Factory Cut-away.

This stamping normally went on thew front Trigger top meets frame area, and, Factory Cut-Aways tended to have them placed at the rear, since there was no longer a 'front' area for them to go.


If you get it, you might do well to send off to Colt for having it Lettered...to see if it indeed shipped this way.

If you do not decide to get it, I would be interested in it...if you would not mind letting me know?

I have been wanting a Cut-Away 1930s Detective Special and I have not had the Heart to cut up one!

You are looking at a Colt Detective Special, or possibly a

factory 2" Police Positive, but also could be a shortened

Police Positive. Dates to 32-33.

A factory Fitz would have a bobbed hammer.

Condition is fair. Check function and lock-up.

If you can get a clear picture of the barrel markings it will
be much easier to determine what it is. Or write them down.

My guess is a cut down police positive.

If it is and function is good, I would call it a $300 shooter,max.

Thanks Gaucho1.
I'll get another look in the morning, gotta pay on a smith i have in lay-away. 3 is a good bit less than they have on it, & its been sitting in the case since I first went up there a couple years ago. I'll post more tomorrow...

The Text stampings on the Barrel appear to me to be those of an early 1930s Colt Detective Special.

This would say Detective Special 38 Special on the left side, and, have a 1926 Patent date with some Colt Address info on the right side.

There would be no lettering on the top of the Barrel in this instance.

These texts would not be found if this were a Police Positive Special which had been shortened.

Colt would do a 'Cut-Away' Trigger Bow on request, whether or not it was actually done by Mr. Fitzgerald himself...as well as that Mr. Fitzgerald himself, would do a Cut-away, with or without a Bobbed Hammer, or do a Bobbed Hammer, with or wiothout a Cut-Away Trigger Bow, according to the Customer's wishes.

In theory, when Colt did the Cut-Away Trigger Bow front, they stamped their "VP" Mark on the rear top of the Trigger Bow where it meets the frame, instead of Stamping it in their usual place on the front top of the Trigger Bow ( which front top area of the Trigger Bow of course is absent on the Cut-Away version ).

"VP" will be found on the left side front top of the Trigger Bow, of regular Colt Revolvers and Automatics after about 1905.


Cut-Aways were usually a consideration for Winter Gloves or Motorcycle Gloves, when the Revolver was to be carried in a Holster, whether IWB or Shoulder or whatever.

Some people liked them even if not anticipating Gloves, since they felt it allowed a little faster readyness.

Bobbed Hammer was for 'Pocket' Carry, though some IWB or Shoulder Holster folks also liked a Bobbed Hammer in their own right.

And, a lot of boys and girls used to do their own also, or, they would have their local Gunsmith do it, so there are always old "period" versions of Cut-aways with or without Bobbed Hammers, or Bobbed Hammers, with or without Cut-Aways, which were not done by Colt.

Oyeboteb is right on the mark.

As far as a factory "Fitz", as far as I am aware both the trigger
guard and hammer would be cut.

Also, Colt would do what the customer wanted, so the guard may or may not be factory.

Some would have a correct DS barrel added later, either by
gunsmith or factory. With the consistent finish wear, it is
very difficult to tell.

A cut barrel will sometimes show little or odd crown.

Also, even a very well done front site installation will usually
have evidence of not being original.

Upon the knowledgeable comments I can see no reason this
could not be a RB modified DS.

I got tangled thinking about square butt DSs from the same period.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Good reminders goucho1,

Indeed, as the Police Positive Special, and, the Detective Special, were in the same Serial Numbering...it is not possible to tell at a glance, if one is seeing a Police Positive Special, which was later re-Barrelled with a Detective Special Barrel of the same period as it's Frame...or, if one is looking at a normal and intact Detective Special.

No doubt this re-Barreling was done at times, and can be done today also, using old orphan DS Barrels elected to match the time poeriod of the PPS Frame.

A Colt 'Letter' would likely solve that question of course.

I myself do not know what a factory Cut-Away would be expected to bring on say Gunbroker, if this Revolver 'lettered' as having left the Colt Factory this way.

As you correctly point out, this is possibly not the same as, nor should be spoken of as, being a 'Fitz Special', since that phrase usually has come to denote a Bobbed Hammer and also a Cut-Away Trigger Bow which can actuall ybe attributed, one way or another, to the actual Hand of Mr. Fitzgerald.

