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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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  #1  
Old 04-04-2010, 11:32 AM
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Default My bullseye target revolvers

I thought you'd be interested in what I'll be shooting this bullseye season. First match is on April 11 in Annapolis, MD and I'll be shooting all four: The 17/14/625 in the 2700 and the 27 in the Distinguished Revolver Match. This is going to be a very good season.
Keith





2010 Bullseye Scores

April 11 Harwood, MD 1st Place Expert

22 38 45
Slow 183-5X 169-1X 170-1X
NMC 286-7X 278-4X 280-11X
Timed 188-7X 180-5X 193-4X
Rapid 190-6X 185-4X 182-4X
Total 847-25X 812-14X 825-20X 2484-59X

April 27 Annapolis, MD 2nd Place Expert

22 38 45
Slow 183-4X 160-1X 178-1X
NMC 275-7X 280-5X 271-6X
Timed 193-7X 193-7X 193-4X
Rapid 187-4X 190-3X 183-2X
Totals 838-22X 823-16X 825-13X 2486-51X

Note: My slow fire with the 38 was my major problem. Ammo was the culprit. Solved it by the end of the match. Slow fire in the DR match was a 95.

May 8 Harwood, MD 2nd Place Expert (Beaten by another wheelgunner and forum member. Oh, the horror)

22 38 45
Slow 174-5X 175-2X 178-2X
NMC 279-7X 281-7X 276-4X
Timed 195-5X 193-6X 189-9X
Rapid 193-7X 192-5X 188-2X
Totals 841-24X 841-20X 831-17X 2513-61X

Note: Getting more consistent with each gun and ammo problems seem to be worked out. My next area of focus is on improving my Slow fire.

May 15 Annapolis, MD 3rd Place Expert

22 38 45
Slow 180-2X 187-3X 178-1X
NMC 284-11X 272-2X 272-6X
Timed 194-4X 193-7X 191-1X
Rapid 191-6X 196-7X 183-5X
Totals 849-23X 848-19X 824-13X 2521-55X

Note: As you can see my 22 and 38 scores continue to improve, especially in slow fire. But I was not up to my potential in the 38 NMC or 45 Rapid. There was only a 5 point spread between 1st and 3rd. Shooting my averages would have easily closed that gap. Oh, well. Next time. By the way, Master Class scores start at 2565. Hmmmmm!
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:14 PM
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Nice looking guns and some good choices for bullseye shooting. I really like those grips. Who made them? Don
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:33 PM
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Nice looking guns and some good choices for bullseye shooting. I really like those grips. Who made them? Don
I am curious about the grips as well.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:46 PM
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I'm betting they are Nil grips?
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:38 PM
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They are Nill Hemphill PPC grips. The N frames wear standard size and the two K frames wear XL. I've found the reach to the trigger is the most critical dimension since I use DA on all sustained fire. The XLs are a little longer in the grip but not enough to cause problems and the trigger reach feels very similar. The only unfortunate thing is that Nill does not make the closed top type grip (as on the 625) for an N frame square butt, only the round butt.
Keith
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:17 PM
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Great grips.

Wish you well on timed and rapid fire! I have never been able to master one handed double action. I can reasonably stay in the black with a 17 but, after that, I come unglued with the 14. I haven't even tried with a .45!
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:35 PM
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CGM,
That's what makes it so darn fun. I've shot IPSC with a revolver for many years, but it still took me a few years to make the transition to bullseye. I find the actions all have to be set up the same (no small task) for an early comeup. Once that is done it's a matter of practice.
Keith
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:20 PM
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I also admire your choices. Have to ask about that front sight, or is it my eyes and this dark screen?
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:06 PM
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All the front sights are standard black patridge blades. Most have been milled and reblued to a specific height so I can use the tallest rear slide I can get away with, normally a .160". The 625 was a challenge because the original rear blade was so short and the notch so shallow that holding a good sight picture was difficult. Installing a taller front blade allowed me to use a slightly taller rear. I believe it's a .145".
Keith
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:22 PM
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What's the advantage/reason for using the M-27 for DRM over the M-14?
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:41 AM
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At this point I don't know that there is any advantage. I've been using the Md 27 since 2005 and its the gun I got my DR certificate with. The Md 14 is brand new,fresh from the gunsmith. They both shoot less than 2" at 50 yards so technical accuracy won't be the issue. I'll have to see how my scores develop over this season to see if I shoot one consistently better than the other.
Keith
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:11 AM
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We have a discriminated shooter here!
Congrats!
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:40 AM
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Those are some serious-looking sixguns! Love the Nil grips and good luck during the upcoming year!

