66-1. You've got to be kidding me.

[GF]

No really. I've seen these at sell at $800 on auction sites.

Since when did 2 &1/2 inch Mod 66's sell for more than 3 &1/2 inch Mod 27's?

Here's one bought at what I thought was the top of the market last spring at 600.



When you trend gun prices on completed auctions, sales like this throw off your scale. Or does it? Maybe just a coupla' determined bidders?

I know the NIB guns sell best (sorry to the "shoot'em all!" crowd) but now are newer revolvers exciting collectors?
Check out quality, pre-lock, high condition revolvers from the '70's and '80's. They are bucking the trend of a downturn in gun prices.

GF

[18DAI]

Whens the last time you saw a 3.5" 27 for $800? Last one I saw was right at $1000. I considered it less than 90% too.

The price of the good stuff will keep going up as more folks experience the current production s.......stuff. Regards 18DAI

[TNDave]

It is hard to believe what some guns that were not rare and are not that old are bringing. Only certain ones seem to be really going crazy though. The 2.5" and 3" Model 66's seem to bring disproportionately more than other models.

[Cirrus]

Consider the one you have as a deal!

I've been keeping an eye on the 66s as well.

[mark454]

I don't think anyone is kidding with $800. You did real good at $600. While I think that 66's are gaining in value, 2.5 and 3 inch variants are gaining at a disproportionate rate. Keep in mind, a 66 with a 2.5 inch barrel can be up to 36 years old.
Mark

[Bloodhound]

Model 10s going for $400...19s going for $650...36s going $400+...13s when you can find em $400+...

Gunsmith friend told me "...they will never build them this good again...and even if they did, they would cost even more...the new ones cost more than these, and they are not even close to the same quality..."

I buy em when I can find em that I can afford...and for the most part I'm keeping em...better than $$ money in the bank or in the stock market...

[GF]

"Whens the last time you saw a 3.5" 27 for $800? Last one I saw was right at $1000. I considered it less than 90% too." 18DAI
That is true for retail sales. They don't trade quite as strong between dealers.

That brings up a good point on condition. The difference between two guys agreeing on price first requires them settling on condition.

What I've noticed is that post 1968 Smiths, the "no diamond stocks" guns, have risen in price if they are a new boxed and doc revolvers.
I don't think these have ever been considered "collector" guns.

I think someone commented in a thread that firing a NIB example from this time period would only devalue it by a few dollars.
I wonder how long that will remain true.

GF

[TDC]

I've been collecting NIB P&R S&W's for over 35 years...

What I've been seeing recently is a very strong move into collectible quality handguns by the investment community.

People are looking for a viable alternative to the gold, silver and platinum investments. We all know their prices are going through the roof at levels unimagined just a year or two ago. It's generally considered too late to invest in those heated commodities as well as many other traditional options.

It's amazing to me that people who had absolutely no knowledge or interest in handguns just a year or so ago have become very sophisticated lately in what earlier models have apparent investment potential.

If the gun has a strong potential as a future collectible as well as a probable hedge against the horrendous inflation that appears to be looming, many investors are looking to particular handguns as an unpublicized opportunity. That is what I believe is happening with all the P&R and earlier models, especially those that are NIB.. I think we are seeing evidence of this new competition by the rising selling prices on internet sites.

If you think prices are high on S&W handguns now, just wait until the bills come due for the inflationary health-care, stimulus debacle and failing Social Security programs. IMHO, seeing a price tag of $2000 for a NIB no-dash or dash one 2 1/2" 66 may be just around the corner...

If you're in the market for particular S&W handguns I wouldn't recommend waiting too long.. especially for those no longer produced models we all have wanted to own...

JMHO....

[gilroy]

Interesting to watch. My opinion is the current levels may hold or even rise, but I have noticed over the last 10 to 15 years, some models spike way up based on threads like this one only to fall back considerably a few months later, once the reality of the supply/demand comes to market. This is not a buying time on these prices IMHO, but I am holding my nice ones just in case.

[jughed440]

after reading the post about the NIB 3" 66-2 going for better than $2k, nothing would surprise me any more.

