Since S&W won't make one, I made one myself! (with the help of Bowen Classic Arms)


I picked this one up Thursday, but didn't get to shoot it until today. I supplied Mr. Bowen with all the parts. Here's the specs:
-Pre-Model 14 frame (had a chopped barrel)
-NOS Model 17 cylinder
-NOS Model 16-4 8-3/8" full lug barrel
-Smooth presentation target grips
-Vintage Leupold 2X scope
-Vintage Buehler mount and rings

I went with the Model 17 cylinder so it would have recessed chambers like all good magnums should! I kept the original early upturned hammer, but found today that it isn't very compatible with a scope, so I'll prbably change it to a newer .500 target hammer. The only ammo I have so far is one box of Speer hollowpoints. Best group was about 1" at 25 yards. Mr. Bowen got much better groups (5/8")with Federal 100 grain jacketted soft points but those are backordered until next month. Just for fun, I put a cylinder of .32 Long Wadcutters through it. No muzzle flip at all! Like shooting .22 shorts.
I've got more than 50 handguns but this is my first one ever with a scope. I still don't know what I'll use it for, but it's exactly what I wanted.

BTW, since it is going to be a shooter, against Hamilton's whishes, I opted NOT to refinish the frame. It's got some good holster rubs but that just gives it character. I won't have to worry about how I carry it or where I lay it down.

Chris

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Chris

I'd leave the hammer as it is . The early fish-hook hammers are
about as classy as they get. Learn how to shoot double-action, and
your thumb problem will go away !

The gun came out nice. I'd have opted for a 4" or 5" barrel, but
you have what you want. I agree about the finish . If its a shooter,
which of course it is, then the finish is way down the list of priorities.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Hamilton does great work. You will be more pleased the longer you have and use it.

Mike,
I already have a 16-4 with a 4" barrel that I plan to modify to .327 so I wanted the other extreme. Looking at some load data, I should be able to get near 2,000 fps with the 8-3/8 with the right powder and a light bullet without even pushing the upper envelope of pressure. Sounds like this is gonna be fun!

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Chris,

Nice job and it sure got my attention. I have a M16-4 6" and have been thinking of getting it converted to .327 Federal, but hated the thought of altering a mint condition 16-4.

Your conversion looks to be a great alternative since I also have a 8 3/8" 16-4 barrel and a "donor" gun in mind I could use.

Question... parts aside, if you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of doing the conversion?

PM me if you prefer.

Thanks,

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

chris, you should be able to hit a deer on signal mountain from your house with that one. i like it. lee

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VFW, NRA, VVA, S&WCA 1758

I too would keep the hammer and maybe see if you can come up with a King hammer offset. Glad you got what you were wanting.

And now I must add yet another dream gun to the lengthening list.

I didn't even know I wanted something like this until I saw the pictures. Guess I'd better start collecting the pieces.

A beauty. Congratulations.

David Wilson

Great looking work. We are all duly envious of the velocity and potential accuracy. Not to mention light recoil.

Just curious, are the Model 17 cylinders heat-treated sufficiently to be so rebored and used, or was yours re-treated?

Again, neat project.

Regards,

Dyson

Hamilton measures the cylinder hardness before doing any work. He said the newer ones (as in post-Model Number) are all heat treated sufficiently. There's also a whole lot more wall thickness when boring for a .32 than the Model 19's which use the same diameter cylinders. Plenty of built in safety factor. It's just like a Model 27 compared to a Model 29 cylinder.

Chris

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

I am glad to know I am not the only one who does things like this - but I never admit it, publicly.

Seriously, that is an amusing little toy you have had made-up and should prove to be a lot more useful than any .22 Jet.

I had thought a lot about building some kind of centerfire .22, but I think the .327 will do everything a .22 would do with less headaches. I can shoot 4 different cartridges in it (plus .32 ACPs if you ask oldtimers) and a good variety of bullet weights.

Lee, I might just try it on a backyard doe if I have a chance. Inside of 50 yards, it should do the trick. The old .32-20 rifle was considered a fine deer cartridge in its day. The right bullet out of the 8-3/8" tube should be quite a bit more effective.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

How long did Hamilton take?

Only about 2 months, but like I said, there wasn't any refinishing involved.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Hello cgt4570
I Live 15 Minutes from Hamilton Bowen's shop and have met and spoke with the man at several guns shows. I am just curious here, if one was to take a standard Model 16-4 to him, would Lengthening the Cylinder thoats be all that has to be done to utilize this .327 Magnum Cartridge ? In essence, is the standard length .32 H&R Magnum cylinder Long enough to make this conversion work ? Regards, Hammerdown

Hammerdown, I thought the same exact thing, however I am really afraid to mess with the original cylinder on a 16-4 so not to ruin the value. Now what blued cylinder would work? I thought to get a model 16 cylinder in 32 mag but numrich is out. I would think the 16-4 would be a hoot in this new caliber.
CGT4570, let us know how it shoots. Especially interested in the accuracy with the scope. Have Fun!!