Jerry
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:50 PM
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I'd like to know if there is any interest in you guys following the season. I could post my scores and you could see how it's progressing. No insult if you're not interested and trouble for me to post them if you are.
Keith
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:58 PM
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I'd love to see how you do ...I'll be starting my first year in PPC this year hopefully.
Those grips are very nice...Hemphill ..named after the 10 National Champ for PPC shooting Phillp Hemphill from Mississippi Highway Patrol ...he is a great man and a unreal shooter.
I have a set of those grips on the way and cant't wait to get them on....your Smiths look great and GOOD LUCK,hope you do well.

Jason
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:10 PM
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Well, OK then. The first set of scores will be posted after the first match on 11 April.
Keith
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:45 PM
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Nice set of guns Keith - tip of the hat to anyone who uses revolver for bullseye. I've tried all types of competition, and nothing is as tough as good old bullseye. With the revolver, it's even tougher!! That slow-fire target always kills me. Mighty small 10 ring. Enjoy the season.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:00 AM
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Those are some beautiful guns. So you have a Model 14 also that you used to compete with? I just bought a 14-4 and am thinking about doing IHMSA Field Pistol with it.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:10 AM
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Default Bullseye Scores Posted

April 11th bullseye scores posted immediately following pictures in first post.
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Old 04-13-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprher View Post
April 11th bullseye scores posted immediately following pictures in first post.
Wow....If you move down to Fl, let me know! I'll be sure to NOT invite you to our matches. You will definitely kick our butts!!!

Very nice....
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:42 PM
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Kind words CGM. My goal for this season is to reliably top 2500. We'll see how the quest goes.
Keith
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:28 PM
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Congrats! I don't know what the scores mean, but I know what 1st place is lol.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:37 PM
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38,
Here is a real quick tutorial on bullseye. 90 shots in a match for a maximum score of 2700. Two 10 shot targets slow fire for a maximum score of 200. A 30 shot National Match Course of 10 shots slow, 10 shots timed and 10 shots rapid for a maximum score of 300. Two 10 shot timed targets at 25 for a maximum score of 200 and two 10 shot targets at 25 for a maximum score of 200. All slow fire is at 50 yards, all timed and rapid are shot at 25 yards. Each Timed is 2 5-shot strings of 20 seconds each and each Rapid is 2 5-shot strings at 10 seconds each. If you reliably score above 2600 you're a titan and if you reliably score above 2650 you're a God among men. Sadly, I'm a mere mortal. X's are for breaking ties and count 10 points apiece.
Keith
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:43 PM
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So in the Rapid Fire you have 10 seconds for 5 shots? Sounds like a very interesting challenge for sure. Much different than the IHMSA I'm going to start doing next month. I do IDPA with the 10, IHMSA with the 14, now I'm going to have to find something to get into Bullseye with
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprher View Post
Kind words CGM. My goal for this season is to reliably top 2500. We'll see how the quest goes.
Keith
Seriously, if you are ever in this neck of the woods be sure to let me know. You would be more than welcome at our club (Hollywood Rifle & Pistol Club). It's a private facility intended to foster NRA competition in pistol and smallbore rifle. Our problem is getting people to participate in a real 2700. We get so few that we are only doing them in the spring months in preparation for those that go to Camp Perry.

Was at the range today and with your scores in mind and, just for kicks, took my 17 and 14 and tried the rapid fire. I can see where with much practice double action could be mastered. I very much need a trigger job on my 14! No way it will do!

