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Old 06-04-2010, 02:59 AM
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Default Model 19-2

I'm looking for input on the 19-2. Any weak areas on this model? From what I have learned here, it appears it's production run went without any major changes from 1961 to 1966. If you own one lets hear about it, if you have pics....put em up (please). I may have an opportunity to get a model 19-2, I have not seen it yet....I'm told it's from 1961 and has possibly never been fired in a like new box. It's a 4" barrel. What do you suppose it may be worth if this is indeed true?

Tech23
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:57 AM
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No issues with the 19-2, aside from the usual warning about avoiding a steady diet of (especially 125 gr) .357 Magnum full-house loads. If as described, I would guess $500-600, the latter figure if complete with the box, paperwork, and tools. A private party might be at the lower end, and a dealer might want more than the higher end.
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:32 AM
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The 19-2 began shipping sometime in late 1962 or early in 1963. The change authorizing the new cylinder stop and eliminating the cylinder stop plunger screw (resulting in the -2 model variation with a 3-screw frame) was not issued until November 28, 1961 and it took S&W several months to use up the old parts. The -2 model variation is a great shooter with no particular faults in design, but as stated above, it should be used with the 158 grain bullet the majority of the time.

The 19-2 below was shipped in June 1964 and is a good example of a Combat Magnum with a four inch barrel and nickel finish.

Bill
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:54 AM
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I wouldn't call that a good example, I'd call that a GREAT example.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:01 AM
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si.......................

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Old 06-04-2010, 09:28 AM
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sw282:
That looks like a nice example of a 6 incher and probably answers tech's question about value since it was open to all buyers for a week. Bill has stated in the past that the 19-2 could be a desirable collectible in the future, if not already.
Ed
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:29 AM
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si.............

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Old 06-04-2010, 12:33 PM
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Thanks for the information guys. So the 19-2 will lead a long happy life if I use .38 special rounds in it....what about .38+p ammo? I just purchased a model 36-0. I will be going to the range to fire it for the first time this weekend sometime. Knowing this is a close range weapon (it's my CCW) I am looking for something to practice at the range with....is the 19-2 with the 4 inch barrel as accurate as I am reading? Oh...the one I will be looking into is Blue...will that have any affect on the value in the previously stated condition? What finishes are more valued in the S&W line, Blue, Nickel or Stainless Steel or is it a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" kind of thing that influences it's value? I'm thinking a stainless version of anything would be the most desireable/valuable because of the strength and corrosion resistant properties os the metal or am I wrong here?

Tech23

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Old 06-04-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
...is the 19-2 with the 4 inch barrel as accurate as I am reading?
Every Model 19 I have shot, including the 2-1/2 ones, have been more accurate than I ever will be

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Originally Posted by Tech23 View Post
What finishes are more valued in the S&W line, Blue, Nickel or Stainless Steel or is it a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" kind of thing that influences it's value?
I definitely prefer the blued ones, especially from the 1960s, but it is all in the eyes of the beholder.

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I'm thinking a stainless version of anything would be the most desireable/valuable because of the strength and corrosion resistant properties os the metal or am I wrong here?
The nickel finish is more corrosion resistant than the blued but the stainless finish (or lack of) would be the easiest to maintain, of course.

The 19-2s are one of my favorite versions of the Model 19.

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Old 06-04-2010, 02:56 PM
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The nickel finish is more corrosion resistant than the blued but the stainless finish (or lack of) would be the easiest to maintain, of course.
But the stainless version wouldn't be a Model 19 nor would it be a finish...it would be a model 66 made of solid stainless steel..
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:18 PM
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Default My 19-2

I really love this revolver. This revolver is fast and accurate when it counts. I found this beater and paid $175 for it this year. I blasted it with glass beads, parkerized it, and replaced the diamond target grips with Pachmayr Professional series grips. I put the Targets away and saved them.

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Old 06-05-2010, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
No issues with the 19-2, aside from the usual warning about avoiding a steady diet of (especially 125 gr) .357 Magnum full-house loads. If as described, I would guess $500-600, the latter figure if complete with the box, paperwork, and tools. A private party might be at the lower end, and a dealer might want more than the higher end.
My instructor told me about this 19-2 becoming available...the same instructor tipped me off to the gun shop where I purchased the model 36 I have posted pictures of here, and in my avatar. I spoke to the owner of the gun today & I'm going to look at the model 19-2 on Sunday. The owner is a local policeman that is selling off the last of his grandfathers gun collection. He assures me it is NIB & never fired. I will see if it has all the papers. Does this mean just the owners manual or is there more I should expect from the original purchaser? What tools should come with the gun? He is priced a little lower than the low end guestimate above. The owner says its blue, is pinned and has a recessed cylinder. I know about the cylinder. Not sure about pinned...does that mean the barrel has a roll pin securing/locating the barrel to the frame?

