I have been searching and searching the net to learn more about what makes a good home defense round. After reading several reviews I wondered how accurate these reviews can really be. How often does one actually get the opportunity to shoot a bad guy?

I have heard the terms "stopping power", "penetration", and "expansion" time and time again. Then I proceeded to read about several ballistic tests which see like Japanese to me. I know that different rounds work better in certain revolvers.

Two questions...

1. What home defense round do you have in your revolver right now...and why?

2. Can you recommend a good home defense round for my S&W 15 .38 Special with a 4 inch barrel?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Scotty

Just get a good +P self defense round for your model 15.
You will drive your self crazy reading and getting every ones
opinion. Don

__________________
"Don't worry be happy"

Remington or Federal 38+P 158gr lead hollowpoint "FBI" load
or Federal 38 +P+ 147gr Hydra Shok

You will drive your self crazy reading and getting every ones
opinion. Don[/QUOTE]



That's the best advise.

When dealing with modern American premium defense ammo, there is no "best".

What is on top in one test will be number 2 or 3 in another test.
For the .38 Special, most any premium +P round in anything from 125 grain to 158 grain will be as good as any other.

Personally, I like the +P 158 grain, lead, semi-wadcutter, hollow point.
This is variously known as the FBI, Chicago, St Louis, LAPD, New Orleans etc, etc round.
The street cops called it the ".38 SPLAT" for the sound it supposedly made when it hit.

This was the round that pretty well ended police complaints about the .38 Special being a "widow maker" after many failures to stop with the old .38 round nose lead round.
Its also one of the cheapest .38 Special rounds, even in a premium brand.

Other than Speer Short Barrel Gold Dots I prefer the Federal 110+P+ Controlled Expansion JHP. Here is one recovered from a rapist that tried to put a knife in me. I was carrying my issue S&W Mod 15 4" It opened to .612 through the heart, into the lower lobe of the lung and lodged in the fatty tissue just prior to exiting the back. They called it the Treasury Load.

__________________
20 years Mil, 18 yrs Sac P.D.

Glaser Safety Slugs are the safest in home round. They will not penetrate a normal wall (sheet rock to sheet rock) but they will do a number on you. On the REI (Relative Encapacitance Index) a 9mm Glaser has the same stopping power (one shot stop) as a 44 magnum with hollow points. They are specifically designed to overcome over penetration, ricochets and to put 100% of the kinetic energy into the target

My 15-2 4" stays loaded with 158 gr +p LSWCHP. aka "FBI load" This does not change whether I am at home, or on the street. IMHO, if it is good enough for the FBI, it is good enough for me.

P.S. ammo selection is very caliber, and for that fact barrel length specific. This is the only caliber I do not use a jacketed bullet in.

Agreed.

The longer you are into guns the less you'll be concerned about exotic ammo.

Frankly, I'm not even sure you need +P ammo. I've interviewed several gunshot survivors, some were shot with .38 specials, they all said it was "like a ball of fire" or something like that. None were unaffected by the hot lead in their bodies, all were instantly disabled. However, none were on drugs.

An associate of mine, a large, strong black belt (one of my instructors) was killed with a .32 auto in the upper back area from quite a distance.

Bullet placement in what's important, not the type of ammo.

158 LHP (aka FBI load) is tops any brand- also try Speer 135 Gold dot JHP EXCELLENT load but expensive (how much is your hide worth?

The number one round in most circles is the "FBI". Its proven by LE as the best for a 38 special. Also was used in a lot of model 19/66 by officers as there round vs the 357 rounds. A 4 inch 38 with fixed sights was designed by Smith and Wesson to shoot POA with a 158 gr bullet. The model 15 is really a target version of the famous model 10. I have both a model 10 and a pre-15. Both shoot at POA with the 158 gr FBI load. While all of the other posts suggested good ammo too, my first choice would be the FBI load. Its proven.

Good luck with your decision,
roaddog28

Still packing what I have left of my Federal Nycald 38 spec.(+P) 158 SWC-HP's.

THANKS GUYS.

After reading all of your knowledgeable responses, I found a common theme / characteristic in a HD Round....

HIGHER GRAIN and HOLLOW POINTS are essential.

"HIGHER GRAIN and HOLLOW POINTS are essential."

Looks like you got it figured out. Sincerely. brucev.

For home defense it's a 223 45 gr soft point. Extremely nasty @ living room distance, but disintegrates going thru 2 layers of dry wall.