Anyway....keep up the good shooting
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:32 AM
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I feel your pain about getting members to participate in a 2700. I ran our pistol division for a couple years, and when we shot a 30 round match we would get maybe 12-15 to enter. Then I tried a 90 round match, and only three would show up, "takes too long" was the bitch. I never could get a entire 2700 match up and going. I still run a 30 round (indoor RF) match in the winter, and get around 20 to shoot, but that's about the only thing going then.

Good luck keeping yours going.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:50 AM
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Keith, I'd be shooting wheelguns right along with you if I weren't in CA for work right now!

Here's my set:

S&W 617-4 (.22)
S&W 686-5 (CF)
S&W 625-6 (.45)
S&W 14-6 (DR)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cprher
2010 Bullseye Scores

April 11 Harwood, MD 1st Place Expert

22 38 45
Slow 183-5X 169-1X 170-1
NMC 286-7X 278-4X 280-11X
Timed 188-7X 180-5X 193-4X
Rapid 190-6X 185-4X 182-4X
Total 847-25X 812-14X 825-20X 2484-59X
Good scores; neither my slow-fire or rapid-fire scores are nearly as impressive with open sights.

-Kent
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
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Keith, I'd be shooting wheelguns right along with you if I weren't in CA for work right now!

Here's my set:

S&W 617-4 (.22)
S&W 686-5 (CF)
S&W 625-6 (.45)
S&W 14-6 (DR)



Good scores; neither my slow-fire or rapid-fire scores are nearly as impressive with open sights.

-Kent
So is the blued one the 14? Whichever one that it is, that blued gun is beautiful. I really like those grips, what kind are they if you don't mind me asking? And DR, does that stand for Distinguished Revolver?
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:55 PM
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Wow I'm so jealous. I'm an old and I say an old Bullseye shooter from the early mid 70's. I quit shooting competively when the government dropped our base teams. Old AF guy.

I have thought of getting into PPC matches here local, but I'm so herky, jerky now I think I would be embarresed to death. I'll keep on knocking down a few indoors from time to time.

Gosh I really admire a those pistols.

When I did have a gun box I still shot a K-38 6 inch for one of my 50 yd slow fire legs.

Love to see those scores. Numbers don't lie.

God 50 yds is a long way when I first started to to shoot bullseye I thought I would NEVER get any kind of group. It took a lot of ammo to get any kind of score, and god knows how many hours of dry fire.

Don't mean to ramble sorry.

Dan
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Old 04-15-2010, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
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So is the blued one the 14? Whichever one that it is, that blued gun is beautiful. I really like those grips, what kind are they if you don't mind me asking? And DR, does that stand for Distinguished Revolver?
Yup, that's the Model 14. Starting with the -5, continuing with the -6, and ending with the -7, the Model 14 shipped with a full underlug on the barrel, much like the 586. The -6 saw the frame factory drilled & tapped for a scope, a very slight change in the front sight, the grip frame changed to round-butt-only, and the cylinder/extractor changed to the new non-pinned type. The -7 saw the MIM hammer/trigger.

DR = Distinguished Revolver.

The grips on all the guns are Ahrends "Tactical" round-to-square conversion grips with finger-grooves. On that Model 14, the wood is an orange-stained Maple that I've added a polyurethane finish.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:30 AM
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Dan,
Thanks for the comments, but don't let age put you off. I'm 57 and started shooting pistol competitively in 1973 after enlisting in the Army. I got into it very heavy while a cadet at West Point from 1974-1978 but soon thereafter stopped shooting bullseye and shot revolver in IPSC for many years. I didn't start up with bullseye until 2005. While I got my first leg points in 1974 I didn't go Distinguished until 2006, the same year I went Distinguished Revolver. I remember when I got back into it in 2005 I couldn't even stand properly for more than a few seconds. I kept losing my balance. All very embarrassing. Bottom line: its worth the effort to just dive in and shoot. I have no doubt that your old form will begin to show itself in no time at all. Just remember - age and experience will overcome youth and strength every time. Just don't turn your back on Valkyriekl. He'll kick your butt when your not looking.
Keith
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:09 PM
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valkyriekl, thank you for the info. Looks like I just missed the full underlug, but oh well, I still like mine
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:54 AM
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cprher: I make it easy with the red-dots; real Bullseye shooters shoot with open sights =)

.38 Sharpshooter: I think the 14-4 is the best exposed-ejector K-38 Masterpiece out there, mainly because the gas ring is on the cylinder for that one, and so it's easier to clean. I have a 19-3 which has the gas ring on the yoke, and after about 30 shots, fouling starts to really build up in the yoke barrel and makes the cylinder not rotate freely anymore.