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But the stainless version wouldn't be a Model 19 nor would it be a finish...it would be a model 66 made of solid stainless steel..
I really have my heart set on a stainless steel wheel gun for a second gun...a model 66 apparently...thanks Pilgrim. Any idea how hard it would be to find a model 66 with a 4 inch barrel that may be NIB or real close to it. I mean is a 66 as hard to find as a 19-2 I know many say they don't make them like they used to, and the old steel frame S&W's are better built guns compared to the newer products with cast pieces. From the education I have recieved here it looks like the model 66 came to be in 1960 and was discontinued in 2005. It looks like cast (MIM) parts were introduced in production in 1997 so I guess 97 and older are the models I should seek. What is the most desirable model 66 and why?

Tech23
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:32 AM
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I'm not in the market for a 4" 19-2, but if I was offered a NIB for less than $500 I might not be able to resist. That being said it wouldn't become my carry piece, because I couldn't bring myself to harm the finish with a holster. I can appreciate your desire for a stainless steel gun. There are certain advantages. As for collecting value, in the long run I would guess that blued guns in great condition become more valuable with time because they become increasingly more scarce due to the difficulty in maintaining their excellent condition. Just a guess however. Check Gunbroker if for no other reason than to see availability and relative pricing between the various models. Without the benefit of looking I would guess you will see more 66's in excellent condition as compared to 19's. Also, the snub versions of both are "hotter" than the 4 inch versions which seem to be slower movers and cost less than their snub brothers. Your money, your choice.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tocohillsguy View Post
I'm not in the market for a 4" 19-2, but if I was offered a NIB for less than $500 I might not be able to resist. That being said it wouldn't become my carry piece, because I couldn't bring myself to harm the finish with a holster. I can appreciate your desire for a stainless steel gun. There are certain advantages. As for collecting value, in the long run I would guess that blued guns in great condition become more valuable with time because they become increasingly more scarce due to the difficulty in maintaining their excellent condition. Just a guess however. Check Gunbroker if for no other reason than to see availability and relative pricing between the various models. Without the benefit of looking I would guess you will see more 66's in excellent condition as compared to 19's. Also, the snub versions of both are "hotter" than the 4 inch versions which seem to be slower movers and cost less than their snub brothers. Your money, your choice.
I will be using my model 36 as my carry piece, and I really hate to see the finish go away from holster wear. I love the gun but feel like I should have searched for a model 60 as a CCW. It's the I can't resist factor combined with the I don't want to harm the finish on a NIB 19-2 that will be used more frequently at the range or in the desert. I suppose as long as it's not holstered and not mistreated the blue will hold up OK. Tomorrow I will find out if I can resist temptation.
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:20 PM
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This is the same as the avatar.This was one of the first three to come to my hometown when the 2 1/2 inchers came out. This one was blue,the other two nickel.I've had this one about 40 years and it was a duty gun for some time when I worked for the detectives. Now has NP3 finish throughout and a gold bead sight. It's slicker than ever.I currently only use the 135gr+P Gold Dot as a carry load,when I carry it. With the new ammo,I'm not gaining much anymore in the short barrel except recoil and blast with magnums.
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Honea View Post
This is the same as the avatar.This was one of the first three to come to my hometown when the 2 1/2 inchers came out. This one was blue,the other two nickel.I've had this one about 40 years and it was a duty gun for some time when I worked for the detectives. Now has NP3 finish throughout and a gold bead sight. It's slicker than ever.I currently only use the 135gr+P Gold Dot as a carry load,when I carry it. With the new ammo,I'm not gaining much anymore in the short barrel except recoil and blast with magnums.
That's nice looking. Do you have any more pictures of it?

Can you tell me more about this NP3 finish...any special care, how durable is it, who did it, and what is the cost?