Hello Peyton
I too have an original 16-4 and my only Fear at this Point is Killing the collector value by Modifying it . However, Depending on what Hamilton Bowen charges and I know he aint Cheap, and if you did not have one all ready A Model 16-4 revolver can be had for a Grand or so to modify it by lengthening the cylinder throats may be a more reasonable way of Obtaining this caliber in a S&W revolver is what I was thinking. I Bought mine when they were not so Nut's on price giving $600.00 for mine N.I.B. so a conversion of mine would certainly make perfect sense here, Thus allowing me the Liberty of using .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum and the new .327 round would make it much more Universal. A quick adding up of his Labor and parts menu for making this conversion shows me it will typically run $1008.00 in Labor and Parts combined Plus the price of a Frame Provided by the Buyer has to be considered here and this would be using a stainless cylinder & Barrel intended for the 617 making a revolver a sort of pinto which would not be attractive to me. If the standard factory .32 H&R Magnum cylinder was of ample length to do this, it would seem far more applicable and less Labor Intense to convert a model 16-4 to me, rather than Build a complete revolver, or perhaps if the .32 H&R Magnum cylinder would work in this application, and a spare one could be found with the crane and extractor perhaps Hamilton Bowen could build a convertible for you, Thus Not Kill the collector value of the standard 16-4 revolver... Hammerdown

Nice job! Sometimes, custom is the only way to get what you want.

I have been searching for a Model 16/K-32 that I can afford for many years. No luck. I think I may have Bowen build one for me.

Currently I have a very nice extra Model 15, a pretty clean 6 inch K-22 barrel and a really excellent Model 17 cylinder. If a real K-32 doesn't come along soon, I'm sending the Model 15 .38 Special revolver, K-22 barrel and Model 17 cylinder to Hamilton, have the barrel rebored and rifled for .32, have the cylinder chambered to .327 Magnum and the rollmarkings on the barrel remarked to ".327 Magnum Ctg" or something.

A few years back, Hamilton Bowen made me a gorgeous .45 Colt 1926-style sixshooter from a .38-44 Heavy Duty with a 4 inch barrel. What a tremendous piece of work! A K-32 Magnum of the same quality gets more appealing to me every day. When I hold it and look at it, I get a peaceful, warm feeling inside, a feeling like finding the perfect new puppy, or seeing your missing 10 year old tomcat make it back home intact.

Yes! He quoted me $95 to lengthen the chambers in my 4" 16-4. Very easy to do. I'll probably go for it. He does a very neat job and I don't think it would hurt the value at all. I'm about 2 hours from him myself. It's worth the drive to save shipping on a gun, but for the simple lengthening, all he needs is the cylinder. The reasons I went with the Model 17 cylinder for mine was I wanted recessed heads like all magnums used to be. (I also already had it in my parts stash)
Chris

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Chris, that is a beautiful, versatile revolver you had made up. I love it.

(Worse than that, I want it... or a clone. S&W should make that gun)

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S&WCA #2018

Very nice, looks like a lot of fun to shoot. I like revolvers you can shoot different ammo in ie 32 long, 32 mag and 327 mag.

Troy

Hello Chris
Thank's, That is what I Wanted to know. What a better way to Have a .327 Magnum with Full Lug to tame recoil a little better ? and less than A Hundred Bucks while you wait for it to be completed. Neat. Hammerdown

Hello
I E-Mailed MR Hamilton Bowen Yesterday and asked him what would be involved in converting my Model 16-4 from .32 H&R magnum to the new exciting .327 magnum Caliber and shown below is his first response. I have since, responded asking him if he Re-Blues the cylinder, if he feels it will match the rest of my handgun and am awaiting his response. For those Interested in converting their Model 16-4's here is the Official response from Hamilton Bowen. Regards, Hammerdown







Dear Sir:



Thanks for your inquiry.



Yes, we can lengthen M16 .32 H&R chambers to accomodate the .327 cartridge. We have a dedicated reamer that does not engage the throat section. If the throats are undersize, we can hone them to the diameter desired. Cost is $95 plus $15 return HIS via UPS.



You would need to leave the cylinder with us for a couple of weeks. We prefer to reblue since the operation leaves a white touch-off ring at the breech end and removes material from the chambers--rebluing will help prevent rust. Feel free to drop off the part at the shop but please do call ahead as I am out occasionally.



We've built a number of .327s now, on everything from Ruger Single-Sixes to K-frame S&Ws and are much excited by this cartridge. If you visit the NEWS section of our website, then the 'Past Press' subsection, you will find a couple of articles about such guns that might be of interest.



