Anybody know what type of gun and grips Ed McGivern used during his speed shooting during the 30s? I know he used S&W DAs, but I don't know which model or if he used target grips, etc.

thanks for any info
Pete

Judging by the pictures from his book "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting," the stocks for the most part were pretty much factory "service" grips and a few Roper type are shown.

From what I gather from an article, I think it was from Guns & Ammo, the S&Ws were factory with factory springs, stocks--meaning no lightened springs, etc.

In photos of him giving demonstrations, guns in holsters/drawing/aiming/firing, they looked pretty much like right out of the box.

The "Record Gun" was a 38 M&P Target.
I'll move this post to the gun forum.
You might even get to see a pic of the record gun there.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I think the record was set with a stock 1905 Target handejector in 38 spl. I don't recall the S/N but it had a brass plate added to the side plate with a the details of the record. A few years ago S&W sold some Ed McGivern classic models with a brass plate on the side plate.

Tim.

The above gun was serial number 640792 and was given to Doug Wesson by McGivern on Oct 10, 1935. An engraved plate was added to the sideplate of the gun citing the two records -- A 5 shot group in 9/20th of a second and a 5 shot group in 2/5th of a second. McGivern shot many records with various guns, Colts, S&Ws, etc. A must read for any gun buff is Ed's book " Fast & Fancy Revolver Shooting."

I was able to spend an hour at the NRA Firearms Museum in Fairfax, VA last month, and was enthralled by the Ed McGivern display case. He spent most of his life as a Montanan, and I was fortunate enough to see him present and prove his prowess while I was grade school (in the highschool gym, no less - those were the days). I still remenber that traveling case of his, and how unbelievably fast he was.

Most of the revolvers displayed had standard S&W stocks, but there were a few customs sets, also.

Here are some photos of his display at the museum, with many thanks to the NRA. If you ever have the chance, I encourage you to pay a visit there. Allow lots of time, and bring your friends - it's free.

I was particularily interested in his 2" 1905 HEs. I have one with a S/N that is in between the two displayed. Nice Gun.

Side Note:
Most all of Ed's guns displayed had been donated by Mrs. Walter Groff. Does anybody know who she is or have any other info on her?

Attached Images

	E McGivern 1.jpg (87.5 KB, 177 views)
	E McGivern 2.jpg (93.9 KB, 227 views)
	E McGivern 3.jpg (84.2 KB, 150 views)
	E McGivern 4.jpg (97.1 KB, 149 views)
	E McGivern 5.jpg (73.0 KB, 161 views)

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Mitch
SWCA 2438

Mitch D:

Thank you for the photos. Having a closer view than what I could ascertain in his book,
it looks like they weren't quite as stock as I thought but at least had high front sights
put on them. To me, this makes sense in being able to find the front blade and zero in
on a target, especially an aerial one.

Here is the first record-setting gun. This was given back to the factory, in exchange for
the 2nd gun, that Ed was referencing.



Later, Mike Priwer

Nice pic Mike, compliments to your photographer......~

Neat revolver, too!

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.............SmithNut

You will also note that at least 3 of those guns are not wearing factory stocks. Kearsarge and Roper's city (drool!) McGivern was a bit more fond of the Kearsarge stocks and owned several sets of them, more than we see in this photo. I wonder where the rest of them are today...

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Geoff. Since 1960.

To everyone for the info and pictures. Awesome stuff!

;:^)

stbryson:
Thank you for that info. I'd have to say his investments in experiments paid off. The short interval time measurement was a very interesting side of Ed McGiverns work. EM was truely an artist and a scientist.

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Mitch
SWCA 2438

I'm a nubie to the forum, but I think I can add a little info on the McGivern-Groff connection.

As a distant relative of the Groff's, I became the unwitting caretaker of much of the Groff/McGivern history in the form of letters, photographs, 16 mm movies, leather, and some of their handguns. Walter and Peggy Groff were dear friends of Ed McGivern and his wife. Walter was Ed's understudy for many years and became quite an accomplished shooter in his own right. Ed McGivern was a sign painter by trade, but the Groff's did help him with financing some of his shooting.