Tech23
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:55 PM
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Tech,there are some other photos of it.I'll try to get them up later.
The NP3 is done by Robar in Phoenix. They are mostly known for the Glock grip reductions,but build some nice rifles and a few handguns too.
The NP3 is a combination teflon and electroless nickel finish. There is no maintenance.None. It is kind of a silvery gray finish and extremely slick. I didn't think the action on this revo could have gotten any smooter but the NP3 inside made it almost feel as though it wouldn't bust a cap.
It can almost be cleaned with a simple wipe down with a cloth.It just doesn't hold grit.
I clean it normally.Residue on the cylinder face also cleans off easily,just requires a slight amount more effort.
My wife's Glock 26 has this finish on the slide,barrel,and all internal parts(except springs,of course.)
It's expensive. I think I paid a little over $200 when I had it done about 7 years ago,but to me it was worth it.They do run specials from time to time,tho.
No.it's not original,and collector value is gone because of the finish but it will last several lifetimes with decent care.It has a lifetime guarantee against flaking or rust and Robar stands behind that. They also have a similar and very nice proprietary black finish called roguard. It is available in matte or satin. You can see some of their work on their website.

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Old 06-07-2010, 08:21 PM
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Stu this finish will not wear...even from holster wear? I looked at the site specifically which services did you have Robar perform. It sounds to me like you had the frame finished and internal parts coated....which one of these from their price list did you use?

NP3 Plus on Frame and internal parts
$230.00
Roguard Frame & NP3 Plus on internal parts
$205.00

Tech23
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:11 PM
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The combo Roguard and NP3 finish on steel autos is referred to by Robar as the Norton Special. The revolver is all NP3 including all internal parts,with exception of the rear sight which remains black. The $230 price sounds about right.
Surprised it hasn't increased since then.

As far as wear is concerned,lots of carry and draws from a holster may make some contact points a little shinier over time,but nothing that would result in real finish wear in the accepted definition of the term. This finish is tough! It is not a shiny finish,and not exactly a matte finish,it's somewhere in between. I'm sure that continuous use of kydex might leave some kind of marks on the finish but it wouldn't wear through or take the finish off. I'm still old fahioned enough that I still prefer good boned leather,even though I have some polymer pistols. I still shoot this weapon a lot,even tho I only carry it occasionally. It has saved my bacon and there's a sentimental attachment for it,and it's still an excellant defense gun,IMO.

Of course, the inside of the barrel is not touched by the refinishing.

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Old 06-07-2010, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Honea View Post
The combo Roguard and NP3 finish on steel autos is referred to by Robar as the Norton Special. The revolver is all NP3 including all internal parts,with exception of the rear sight which remains black. The $230 price sounds about right.
Surprised it hasn't increased since then.

As far as wear is concerned,lots of carry and draws from a holster may make some contact points a little shinier over time,but nothing that would result in real finish wear in the accepted definition of the term. This finish is tough! It is not a shiny finish,and not exactly a matte finish,it's somewhere in between. I'm sure that continuous use of kydex might leave some kind of marks on the finish but it wouldn't wear through or take the finish off. I'm still old fahioned enough that I still prefer good boned leather,even though I have some polymer pistols. I still shoot this weapon a lot,even tho I only carry it occasionally. It has saved my bacon and there's a sentimental attachment for it,and it's still an excellant defense gun,IMO.

Of course, the inside of the barrel is not touched by the refinishing.
I think the prices may have gone up...I was looking at their latest finish NP3 Plus. If you can get a gun refinished and get improved feel too...that's a good thing. I would love to see more pics of that refinished 19. On this PDF link which one of these did you purchase? Ton's of options and services here to choose from. What about the chambers...are they coated? It may just be the one pic you posted but it has a high quality powder coated look. You say the exterior surface's are slick like teflon? Did they have to strip the blueing first....surface prep charge?

http://www.robarguns.com/Robar%20Pri...ril%202010.pdf

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Old 06-07-2010, 10:47 PM
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My instructor told me about this 19-2 becoming available...the same instructor tipped me off to the gun shop where I purchased the model 36 I have posted pictures of here, and in my avatar. I spoke to the owner of the gun today & I'm going to look at the model 19-2 on Sunday. The owner is a local policeman that is selling off the last of his grandfathers gun collection. He assures me it is NIB & never fired. I will see if it has all the papers. Does this mean just the owners manual or is there more I should expect from the original purchaser? What tools should come with the gun? He is priced a little lower than the low end guestimate above. The owner says its blue, is pinned and has a recessed cylinder. I know about the cylinder. Not sure about pinned...does that mean the barrel has a roll pin securing/locating the barrel to the frame?



