My “dad’s” gun...just arrived.

[KneverKnew]

This post is a continuation of my previous post, Double struck “Made in U.S.A.” 1905, about my search for a similar gun to my “dad’s” old 1905 nickel plated 38 special. Well I finally got it in my hands today. Some of you who have been following this story have been waiting for pictures, so here they are!
Please provide any information you can share on the date of manufacture (#410274) and if the picture clears up any questions of the originality of the nickel plating. Any other observations are also welcome.
I hope these come out big enough. Please let me know.

[Muley Gil]

Everything looks like original nickel to me. Is there a serial number written on the bottom of the box in grease pencil? Check the serial number that is stamped under the barrel. If there is a "B" stamped there, it shipped blue. A lack of a "B" indicates it shipped nickel.

It probably shipped between mid 1922 and 1927-28. Only a historical letter will tell you the exact shipping date. That letter will also tell you where it shipped.

[KneverKnew]

More pictures.
Does anyone know if Amazon Photos can be used as a picture host? Or a way to use photos from my phone to insert in line?

[gmborkovic]

Knew, you got a beauty. congrats.

[KneverKnew]

And...more...

[handejector]

The gun looks righteous to me. Did you find a star anywhere, or a date under the left grip?

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

Is there a serial number written on the bottom of the box in grease pencil?

In this era, the box would have the serial number in regular graphite pencil, not grease pencil.

[Absalom]

It would be safe to assume a date of manufacture somewhere in mid-to-later 1922. The MADE IN USA appeared in May in the low 400-thousands. It could have shipped a bit later, of course.

[KneverKnew]

And....
I think if you click on the thumbnails you get the full image.

[KneverKnew]

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

Everything looks like original nickel to me. Is there a serial number written on the bottom of the box in grease pencil? Check the serial number that is stamped under the barrel. If there is a "B" stamped there, it shipped blue. A lack of a "B" indicates it shipped nickel.

It probably shipped between mid 1922 and 1927-28. Only a historical letter will tell you the exact shipping date. That letter will also tell you where it shipped.

No B on barrel flat. There are N’s stamped on either side of grip under panels.
There is a pencil serial number on bottom of box, but alas, it’s the wrong number. Bummer.

[KneverKnew]

Originally Posted by handejector

The gun looks righteous to me. Did you find a star anywhere, or a date under the left grip?





In this era, the box would have the serial number in regular graphite pencil, not grease pencil.

The first thing I did was check for a star, the absence of a B on the barrel flat and any stamping sunder the grips. No dates, no stars and no B’s

[KneverKnew]

Only thing I find strange, with the fine condition of the apparent original nickel finish, is that the barrel has a number of old pitting marks and shallow rifling. That being said, I just fired the gun at a small stump at about 45 yards with some of my powder coated wad cutters and hit it just about every time. All shots landed very close to each other. But anyway, the pitting in the bore seems odd, considering the condition of the exterior.

[glowe]

I think I can narrow the ship date a little. Your patent box has a 1920 patent date, but it is estimated the box was not used until at least 1925, so with the mushroom shaped ejector rod knob ending in 1927, your gun most likely left the factory 1925 to early 1927.

I really want to say it is an original finish gun, BUT with the double struck MADE IN USA, the double struck "N" on the butt, and the pitting in the barrel, I am leaning towards a return to the factory, without a star or date stamp?? Also, your image of the barrel serial number looks wrong. I looked at a couple of my K frames from the same era and they have a fully finished flat and the serial number is raised around the edges from the stamping process. Yours looks flat and somewhat uneven with those heavy sanding marks.

[Eddie Southgate]

Looks original to me . Maybe shot a good bit with corrosive ammo and not cleaned much but not carried much if any.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by glowe

I think I can narrow the ship date a little. Your patent box has a 1920 patent date, but it is estimated the box was not used until at least 1925, so with the mushroom shaped ejector rod knob ending in 1927, your gun most likely left the factory 1925 to early 1927.
...

In that case, something doesn’t compute here. There is no wiggle room whatsoever on a 410-range being a 1922 production serial. And in contrast to the post-1929 years, in the 1920s the guns generally moved out and it’s highly unlikely one would have lingered for three years.

So if the patent box indicates that it is post-1925, I think your suspicions about the barrel may be well-founded and there may be underlying issues here.

[bigl1911]

The double stamp and the damage to the bottom of the grip have me questioning. Is it possible the factory double stamped? Nice gun either way..

Originally Posted by glowe

I think I can narrow the ship date a little. Your patent box has a 1920 patent date, but it is estimated the box was not used until at least 1925, so with the mushroom shaped ejector rod knob ending in 1927, your gun most likely left the factory 1925 to early 1927.

I really want to say it is an original finish gun, BUT with the double struck MADE IN USA, the double struck "N" on the butt, and the pitting in the barrel, I am leaning towards a return to the factory, without a star or date stamp?? Also, your image of the barrel serial number looks wrong. I looked at a couple of my K frames from the same era and they have a fully finished flat and the serial number is raised around the edges from the stamping process. Yours looks flat and somewhat uneven with those heavy sanding marks.