Pete

Sigh; I just can't let this go. This is a good way to get yourself killed. They are grossly under penetrating and "stopping power" is a completely meaningless term; no 2 people react the same to getting shot and any attempt to quantify this is futile. Marshal & Sanow's one shot stop numbers are completely suspect; they run and hide anytime some wants to submit their "data" to an honest review. (they sure found a way to line their pockets though) Energy dump is equally as useless a concept. Look into Dr. Fackler's research and look long and hard at firearmstactical; consider it all and you'll realize how much nonsense is out there in the shooting world. Choose a round that gives reasonable penetration and forget it. Spend 99.9% of your time on training, practice, developing the proper mindset and awareness which are things that matter. Anything worth having is going to penetrate a sheet of drywall. (Take a look at the Box-O-Truth website.)

+100
Glasers are worthless and will not penetrate well enough to work in most cases. Use what the cops use, they carry the best ammo designed to
work in all situations. NO cop I know would even remotely consider Glasers. They use Ranger T, Gold Dot and Hydra Shok etc and are all
so well designed now that they dont overpenetrate.

Example of why Marshall and Sanow are not right:

In their actual shooting stats they take two nearly identical rounds and give them contradicting stats:

Federal 38+P+ 147gr Hydra at 900-950 fps gets a 69% LEO only
Federal 9mm 147gr Hydra at 900-950fps gets a 79%

To further disprove them, the 38+P+ expanded to .66
while the 9mm expanded to only .51. The 38+P+ penetrated
to about 13" while the 9mm went 17". That stat right their
negates their whole fast and light, 12" pen. and large expansion.
The 38+P+ Hydra got labeled a "spotty performer" by these clowns
even though it even has the largest average expansion diameter even in
a SNUB nose over ever other load they tested including dead soft versions of the FBI load- ie Remington!

On my side a 29 3 1/2 inch with federal 180 jhp's. On the dresser, a 22 with 4 inch bbl and loaded with 230 grain hydroshocks.

Now if I can only FIND some .38 ammo

Try Midway. Right now they have Buffalo Bore 38 special +P LSWCHP in 158g. This is the FBI load. Price is $24.99. They also have the 125g hollow point +P from Buffalo Bore. Same price. They also have Winchester 148g lead wadcutters. A little pricey but this is a good target load. Ammunition to go has all kinds of defense rounds. Most of these rounds are very good also.

I agree with the posts that the best ammo won't work if you don't practice and learn how to use you model 15 under stress.

Good luck
roaddog28

Just to stir the pot a little. A lot can be said for 148 gr. wadcutters as a home defense round.. Reasonable stopping power with low muzzle flash,limited penatration in most building materials, low recoil (especially good for people of small stature and or limited shooting experience). But the key to the whole thing is practice. Learn to shoot in low light and then practice, practice, practice.

I wore a revolver for most of my LEO years and on both sides of that career doing private security. My primary home defense gun is a 12 guage with #4 birdshot. But that is just me.

Here's my 2 cents. As in shooting any other animal I want a bullet that will penetrate through muscle and bone, expand once inside and leave an exit wound to bleed it out as quickly as possible. Has worked for me with excellent success in 40 years of hunting.

I keep my 19 loaded with Speer Gold Dot 158 gr. JHP's. I have complete confidence they will meet my criteria. Also use the same round in my 657 210 gr. SGD's, Springer 1911 230 gr. SGD's and H&K P7 with 124 grainers. If I have to shoot through a wall or door to stop a BG in my home during a shoot out I need penetration to do so.

My MAIN round is OO buck and my HD weapon is my 870 riot loaded with 8 rounds of OO buck. Birdshot doesn't cut it as I have seen 7 shot bounce off of a leather jacket at 20 yards! You have to have penetration and OO's will get the job done faster and more accurately with a shotgun than any other handgun load hands down.

JMO

__________________
V/R
Roger / SG

Whatever you decide, do not just load up the cylinder and put the gun away.

Practice with it. At an indoor range if possible. An indoor range gives a better approximation of confined, indoor, "low light" (as opposed to sunlight) conditions than the average outdoor range.

1. Winchester grey box 357 mag 125 gr HP. They were availible and shot straight in my 4" 66. I assume they would be enough but have no first hand experiance. For the 2" 357 I have I use 145 gr HP Winchester grey box because I think the reduced speed may require a heavier bullet.

2. In a 38 special I would go for the added mass of the 158 gr HP. If the gun can take it I would use +P.

__________________
"You should enjoy life with the gun you have, not the gun you wish you had"

I'll stick with the Treasury Load by Federal It has already saved my life quite effectively.

__________________
20 years Mil, 18 yrs Sac P.D.

I used to think that 110 gr. .38s were too light for caliber. I was wrong. I tested Corbon 110 gr. DPX by firing through four layers of denim into Perma-Gel. It penetrated well and expanded where Speer SB .38 failed. That said, I like Speer SB and the FBI load as well. Just don't get caught in the whole heavy bullet mantra. At the lower velocities that shorter barrels give, lighter bullets are more likely to expand. Let the gun decide what it likes. Use what shoots to POA and accurately in fixed sight guns whether that be 110, 135, or 158 gr. bullets. Adjustable sights give you some wiggle room.