I really have my heart set on a stainless steel wheel gun for a second gun...a model 66 apparently...thanks Pilgrim. Any idea how hard it would be to find a model 66 with a 4 inch barrel that may be NIB or real close to it. I mean is a 66 as hard to find as a 19-2 I know many say they don't make them like they used to, and the old steel frame S&W's are better built guns compared to the newer products with cast pieces. From the education I have received here it looks like the model 66 came to be in 1960 and was discontinued in 2005. It looks like cast (MIM) parts were introduced in production in 1997 so I guess 97 and older are the models I should seek. What is the most desirable model 66 and why?

Tech23
It should have the instruction sheet, a warranty card, and a little plastic bag with a cleaning rod, a brass brush, a cotton swab, and a screwdriver (or "sight adjustment tool"). I don't think there was anything else; later guns would have a brochure for ammo, or holsters. You are correct about the pinned reference, this feature stopped in about 1982.

The model 66 started production in 1970. Which one is best is a whole separate topic. Many prefer the older, pinned versions, but functionally there is little difference between them and a newer one. Many 66s (and 19s, for that matter) were LE guns and are worn cosmetically and sometimes mechanically also. A nice 4" 66 would be in the $450-500 range and perhaps a little easier to find than a NIB 19-2; less than $500 for the latter gun is a pretty good price.
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:24 PM
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It should have the instruction sheet, a warranty card, and a little plastic bag with a cleaning rod, a brass brush, a cotton swab, and a screwdriver (or "sight adjustment tool"). I don't think there was anything else; later guns would have a brochure for ammo, or holsters. You are correct about the pinned reference, this feature stopped in about 1982.

The model 66 started production in 1970. Which one is best is a whole separate topic. Many prefer the older, pinned versions, but functionally there is little difference between them and a newer one. Many 66s (and 19s, for that matter) were LE guns and are worn cosmetically and sometimes mechanically also. A nice 4" 66 would be in the $450-500 range and perhaps a little easier to find than a NIB 19-2; less than $500 for the latter gun is a pretty good price.
I picked up the model 19-2 yesterday. It was as claimed NIB and never fired, produced in 1965, and delivered from the factory with target trigger, target hammer, red ramp and white outline rear sight.


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Old 06-08-2010, 07:33 AM
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Tech23....Your 19-2 is a great looking gun, but assuming 1965 date is correct, the stocks should have the diamond around the escutcheon and escutcheon nut. It appears as though someone replaced the older stocks for a pair that date to the 1970s.

Bill
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Old 06-08-2010, 07:43 AM
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Extremely nice 19. Looks like the one I started my policing with, with the exception of the target hammer and trigger.
I wouldn't touch that finish,at least for years to come.
My finish was well worn on the 2 1/2 incher when I had it redone.

As to the coating question,I just sent the gun to Robar with instructions as to what I wanted done. The chambers are coated.The only places not covered with the NP3 is the rear sight and the bore.

I'm not aware of any additional surface prep charge. I believe the NP3 was applied over the original finish but I'm not 100% on that.

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Old 06-08-2010, 01:20 PM
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Extremely nice 19. Looks like the one I started my policing with, with the exception of the target hammer and trigger.
I wouldn't touch that finish,at least for years to come.
My finish was well worn on the 2 1/2 incher when I had it redone.

As to the coating question,I just sent the gun to Robar with instructions as to what I wanted done. The chambers are coated.The only places not covered with the NP3 is the rear sight and the bore.

I'm not aware of any additional surface prep charge. I believe the NP3 was applied over the original finish but I'm not 100% on that.
I'm not interested in the NP3 finish for the model 19, it's flawless. I'm interested in the NP3 coating for my model 36, which will see holster wear. The M36 is in excellent mechanical condition and for the most part so is the blueing. It has no holster wear, but the blueing on the backstrap is worn. I wanted a stainless gun and was thinking the difference in price between selling my M36 and finding a model 60 and having the NP3 coating applied to my M36 may be very close to the same out of pocket. From what you and Robar claim the interior coating will enhance the guns feel as well.....getting a M60 will only cure the holster wear problem with no other benefits. I'm just looking into all my options at this time, I'm still very new to all this. I would love to go to Robar for a tour though. I don't understand why gun manufacturers don't have robar coatings as an optional finish from the factory.

Can someone explain the rationale behind the (wide) target trigger and target hammer on the M19? Were they designed for competetive target shooting?

Tech23
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