Ed McGivern was also an expert witness in dozens of murder and firearms related trials.

For the most part, Ed McGivern did not alter his guns. He did tweak them a little, mostly sights and grips, but essentially left them unchanged. He was fond of S&W and did much of his shooting with them, including the K22 and the K38. He was not sponsored nor paid by S&W. Later in his life he had some very complementary things to say about Colt and Ruger handguns. He used H&R’s including 22 cal SA’s, DA’s, and the USRA. He mostly used leather goods by “Tio” Sam Myres, but also used Brill and Eubanks. He was very enthusiastic of Kearsarge grips and had several of them custom made to fit his hand.

While known for his fast draw accuracy, McGivern also experimented with distance shooting with revolvers including 300 yds with the 22 cal USRA and up to 600 yds with a S&W .357!

I hope to have many of McGivern’s (non-personal) letters scanned and publicly available online in the next year through a museum. He was a truly fascinating man!

I’ve included some photos of a K22, K38, .357 and one of Ed McGivern's Sam Myres Buscadero two-gun rigs. Hope you find them interesting.

Jim

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WoW Jim,

What an entrance. Some fantastic history and guns. Thank you for sharing them with us. I will look forward to more in the future.

Great information here, and I second Dan's greeting to Jim O. Welcome!

I have been reading some classic shooting literature recently, and McGivern's "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" is one of them. If there are people here who aren't familiar with that book, you can get access to a good portion of it (though not all) through Google Books. Here's a link that drops you into the middle around page 80:

Ed McGivern's Book of Fast and Fancy ... - Google Books

This work is available as an e-book. I downloaded it from Amazon onto my Kindle, which is usually with me. That way whenever I have a few minutes free, no matter where I am I can just jump into McGivern's book and read a few pages.

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David Wilson

"A 5 shot group in 9/20th of a second and a 5 shot group in 2/5th of a second."

I can't even begin to imagine that! Seems impossible to be that fast, much less hit anything!

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Misty

In his book there is a chapter about "mutilated" revolvers. McGivern did not like the Fitz modifications. He really disliked cutting away the trigger guard. In the same chapter he states that he leaves the internals alone. He went with stock parts.He wasn't a fan of messing with the trigger either. But he aknowledged that sometimes cutting down a barrel, changing a hammer/trigger, changing the sights and so on aren't bad things. I believe he felt that the internals should be left alone. He said that alot of shooting and "dry-snapping" was all that was required to slick up an action. That's my impression.

But there is also a chapter about grips. On one of his revolvers he taped a sponge to the backstrap and then used it to set (or break) one of his many records.He liked the Magna grips, the S&W grip adapter, Pachmyer adapters, Ropers and so on. He also mentioned Sedgley several times.

So he didn't have any trouble with changing grips.

His book is interesting. It's written in a much older style (takes a little patience) and the photos aren't as clear as I am used to in 2009, but it's still a neat book. As a matter of fact I've gotten several good shooting tips from it. The basics are still the basics.

One tidbit I got out of the book was controlling the trigger return just as carefully as controlling the squeeze.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Absolutely. Many years ago at the academy we were at the range. I was doing okay, but something was wrong. One of the instructors was a retired cop and a competitve shooter. He watched me for a couple minutes and figured it out right away. I was taking my finger off the trigger on the return. Next time around my finger stayed on the trigger and whamo my shooting improved instantly. Looking back at that instructor he was an old time revolver shooter and probably very familiar with McGivern.

All your collective posts are very interesting and informative and take me back to the days when I aspired to be like Mr. Ed McGivern as a revolver shooter. Thanks for the photos and the history, he was a role model for me and many young shooters. Although I Never attained the level of expertise he possessed, I always had it as a goal and never quit trying. We need folks just like him today and others to appreciate what they do. The mention of the shooting demonstration being conducted in a "School Gym" reminds me that this would be impossible and unheard of today. Again, my thanks for the interesting posts.

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198