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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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  #1  
Old 11-22-2009, 04:23 PM
Willyboy Willyboy is offline
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Default Colt trooper = what S&W ?

I have seen a few Colt Troopers locally that look pretty nice. What is the S&W equivalent? K-frame,L, or n-frame? I am also looking at S&W 27 and 28's and like the looks of the S&W a little better. I already have a 14 and 15, 1960's vintage. Thanks...
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Old 11-22-2009, 04:40 PM
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L-Frame today.

In the heydey of the Trooper, its competition would have been something like the Highway Patrolman/N-Frame.

The old Troopers, with the V-Mainspring, formed the basis of the Python.
And of course the L-Frame was produced to take away Python/Trooper business. Holsters, speedloaders will generally work interchangeably.
The L-Frame was designed to allow police to use their leather/speedloader equipment if they had had Pythons/Troopers.
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:29 PM
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Colt's direct competitor was the S&W Model 15.
Both were adjustable sighted, .38 Special, "service" type revolvers of a similar size and competed for the same police market.

After 1961 the Trooper was available in .357, and the Model 19 became the "other brand" Colt competed against.
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Old 11-22-2009, 10:39 PM
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Danski has the correct answer regarding frame size comparison of the guns available in todays market. The model 15 may have been the police market competitor at the time the 38 trooper was in production, but the model 15 is built on the 'K' frame and somewhat smaller than the Colt Trooper. You didn't mention which version of the Trooper, but the S&W 'L' frame is a closer match to either the older 'E' frame Trooper or the later 'J' frame Trooper MKIII.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:10 AM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyboy View Post
I have seen a few Colt Troopers locally that look pretty nice. What is the S&W equivalent? K-frame,L, or n-frame? I am also looking at S&W 27 and 28's and like the looks of the S&W a little better. I already have a 14 and 15, 1960's vintage. Thanks...
It seems to me that the Trooper is closest to the L frame, and the closest L frame is probably the 620 or the 686 Mountain Gun in terms of weight.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:36 AM
feralmerril feralmerril is offline
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I have several troopers and they always felt pretty close to a K frame to me. Here is one along side a M&P.

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Old 11-24-2009, 11:16 AM
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I have shot a few Colt Troopers and I can say with certainty, that no Colt Trooper equals any S&W revolver I've ever shot.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:36 PM
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have shot a few Colt Troopers and I can say with certainty, that no S&W equals any Colt revolver I've ever shot.
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:58 PM
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I've fired a Trooper and it seemed pretty hefty to me. But, the photo submitted by Feralmerril causes me to wonder if the Trooper was actually slightly smaller than the K-frame. In any event, I wasn't impressed by the one that I fired. The trigger had this weird stacking sensation which at least made it feel to me as if I had to keep increasing pressure on it throughout its cycle in order to get the gun to fire. Smith triggers are much smoother.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:58 PM
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Default Colt Trooper vs S&W

Thanks for all your comments. I am looking at a Trooper 357 (not a III) made in 1965, with box and target, probably 98%.The trigger felt really crisp but you never know until you actually shoot a few cylinders worth at a bullseye. But the price is high and for a few more bucks I can probably pick up a later P&R model 27 if I shop around a little.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:53 PM
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Pictures are deceiving sometimes.

The Colt E&I frame was heavier and slightly larger than the S&W, especially in key areas.
What the picture doesn't show is that the Colt cylinder is significantly larger in diameter than the S&W "K" frame.

Smith triggers and Colt triggers have a totally different feel, with the Colt stacking as its pulled.
People who grew up on Colt's like it, people used to S&W may not.
The S&W trigger is not "smoother" then the Colt, smoothness has nothing to do with stacking.
Again, different strokes (trigger) for different folks.
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:29 PM
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Many years ago I reloaded and experimented a lot more than now. I mainly carried a old .357 trooper at work. Off the job I shot my .357 S&Ws a lot too. I noticed sloppy reloaded cases wouldnt go in my colts would usualy go in the smiths. Yet high primers wouldnt function in the smiths but the colt would.
If I shot braced over the bench with pads etc., I still claim my colts to be a little more accurate. I am big with fair size hands. Yet if factory standard grips are used on both makes, the S&Ws always "feel" better.
With most my shooting I shoot SA, only when qualifying would I shoot DA. In that case, shooting SA, it doesnt matter whether, S&W or colt, I doubt if there is a differance.
I like both brands, yet must admit colt is almost defunct in DA revolvers, but with two pythons and a couple troopers I am set for life, as I am with my fourteen or so smiths.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:23 PM
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Well , I have a first year Colt .357 Magnum , same size as a Trooper , and it does not fit into a holster molded for a K-frame. It could probably be wetted and stretched to fit. But then again , it swims in an N-frame holster.

And a K-frame is a loose fit in my Python holster.