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by Absalom

In that case, something doesn’t compute here. There is no wiggle room whatsoever on a 410-range being a 1922 production serial. And in contrast to the post-1929 years, in the 1920s the guns generally moved out and it’s highly unlikely one would have lingered for three years.

So if the patent box indicates that it is post-1925, I think your suspicions about the barrel may be well-founded and there may be underlying issues here.

The box is 200,000 numbers newer than the revolver.

[ancient-one]

It is really a beautiful gun and something to be proud of. The double struck MADE IN USA raises a little question but it is so nice.

[LPD256]

I think it’s gorgeous regardless of any faults. 99% of people with the same birthdate of your gun are dead. And your gun still shoots. Perfect.

[Waveski]

To me the barrel condition and the rather pristine blast shield don't add up.

That said , the side plate fit , screw condition and overall appearance are beautiful. A revolver well worth having , and an interesting one at that.

[jmorris]

Beautiful gun! I have a blued 1905, made in 1905, and it’s nowhere near as pretty due to holster wear.

Mine was carried by one of my great grandfathers, as his duty gun as a sheriff in the 1900-1920 era, and was handed down through 3 generations to me, along with his Winchester 1873 (made around 1880).

[raljr1]

Nice.....

Robert

[KEN L]

Originally Posted by KneverKnew

This post is a continuation of my previous post, Double struck “Made in U.S.A.” 1905, about my search for a similar gun to my “dad’s” old 1905 nickel plated 38 special. Well I finally got it in my hands today. Some of you who have been following this story have been waiting for pictures, so here they are!
Please provide any information you can share on the date of manufacture (#410274) and if the picture clears up any questions of the originality of the nickel plating. Any other observations are also welcome.
I hope these come out big enough. Please let me know.

Very nice example! According to my database, your gun most likely shipped in the latter part of 1922, maybe Oct-Dec or possibly Jan/Feb time frame of 1923.

[stansdds]

It is a beautiful revolver. The pitting in the bore is most likely from corrosive primer ammo. Is it a refinished piece? Really hard to tell. The sideplate seam looks to be very tight and sharp edged. The screw heads do not appear to be damaged. Other than the double struck stamps, the roll marks look sharp. If it is a refinished piece, someone went to a lot of trouble to make it look original and that degree of work is a pretty rare thing. Just my opinion and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

[gkitch]

I second the corrosive ammo theory. I'd also add that we may be looking at lead buildup which is extremely common with swaged RN 38 bullets. Run a Lewis Lead Remover through it a few times and look again.

Your gun is pretty much identical to the one I stumbled into this week. Of course your gun and your box are nicer than mine in every way.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by Absalom

In that case, something doesn’t compute here . . . So if the patent box indicates that it is post-1925, I think your suspicions about the barrel may be well-founded and there may be underlying issues here.

I agree. As you probably know, I follow pre-WWII boxes closely and have never seen a patant box with a serial number before the latter half of the 1920s. This one would break that rule, but the style of the serial number seems way to deliberate. Kind of like a poor forger that takes too much time to sign someone else's name. The numbering style is very unusual at the least.

Supica claims that the patent box was not used until the end of the 1920s. He also states that most were numbered with grease pencil, not pencil???

NOTE: I just re-read Mulley's post and see the box serial number as 614XXX, so that now makes sense. Interesting thread.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by gkitch

I second the corrosive ammo theory. I'd also add that we may be looking at lead buildup which is extremely common with swaged RN 38 bullets. Run a Lewis Lead Remover through it a few times and look again.

Your gun is pretty much identical to the one I stumbled into this week. Of course your gun and your box are nicer than mine in every way.

Wow, I did not think of how close your serial number was to the OP's, 409695, less than 600 apart. gklitch has a box that I would consider as appropriate to the era. The problem with that box is that the serial number is different than the gun.
1920s era Nickel M&P 5-inch

Thanks for reminding me about your gun.

[gkitch]

Originally Posted by glowe

Wow, I did not think of how close your serial number was to the OP's, 409695, less than 600 apart. gklitch has a box that I would consider as appropriate to the era. The problem with that box is that the serial number is different than the gun.
1920s era Nickel M&P 5-inch

Thanks for reminding me about your gun.

Like the OP, my box seems right for the gun but shows a different serial number written on the back. Every detail about our guns is twilight zone similar except for the levels of condition.

[H Richard]

What I see in the barrel (2nd picture), appears to be leading build up. A good scrubbing with Chor-Boy or a Lewis lead remover might enhance the appearance some.

[handejector]

Seems to be much confusion injected about the box. Duh- read the data first, folks. The Op's box is NOT correct for the gun, and is OBVIOUSLY not original if you read the number. This gun came in the earlier hinged brown box.

This gun has been polished with something like Flitz. That's fine. It looks nice. I think it is leading some of you to believe it is refinished. I don't think so. The barrel number looks normal. Both "Made In USA" stamps are under the nickel. It is not the first double stamp I have seen. Stuff happens. The double stamp is not an indicator of a refinish. It is an indicator of a double stamp.