I also vehemently disagree with tthe assertion that "energy dump" and muzzle energy are meaningless in handguns. In a .380 who cares? Yet in .44 magnum, and I carry one, I shot a woodchuck and the exit wound on the other side of it's body was a 5" long tear. A low velocity, heavy, non expanding handgun cartridge could never do that. The more handguns act like rifles, the more effective they are. There's a reason that the 125 gr. .357 enjoys the reputation that it has. It ain't because it's big and slow.

What ever you use it should be factory loaded no reloads, it might save you a lot of grief. Jeff

One reason I prefer handloads (mine!) is because I get to practice a lot with my self-defense load for cheap. I'm into consistency, big-time.

I agree with what GB said above, but with an addition. Wadcutters are very impressive when loaded to more-than-target power levels. 148 gr hollowbase wadcutters with 4 gr Win 231 or HP-38 makes for a great SD round. Pleasant to shoot, as well. They don't separate the target matter like RNs or unexpanded hollowpoints, they punch out a nice, full, round hole, whether in paper or organic tissue. They go in deep, too.

I mostly utilize the .38 Special for self defense purposes. I long ago settled on the 158 grain +P SWC factory load or its handloaded equivalent and make it a point to disregard anything else marketed or touted. It's very liberating to not dither over minor details, knowing that a chosen load will yield the bulk of the performance capabilities of the .38 Special cartridge if I do my part in properly placing the shot. I use the .38 Special as a field cartridge quite a bit when out in the wilds of Texas and the 158 grain SWC in either standard or +P guise has always been a lucky bullet for me.

Scotty,

I would concur with most of what has been said, but I am hardly an expert. I was in your shoes about 5 years ago, and decided to go with the recommendation of some LEOs, both active and retired. I respected them for their work and experience, some of which included actual gun battles with criminals. These particular officers and former officers recommended the .357 magnum 125gr. JHPs. Consequently that is what I use for defense, both at home and carrying. As has been mentioned many times on these forums, these loads recoil sharply and make quite a racket, and therefore usually take more practice to control. I've gotten steadily more proficient with them as I've learned to practice properly, and I expect that I will become more proficient as time goes on.

What I desire(and I suppose that everyone else does also) is that my shot does so much damage and/or hurts so badly that anyone attacking me or my own ceases to do so as quickly as possible. I have no wish to argue with others over these issues; I don't have the expertise to hold my own anyway. It's enough for me to be confident that my load will do as I desire as long as it strikes a substantial part of a criminal's anatomy. I am confident that the load mentioned earlier will do so.

I wish you well in your effort to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Andy

Try either the Winchester 158 grain Lead Hollow Point +P or the Speer Gold Dot short barrel.

The best round for self defense is the biggest one you can find that you can hit with. Since placement is critical even with a .44 magnum, you have to be able to handle the round and put it where it needs to be. I prefer the heavier rapid expanding JHPs becaues you get a big wound and penetration. +p is good in a 38, but only if you can hit with it. After all, even a .22 HP between the eyes will be most effective. Use the factory ammo unless you are a very experienced handloader.

FWIW, thats my take on it.

PS: I loaded my daughters M36 with Hornady JHPs. But I'm about to give her one of my M19's w/150 gr JHPs.

I believe I am quoting ERICH from this forum: 'bullet placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin".
I believe that to be correct. I have probably busted more caps for serious than most, and have witrnessed more shots fired in anger than almost all, and I believe that the bullet is of no use if it does not get to where it does the most good (bad).
That is where the 158 LSWC +P or non +P, with or without HP gets its reputation. For a 38 special I carry the Nyclad 158gr SWC +P, no HP. It shoots to POA in most all my fixed sight guns, and has excellent penetration, without being on the dangerous side for HD.
I have used it on wild pig, and it drops them like they were poleaxed, and usually does not exit on an average size hog, which is about human weight, but a little tougher hide. I expect a HP would do as well if not better. My hog gun is an M64 HB.
Remember we are talking about a M15 here.
Good luck, use decent ammo and train, train, train.

Don't drive yourself nuts. Just practice, practice, practice. Bullet placement, no matter the caliber, is more important than projectile speed or construction. If you are comfortable with it, the Winchester 158 gr. LSWCHP is a very good round. However, for low recoil, less muzzle blast, fast follow up shots, great stopping power, and a good "bleed out", you just can't beat the old standard 148 gr. lead full wadcutter. It will definately do the job.