BTW , all holsters are Bianchi 5BHLs.
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2009, 12:02 AM
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i carried a trooper mklll @ work for several years...a very nice gun....i still have one...i equate it closer to an L frame smith
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2009, 12:15 AM
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When I came on the job if you were a Smith guy you bought a Model 19. if you were Colt guy and couldn't afford a Python (all entry level cops) you bought the Trooper. I went with the Model 19.
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:33 AM
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I always thought S&W introduced the L frame to compete directly with the Colts.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:01 AM
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Default Model 27 all the way

If you can get a nice P&R model 27 for just few bucks more than a similar Trooper , I say go mod 27 even if it is more that a few . I have one trooper left and I like them fine and I used to listen to Python guys , the few who would shoot theirs ,tell me how superior their weapon is , but I never had one out shoot my old model 27, and the trooper is no Python. IMHO There is no revolver more pleasing to hold , carry and own and shoot than the N frame Smith and there are some good reasons to choose the model 27 among all Ns . Besides that the Colt cylinders turn the wrong way .
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:39 AM
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2009, 09:51 AM
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I'm not versed on the sales competition between S&W's and Colt Trooper guns, but I do know that My Trooper MkIII would not fit (without forcing) into a Bianchi K-Frame holster for a 6" barrel.

Some years ago, I gave My late 70's Colt Trooper MkIII to My son for his first handgun. Although I had wanted a nickeled gun when I bought that MkIII, I didn't have enough funds at the time. I traded My Ruger Security-Six 6" blue, and $130 for that demo-gun, & included was the factory carton, & a new Safariland basket-weave, suede-lined holster.

My blued Trooper with a 6" heavy barrel, would outshoot nearly every handgun that I owned (at that time), sans My Thompson Contender.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:47 AM
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Hi:
I purchased a Blued Colt Trooper w/ 4" barrel in 1958 that was .357mag.
Standard grips, hammer, and trigger. $75.00 new.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:30 AM
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i have a 6" mark III, that i have had for many years, and it is one of the two guns that i will not sell, because of my ability to hit what i want with it, the gun is my go to gun, the one that goes hunting on my hip, while i have some nice smiths that stay put up, the only drawback that i have seen with the gun is sometimes the ejector rod will shot loose and back out of the cylinder a little, when shooting but this old pistol has seen many many rounds go down the pipe, but it still hits where i want it to,
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:59 PM
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siiiiiiiiiiiiii

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Old 11-27-2009, 01:11 PM
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Unless I've missed it, no one has yet mentioned that the .357 version Trooper with the rebounding firing pin has the same lock-work as the Python.

In fact, I looked for a nice .357 Trooper for years because I had an extra 4 inch Python barrel and envisioned cobbling up a less expensive Python, but, by the time I finally found the Trooper I wanted, I was out of the notion!
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:24 PM
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Just a bit of history.

In my earlier posting, I said the Trooper and the Highway Patrolman were closer to each other; by that, I meant both beefy but the HP is an N frame and is larger than the Trooper.

In the 1970s, S&W made up some prototype L-frame 586, complete with heavy underlug on the barrel, with an eye to taking on the Python head to head. But S&W reportedly backed off since in those days the competitors were "gentlemen" and didn't copy each other in styling.
But by 1980, S&W changed its mind and hence, the birth of the 586/686.
Again, as I said earlier, the 586 was designed to fit Python leather and could use Python speedloaders, all a way of making it easy for police to drop the Python-sized revolvers (sometimes called .41-frame size).

Today, the Ruger GP 100 also takes the 586/Python speedloader and will generally be a good fit in either gun's leather.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:14 PM
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I see the word 'Trooper' used alot with and without qualifiers (Trooper, MK III, MK V) but that's neither here nor there for my purposes -- you know what you meant. I read with interest, though, the posts about holster fit because I'm trying to line something up for a MK III 6". Bianchi and Safariland surely made leather for this gun, since it was in production for 14 years, but I'm having a hard time nailing down the model nomenclature. Dfariswheel is helping over on 1911 Forum, but maybe y'all know something.

I prefer the safety strap models, so I'll limit this to vintage Bianchi 10Ls and Safariland 25s.

What else will the holster say besides the model number? COLT? COLT .38/.357? I don't want to experiment with Python holsters on the theory that they're 'close' in frame size, and don't need the underlug leather anyway. It's rumored that the King Cobra is the same frame size, but modern Bianchis (who list for a KC) are out for me because the MIM (Made in Mexico) linings are like particle board.

Has anyone got any 'back in the day' experience with this? Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:08 AM
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Anything made for the python will fit. I am guessing that anything made for the s&w 586 should too. Years ago at work I had the offical police, 586 and ruger speed six all available to me. They were company guns all in 4". We were isued company holsters from several makers. One holster fit all three just fine. I also carried a colt trooper probley the most. I still have 3 or 4 of those holsters yet. I still have several troopers and pythons. I also have a holster or two for K frame smiths. They are a little too tight for my colts.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:50 AM
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I have a Trooper .357 from 1967. The closest S&W in size and function is the Model 19 Combat Magnum. The M27/28 is a size larger. My 686 is in between, and definitely larger than the Colt.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
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I have a Trooper .357 from 1967. The closest S&W in size and function is the Model 19 Combat Magnum. The M27/28 is a size larger. My 686 is in between, and definitely larger than the Colt.
Interesting. I read a post last night from a guy who had to force a Trooper into a K frame holster. Consensus seems to be it is roughly equivalent to the L frame.