But all this is a little vague or imperfect, since at least my understanding is, that such mods were done by Colts without Mr. Fitzgerald having touched them, as well as that Mr. Fitzgerald himself at times only did the Cut-Away and left the Hammer be as-is, or did a 'Hammer Bob' and left the Trigger Bow intact, and did either to Revolvers sent in for it which had already been in use a while and hence would never 'Letter' as having shipped that way, so...I guess we live with these vagueries of what to call these old variations for now, and even how to decide if a candidate is a Colt modification or a Modification done by someone else.

If it has the "VP" where it belongs to be a Colt Factory item, probably we would be alright to call it a "Fitz Special", if it in fact 'Letters' as having shipped that way, when it falls within the period when Mr. Fitzgerald was known to have been active at Colt...or if there is a chain of provenance which specificially mentions the modification or term, in cases where a Revolver was sent in for the mods, rather than having been ordered that way.

Where, Revolvers sent in for the modification some time after they had been bought and carried a while, to have the modifications done by Colt or done by Mr. Fitzgerald, would never 'letter' as having shipped that way...and might not have gotten a little 'Star' stamped on to them either, so, it is all a little messy! And, those s-h-o-u-l-d have the "VP' at the rear, but they may not.




So I am out of my depth on the aspect of proposing an evaluation for Value, as for whether on a gamble it would be a good investment or not at whatever the present Seller's price is.


I myself like old 'period' Cut Downs and Modifieds, whether done privately or by Colt's...so I would be happy, regardless.

I made a tribute to 'Fitz' out of a 1960s S&W Model 36 many years ago for Pocket Carry when I was riding my Motocycle a lot.

Does not work as well of course with the '5 Screw' era S&Ws...

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Ok. For some reason, Photobucket really degrades my pic quality. But...
The right side above the rear of trigger guard there is a fancy engraved. Looked like a vr to me. The left side above the rear of the trigger guard is a 3. It is a detective special and looks to be the original length of the barrel. Kinda cool little gun. The lock up is good. The guy told me, an older lady brought it in.

I looked it up too, I could see it after seeing this...
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2010/01/colt17-1.jpg
It looks like NO triangle, but its a gun made in 1932-33, right? Thanks.

Looks like a DS with a modified trigger guard.

Go to gunbroker and search Detective Special. You can go to advanced search and see what the market did in the last 90 days.

That will give you a feel for the market and you can compare value.

Unless you are able to verify factory modification, I still
see this gun as a fair condition shooter, assuming lockup and function are in good shape.

Proof house confirms dating based on serial number.

Hope this is helpful and best of luck whatever your decision.

gaucho1 said:

Looks like a DS with a modified trigger guard.

Go to gunbroker and search Detective Special. You can go to advanced search and see what the market did in the last 90 days.

That will give you a feel for the market and you can compare value.

Unless you are able to verify factory modification, I still
see this gun as a fair condition shooter, assuming lockup and function are in good shape.

Proof house confirms dating based on serial number.

Hope this is helpful and best of luck whatever your decision.

Click to expand...

Thanks gaucho.
Looks like a lot of fish without many bites. For the price I can get it, I would not make a profit, much less getting it lettered, heck, I would be in the black.
Thanks guys for all the feedback. I'm sorry to high jack the thread.
It's wild you join a site dedicated to singular brand only to ask about another (pretty bold for only 11 posts) brand all together. Thanks again.

1915 Colt Police Positive Special.

Before:



After cutting the barrel to 1 1/4" and spending hours polishing then nickel plating:





Here's a couple with black grips installed. These are vintage gun grips repros but I think they look great on the nickel.

Now that's without a doubt a belly gun!

Bet you get some muzzle flash from that flingot!

Too bad the original gun had to die to make this one, but man it's a sweet piece. Any accuracy and chrony tests? I mean even with the short sight radius....oh wait....

That is one sweet revolver twaits!

Dragon88 said:

Too bad the original gun had to die to make this one, but man it's a sweet piece. Any accuracy and chrony tests? I mean even with the short sight radius....oh wait....

Click to expand...

I actually had a hard time cutting it up at first but I'm glad I did now. There are hundreds of thousands of Police Positive Specials around and they don't have much collector value unless they are in really high condition. This one I bought from gunbroker for $175

My Big Bore Belly Re-Creations

First one is .45ACP the other .45 Colt

Model 36 "no dash"


Chiefs Special Airweight


Model 12 "no dash"