The 14-5/6/7's heavier barrel really does make a difference--between my 19-3 and my 14-5 and -6, I can hold the 19-3 on the target for longer at 50 yards before fatigue sets in. With the 14-5 and -6 with their heavier barrels, I basically have to decide to shoot the moment I bring the gun up, and any decision to abort the shot has to come fairly soon (i.e. due to larger wobbles due to fatigue or wind or whatever). With the 19-3 (and hopefully with the 14-4) I'll have longer to decide, either way.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:35 AM
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This is probably going to make me sound ignorant, but I don't even know what the gas ring is.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:40 PM
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The gas ring is a shroud surrounding the part of the yoke around which the cylinder rotates. It's at the front of the cylinder and prevents gas from the barrel/cylinder gap from getting into and clogging the internals of the cylinder.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:00 PM
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Oh ok, I see what you are talking about. Thank you!
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:03 AM
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April 27 match results posted immediately under pictures in first post.
Keith
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:52 AM
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May 8 match results posted immediately under the pictures in the first post.
Keith
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:09 AM
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Excellent thread, I've really enjoyed it - thanks for posting.
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:23 AM
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Nice equipment and you really know how to use it. Those scores would be very competitive with experts shooting autos and red dots around here. You should be able to make distinguished revolver in the minimum amount of time shooting those kinds of scores. Bullseye pistol shooters have a lot of stick-to-it-tive-ness. Not a lot of folks with that quality these days. Congrats on your first place finishes.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valkyriekl View Post
cprher: I make it easy with the red-dots; real Bullseye shooters shoot with open sights =)
Until their eyes go bad. I bought myself an RRA ball gun as a retirement present, in 2007. I had to use an iris to get a good sharp front sight focus. In less than a year, I was at the iris' smallest aperture and still fuzzy.

The red dots fixed all of that.

Of course, the nearest real organized BE competition is a four hour drive away. I envy you guys with active, local Conventional Pistol venues. Plenty of snap'n'giggle activity around here, but it soon gets depressing since most of those matches are more of a track meet than a shooting event... and the days of me being competitive in that sort of thing are long gone...

Beautiful brace of revolvers, cprher.

.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprher View Post
May 8 Harwood, MD 2nd Place Expert (Beaten by another wheelgunner and forum member. Oh, the horror)

22 38 45
Slow 174-5X 175-2X 178-2X
NMC 279-7X 281-7X 276-4X
Timed 195-5X 193-6X 189-9X
Rapid 193-7X 192-5X 188-2X
Totals 841-24X 841-20X 831-17X 2513-61X

Note: Getting more consistent with each gun and ammo problems seem to be worked out. My next area of focus is on improving my Slow fire.
Hmm...I remember that match, as if it were shot yesterday =)

.22 SF: 185-5X
.22 NMC: 284-8X
.22 TF: 198-8X
.22 RF: 190-4X (you got me here!)
.22 sub-aggregate: 857-25X

CF (.45) Slow: 185-5x
CF NMC: 286-8x (including my first ever 100 using a .45)
CF TF: 194-5x
CF RF: 187-8x (you got me here, too)
CF sub-agg: 852-26x

.45 SF: 178-3x (yeah, I kinda forgot how to shoot my .45 after lunch!)
.45 NMC: 285-10x
.45 TF: 194-8x
.45 RF: 185-4x (you took me here, as well...man, I need to work on my rapid-fire, apparently =)
.45 sub-agg: 842-25x

Total: 2551-76x (1st Expert, new personal record by 1 point)

Good shootin' with ya; I'll see you next time!
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:08 PM
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May 15 match results posted immediately under pictures in first post.
Keith
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