SAEmetric: That's what I'm looking for right there. Thanks! I'm on my way to the WTB Forum.

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Old 02-23-2013, 01:35 PM
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And worthy of its own thread, look at this pic of a Colt test target shipped with a Trooper MK III. I'm not saying an M27 can't do this, but I've never seen it. In any case, God bless the craftsmen of old who made guns like this.

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Old 05-15-2013, 05:46 PM
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Default Just Bought a Colt Trooper MKIII Today

Just was in the right place at the right time.
Walked into the gun store and a fellow wanted to trade his 1973 MKIII for a S&W Body Guard $419. ( At This Shop )
The guy behind the counter offered him $325 for a 98% gun.
He decided that he would think about it and maybe come back later. I asked him to look at it. Told him I would pay for his Body Guard if he traded me the Colt. Nice Pistol - Can't wait to shoot it. This is my second Colt and I love the first one !
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:44 PM
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My father has a 6" Python, my brother has a 6" Trooper III, and I am in the process of getting a Model 28. Both of the Colts shoot very nice, and are quite accurate, I prefer the feel of the DA trigger on the Python to the Trooper, but I find most S&W triggers to be just as good, although different. I too would say that the Trooper III is nearly identical in size to an L frame, its certainly not as big as an N. Honestly, I think that both of the Colts are slightly better looking than the Smith, but I find that the Smiths fit my hands slightly better and just feel right.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:12 PM
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[QUOTE=mkk41;1187845]Well , I have a first year Colt .357 Magnum , same size as a Trooper , and it does not fit into a holster molded for a K-frame.

Would your Colt be a Shooting Master from 1936 ? There were 500 made in .357 Mag. I saw one at a LGS that was for sale by one of the employees. I never knew about them until he told me about it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE Mike View Post
I have shot a few Colt Troopers and I can say with certainty, that no Colt Trooper equals any S&W revolver I've ever shot.
Colts are nice but...
Kinda off topic and not to hijack, but having owned some police positives, det. spec. lawman, trooper MKIII's and several snakes (pythons, diamondbacks, anaconda, cobra), etc. I tend to agree but it's likely you favor what you started with.
Currently only own the lawman mk3 (traded into 2" RB) and IMO there's a reason the colt wheelies are extinct (excluding the SAA) while S&W is still very much in the DA revolver business. Not a colt hater but my regret is that I don't still own a herd of colts so could re-sell them at absurd prices they seem to bring today.
I may catch heck here but there's no way I'd post this on a colt forum.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:30 AM
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The first handgun I purchased as a Police Officer was a 4 inch nickel Trooper Mark III in 1978. It was and still is a fine revolver. I still have it today, but if I was going to pick only one 357 for everday use it would be the S&W 686. I have a 2 1/2 inch and a 4 inch version (no dash) The 2 1/2 is the Lew Horton edition. As far as size comparison the Trooper MK III is kinda between the K and L frame.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:36 AM
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I own Colt, Ruger, and S&W revolvers. The Colt Python, Trooper 357, Trooper MK III, Ruger GP100, and S&W 686 Mountain Gun all fit in a Bianchi #5 Black Widow marked Ruger/S&W 357.

My Colts.



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Python (1978)
Trooper 357 (1965)
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:44 PM
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I think the Trooper and Python were built on what was referred to often as the "41" frame for the old .41 Colt da which was smaller than the larger .45's and 44's, but larger than the positives and other .38's & .32's of the era.....
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:21 AM
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Lovem all !! N Frames,Colt Snakes .... got a Trooper feels alot like my 27-2. Not like the Python.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:55 AM
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[QUOTE=wetdog;137225663]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Well , I have a first year Colt .357 Magnum , same size as a Trooper , and it does not fit into a holster molded for a K-frame.

Would your Colt be a Shooting Master from 1936 ? There were 500 made in .357 Mag. I saw one at a LGS that was for sale by one of the employees. I never knew about them until he told me about it.

Nope , it's a 1954 'Colt .357'. That was the model.


Last edited by mkk41; 05-26-2013 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:14 AM
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I own a Colt Trooper in .38 Spl (mfd. 1960) with a 4" barrel. Very nice action and a very accurate revolver. I also own a 4 screw K-38 and a pre-WWII Colt Officers Model Targer. Both a very nice target revolvers. I'd be hard pressed to choose between them so therefore I won't.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:14 PM
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Nope , it's a 1954 'Colt .357'. That was the model.

[/QUOTE]

That's a beauty. I didn't know about that model either.
Thanks for posting.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:10 PM
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:33 PM
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I had a Colt model 357 in the 80's and 90's. Sold it in 1998. It was a good gun, but I still much prefer a Smith (27/28).
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeruns View Post
I think the Trooper and Python were built on what was referred to often as the "41" frame for the old .41 Colt da which was smaller than the larger .45's and 44's, but larger than the positives and other .38's & .32's of the era.....
You are correct sir. The OP was built on this frame as well. I've got a Trooper MkIII and a Lawman. Excellent weapons and built to take as many magnums as you care to fire, in my opinion. I believe S&W comparison is the L frame series.
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