Thanks for your interest.



Sincerely yours,



Hamilton S. Bowen

Bowen Classic Arms Corp.





The Candidate.. S&W Model 16-4 .32 H&R Magnum Target Revolver

Hi
I Just received the final response and answers to my questions to MR Bowen. here is what he had to day. Regards, Hammerdown








Hello MR Bowen
That sounds great, But I have a Few more question's. When you Re-Blue the cylinder, will it have the same level of color and shine that it does now so that it still match's my Gun's finish ? Will The revolver still be able to fire .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum rounds after it's conversion with the same level of accuracy it has now in factory form ? One other slight concern I have is that the model 16-4 has become a bit of a collectible status due to their low production, with this change will it be evident it has been altered ? If you would not mind, being that I am so close Living in Knoxville could I hand deliver and pick up the cylinder if you were to perform the conversion ? I will await your response.






Dear Sir:

We do not repolish the exterior of the cylinder. Color might not be exactly the same because we do not use the same chemicals and process as S&W. Yes, gun will still shoot 32 S&W and .32 H&R ammo. Cannot speak to accuracy. Probably not, since the bullets will have further to jump unsupported to the throat section. Since the chambers are deeper, a knowledgable examiner may be able to detect the modification.

Feel free to drop off the part but please call ahead.

Many thanks,

Hamilton S. Bowen
Bowen Classic Arms Corp.

Hamilton's reply makes sense, of course. But remember the relationship between the .32 H&R and .327 is essential the same as that between .38 Special and .357 Magnum, and we all know .38s can be quite accurate in .357 chambers. My own 16-4s are killers with .32 Long wadcutters. Same sort of thing. Hamilton is a cautious man by nature. He will not stick his neck out and make a promise he knows someone may argue just to be arguing.

I would not be pessimistic about the accuracy issue, nor would I be overly worried about modifying the gun, since it is hardly a collector's piece, though, the crazy way things are going, it someday may be. Just my .02.

hammerdown, give us an update please. I also have a 16-4 that I would like to get converted.

Hello Peyton
You Got it. I will be doing this project in the near future... Hammerdown

K-32s weren't collector's items either, at one time. And some folks thought they were pretty clever to ream the chambers of 38/44 Outdoorsman and Heavy Duty revolvers from .38 Special to .357 Magnum, but if you ask about doing that on this forum today, you'll get a near-universal, "Hell no!"

I wonder what not-too-common but not-too-expensive gun available today, is the K-32 of tomorrow.

Well, I'll make some nominations: 696, 296, 547.

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David Wilson

Hello

I finally took the Plunge. I rode out to Hamilton Bowen's shop yesterday and dropped off my Model 16-4 cylinder to him. He said it will be less than two weeks for him to Ream it out to .327 Magnum so I am awaiting his expertise in this project...I learned from him that these white rings are left internally after he reams the cylinder out to .327 Magnum so he Re-Blues the Internal cylinder along with the face of the cylinder...I had met Hamilton before at Local Gun shows so he gave me a tour of his shop while I was there, which was real neat.. Hammerdown

Well keep us posted, now who is selling the ammo?? I have not seen any for sale.

Hello Peyton
Will Do. I am not sure where ammo can be had. An Internet search should Pull some up. Hamilton Had a Hundred rounds of used once fired cases he agreed to let go to me when I Pick up my cylinder, so now reloading Info. will be my search... Federal is the Only manufacturer of it, I know Starline Reloading Brass has not made any as of Yet... Hammerdown

Damn, now I really regret selling my Model 16 in .32 Magnum. I bought two of them at the time and gave one to my son, who still has his. Hmmm, the wife and I recently bought him a house, so I wonder if he would consider doing me a favor?

A gun for a house, that's a trade I'd make every time!

As for ammo, I bought a couple boxes off the shelf at Gander Mountain in Knox. I still have a bunch on backorder from Cabela's and Midway.
In the meantime, I've got a case of .32 Long Wadcutters that feel like .22 shorts with the long barrel.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Hello Chris
You scored those right under my Nose. I Live less than 10 Minutes from Gander Mountain. Ya Snooze, Ya Loose.. I Guess. For now, I will take the once fired brass MR Bowen has offered and Roll My Own... Hammerdown

cgt4570 congrats on the new gun I think it is great. It's cool that you went with the model 17 cylinder to do the recessed cylinder. That is a very nice touch. Sometimes its nice to look at a new gun and think "Man, this gun is awsome. Now what am I going to do with it?" Have fun shooting. I'm sure I am one of many who are jealous.

