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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:11 AM
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Default .44 Magnum question

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Originally Posted by Doc44
Actually, the rarest guns are 4-screw revovlers without a model number (at least for the 44 Magnum as they were made within the narrow serial number range of approximately S167800 to S184000).

Bill

Bill,

I just wanted to double check on this... 4 screw, no model are not as common as the 5 screw?
The SCS&W shows the 5 screw pre-29 valued higher than the 4 screw pre-29.

Do you have any idea of how many 4 screw pre-29's were made within that narrow s/n range?

I really need to type up a "cheat sheet" and carry it with me. Like I mentioned before, everytime I learn something new, it only points out how much I don't know!

Thanks!
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Old 08-13-2009, 12:00 PM
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Linda...the number of 44 Magnums made with a 5-screw frame is estimated at 6500. In the serial number range I mentioned there are 16,200 revolvers. These 16,200 include all of the N-frame models in production at the time (44 Magnum, 1950 Target 44/45s, .357 Magnum, Highway Patrolman). I have no way of knowing, but if 25 percent of the guns made in this serial number range were 44 Magnums, then the number of non-model marked 4-screw 44 Magnums would be 4050.

I believe 5-screw 44 Magnums are valued higher because they are the "original" configuration for this revolver and many were shipped in the first year.

Gary Garbrecht, a good friend of mine and well known S&W collector who passed away several years ago, always felt the 4-screw, non-model marked 44 Magnum, or what he called the "Transition 44 Magnum" was yet to come into its own and be fully appreciated by collectors.

Maybe his prediction will come true, as they are a scarce variation of this revolver.

Bill

Last edited by Doc44; 08-13-2009 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:17 PM
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Thanks, Bill

I recently got a blued, 6 1/2" barrel, non model stamped 29, 4 screw. It came with the blue "S&W .44 Magnum" presentation case and tools. The lining in the case is fairly worn and the screwdriver is the blued steel knurled one.

It's in the S177,xxx range and was shipped in June of 1958.

Overall the finish looks very good but I think it might have had some cold blue touch ups in a few areas (muzzle and under the barrel lug - it appears it might have been shot from a rest).

The S&W logo on the right side looks fine and under a loop, you can see the "pucker" from where it was stamped (something I think would surely be gone if it was refinished).

I haven't taken any pics of it yet but will post them when I do.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:41 PM
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Default Boy I am glad

I saw this thread as I was getting ready to trade one of my pre-model 4 screws off. I think I'll hang on to it now.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:18 AM
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Default This is a fascinating area.

Linda ,and Doc.

I have records of S175xxx , S17624x , and S1822xx, being 4 screw non model marked Highway Patrolman.
Lindas' 4 screw falls within these runs. Maybe the 4 screw 44 Magnum was made in small batches ,,to order ,back then.

I personally feel that 4 screw non model marked N frames were produced in smaller numbers than Docs estimate. Maybe closer to 12000 to 14000.
This is only from keeping records of Ser #s that fall into this range. Not from any long term experience such as Docs.

S1829xx is a model marked 28. this eliminates some on the end of the equation.

Hope this helps.

Regards ,,Allen
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:05 AM
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Four Screw model N-Frames are interesting guns. In talking the 44 Magnum, the Model marked 4 Screws are rare...and I wouldn't hesitate in saying the non-model marked 4-screws are scarce...

It is an interesting thing, that many collectors actively pursue the 5-Screw guns and place a high value on them. Yet, the 4-Screw guns would see less interest...

giz
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
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Four Screw model N-Frames are interesting guns. In talking the 44 Magnum, the Model marked 4 Screws are rare...and I wouldn't hesitate in saying the non-model marked 4-screws are scarce...

It is an interesting thing, that many collectors actively pursue the 5-Screw guns and place a high value on them. Yet, the 4-Screw guns would see less interest...

giz
Kinda like Non-registered magnums are scarcer than RM but less sought after
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Old 08-14-2009, 02:30 PM
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Default A couple more Allen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen-frame View Post
Linda ,and Doc.

I have records of S175xxx , S17624x , and S1822xx, being 4 screw non model marked Highway Patrolman.
Lindas' 4 screw falls within these runs. Maybe the 4 screw 44 Magnum was made in small batches ,,to order ,back then.

I personally feel that 4 screw non model marked N frames were produced in smaller numbers than Docs estimate. Maybe closer to 12000 to 14000.
This is only from keeping records of Ser #s that fall into this range. Not from any long term experience such as Docs.

S1829xx is a model marked 28. this eliminates some on the end of the equation.

Hope this helps.

Regards ,,Allen
I ahave two 4 screw pre-29's one is in the S170XXX range and the other is in S172XXX
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:42 PM
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Allen...I was only trying to estimate the number of non-model marked, 4-screw 44 Magnums. You are correct that for other models such as the HP and .357 Magnum, the serial number range of non-model marked, 4-screw guns may be slightly different.

Bill
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Old 08-14-2009, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 29aholic View Post
I saw this thread as I was getting ready to trade one of my pre-model 4 screws off. I think I'll hang on to it now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizamo View Post
Four Screw model N-Frames are interesting guns. In talking the 44 Magnum, the Model marked 4 Screws are rare...and I wouldn't hesitate in saying the non-model marked 4-screws are scarce...

It is an interesting thing, that many collectors actively pursue the 5-Screw guns and place a high value on them. Yet, the 4-Screw guns would see less interest...

giz
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:55 PM
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If I remember correctly, the order for the removal of the top screw was in September 1957, and the order for the model numbers was in June of 1958. This is about a 9 month theoretical window for the non model marked 4 screws to be made. We all know that there are transitions at the factory, so I suppose it is possible to find model marked 5 screws! Basically there cannot be too many. Mine is a 171xxx serial.

Good discussion. I did not realize there would be collector interest in this way. I just considered it a pre 29.

Thank for the information
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:11 PM
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Very interesting thread. I just picked up a non model 29 four screw the other day. Serial # 174xxx. I didn't realize I had gotten something as rare as seems to be.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:13 AM
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Richard...deletion of the upper side plate screw was directed by S&W in 1956 and model numbers were assigned in 1957. There are no reported model marked 5-screw 44 Magnums, although some 5-screw revolvers were shipped in mid-57 and have serial numbers in the S171000 to S175000 range (higher than would be expected for a 5-screw). I guess S&W found a few 5-screw frames laying around and turned them into 44 Magnums.

Bill
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357 magnum, 44 magnum, garbrecht, highway patrolman, k-22, model 29, n-frame, patrolman, presentation, screwdriver, transition

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