Hi
I got a call from Hamilton Bowen Thursday to tell me my Smith & Wesson Model 16-4 cylinder was finished. I had Taken it to him to make it into a .327 Magnum. I drove out to his Shop and Picked my cylinder up in person then I came home & Put it together Late Thursday evening. I awoke Early Yesterday morning to assemble some Hand Loads for it. I Tried Three different hand loads and found that it Liked Two out of Three loads I had tried. I Loaded 12.0 Grains of Alliant 2400 Powder and used a 90 Grain Sierra copper Jacketed Hollow pint and a CCI Magnum Primer. The Load showed promise, but I feel Crimp is very crucial in Loading for this round and I had a Heavy crimp much more than I Needed. Report was a Lot Louder than the standard .32 H&R Magnum cartridge and recoil were about Double of what I had been used to shooting in the revolver. That made Perfect sense as the Pressure of the .32 H&R Magnum rounds I had been shooting was around 20,000 and this new .327 Magnum Cartridge is around 40,000.






I Then shot my last Loads which I used some Hodgen's Powder called Tight Group dispensing 3.6 Grains of Powder, a CCI Magnum primer and a Rainier 100 Grain Flat Point Bullet. This Load seemed to shine in this caliber. I managed to shoot a 4 shot cluster before making sight adjustments taking it to the Ten Ring, but Ran out of rounds. The Primers exhibited a bot of flatness, but I Noticed the extracted shells were a Tad Bit dirty Indicating to me I needed to increase the Powder a bit. The Load of 3.6 was a starting load so I came home and Re-loaded again Taking it to 4.6 Grains of Tight Group which is almost maximum. All In All, I felt the first time out with it that it shot well and I feel by Playing with the load a bit it will fair better the next time as I am Getting used to the caliber and what it Likes as far as Loads go. This caliber sure is fun to Play with and I am Glad I had the gun Modified for it. Here is the Target I shot with the Experimental Loads using Tight Group at the 20 Yard line... Hammerdown

you might try a std primer instead of the mag when using titegroup. that powder is a fast burner like 231 etc. the pressures will drop also and the accuracy may pick up. you also shouldn't have flattened primers. usually a sign that the load is getting warm. there is quite a bit of loading data out on this cartridge now. i think hodgdon has some on their web site too. i sure like your new gun. smith should make something like this and without the idiot lock. think they would sell a ton of them.

Hello Perrazi
I used the Magnum primers instead of standard's as I have more of them. I have found in the past that the Magnum primers make the load about a half grain hotter is all, so given the fact I was on the Bottom of the load being dispensed at 3.6 it did not rattle any concerns. The slightly flattened primers usually do mean a warm load, but in this case I feel I was very safe at the Powder charge I was using. Hodgen says it can go to 4.7 Grains and for the Most part expansion of 20 % above and beyond has been shown to work safe in most Cases, but I never exceed the Maximum Powder level's when Re-Loading.



I cleaned and trimmed all the Brass I had on hand. I was shocked to se it ran as much as .060" In case Length differences in the 50 round's I had on hand. The Used Brass came from Bowen and he said it had been Re-Loaded Once Past the factory Load, so that told me he was really Pushing the Pill to stretch it that far. I had to go with used brass at this time, as Loaded ammo is Non existent unless you want to use the 20 Round self defense stuff out there. if anyone reading this, has some used Brass to sell, I am Game for it, Just PM me. I have a W.T.B. Add for it, and am Hoping someone will be so Kind to share some of their used Brass with me so I can keep Loading and enjoying this round...







Currently S&W is only making a performace Center-J-Frame in this round. That is not my idea of a True Target Model, so that is why I decided to get this one Modified. I don't think they will come out with a revolver in K-Frame with the Underlug like these 16-4's were as they seem to now focus on 2 Piece barrels, Light weight designs and a more economical to make style revolver, Yet their Prices are not Timid being at a Grand for the one currently Offered. I feel if they ever did offer this size frame in a Target sighted model, They would not be able to keep them in stock from Buyer demand... Hammerdown

Hello
Yesterday I Put together & shot some .32 S&W Long Caliber loads to see how well they grouped out of my Newly Modified Bowen conversion revolver. I was a Bit skeptical of how well they would group after Bowen lengthened the cylinder throats a full 1/8", But as you can see once I got the elevation adjusted it grouped nicely proving in this case that Bullet Jump did not seem to matter changing calibers in this revolver anyways...The cluster of six shots shown measured 1/2" which was shot at the 20 Yard line from a sand Bag.. Hammerdown

that looks great. what was the bullet used? have an 83/8 32 magnum i may have to have converted. sounds like there is no down side in regard to accuracy with shorter ammo.

Hello Perazzi
I used a 100 Grain Rainer Ballistics Bullet. It was a Hollow Point but they do sell Flat Points as well. Great Bullets that are Super accurate at about half the cost of Hornady's or Sierra's. See The Link below. It to me is a Win, Win situation converting an Model 16-4 revolver to this new caliber...

Rainier Ballistics, mainframe