SMITH&WESSON MODEL 66-2 !3 INCH! LNIB !RARE! : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

either 2 bidders really wanted the same gun, or the dirty shill bidding trick was played on someone

[cmannie]

Looks like the deal went through.
As far as "shill bidding" goes..
No one that cries,"Shill bidding!" seems to be able to provide any solid proof that it ever ACTAULLY happens.
If it were to be proven,GB would toss them off the site...
It's like an urban myth.
And,I'm sure that if the same people who bring up shill bidding each time a gun sells really high,would be very upset if THEY sold a gun for a high price,then were accused of this.
The seller is a known seller on GB...And has great feedback.
I don't believe He is guilty of anything other than getting a high price,for a nice gun.
Shame on Him...?
We should be happy that Our nice Smith & Wessons are bringing these great prices!!

[stantheman86]

I have seen the prices on older S&W's

Makes me glad I also like older Ruger Service and Speed Sixes......

I will never pay for anything NIB, I just don't need it and I'm a shooter, not a collector. Holster buffed Model 10's with less than 500 rounds through them are fine with me......call me a "bottom feeder" but I refuse to give in to false inflation prices for guns that were common 3 years ago.

[GF]

"...that were common 3 years ago. " stantheman86

And that's what I'm asking, are these "false inflation prices" or is time catching up to "new" collectable revolvers.

There will always be guns with honest wear for the vast majority of shooters, and most forum members, to buy and shoot.

TDC has hit the nail on the head, "It's amazing to me that people who had absolutely no knowledge or interest in handguns just a year or so ago have become very sophisticated lately in what earlier models have apparent investment potential."

I believe as the economy tanks, more people will look at those "common" HIGH CONDITION revolvers as an investment.

Two distinct types of gun owner.

GF

[imakmst]

GF,

I love that holster. Got any info on it?

[tocohillsguy]

I posted this on another tread, but when you consider that a new 686 L frame snub, with the stupid internal lock, can be purchased for around $700-750 (and has a MSRP of $964), why is it surprising that a discontinued LNIB 66 has a comparable price?

[tocohillsguy]

Originally Posted by imakmst

GF,

I love that holster. Got any info on it?

We'll see what the OP says, but it looks like a Safety Speed holster out of Montebello, California. They went out of business and some of their holsters were posted for sale on Ebay. I have one that looks just like the OP's, except it's a paddle/tab model (and left handed).

[GF]

It's a S&W brand basketweave holster. They've been discontinued for a while but are a pretty common find on Gunbroker, and not very expensive.




GF

[tocohillsguy]

I stand corrected. Here's the Safety Speed holster...

[Cirrus]

I was watching this 66-1 on GB and someone used the "Buy Now" option for $925! I'm stunned...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=196251452

[stantheman86]

My theory is that minty, hardly fired "box and docs" guns like that will rise in value steadily. But the fact remains that was still a "used" gun going for $925. The lack of a comparable S&W product is driving prices up, because those are the "good old" ones. But S&W is not the only game in town for a good US made wheelgun..........

Again, not to start a "flame war" but for the past few years I have become more and more of a fan of Ruger wheelguns. No lock on either old or new ones, they are more durable, and they don't spawn the overnight "collectors and investors" like S&W's have. Rugers have much less collector interest because they don't have the "mystique" of S&W, Rugers are solid working man's duty guns........ I love S&W's because I love good, solid American revolvers but the prices are getting too insane for this working man, if the deep pocket boys want to play with the high dollar stuff to put away for a rainy day, they can have at it.......but I can still buy a 1970's era Ruger Service Six for $300 in nice condition, where it's S&W "equivalent" a Model 13 or 65 will cost double if not more, for a gun that I would be more inclined to bury in the safe than shoot. What people call a "bargain" of $400 for a beat up Model 19, has bought me LNIB Rugers from the 70's and 80's...... I'll let the "investors" battle over the NIB Registered Magnums and Combat Masterpieces, I'll keep sucking up holster worn PD trade in GP100's and Sixes that I'll still be shooting in 2050. I have a like new 586, 66 and 29 in my safe, great for looking at and I doubt I'll shoot them much if any ever again, and I will never sell them. I just like to have them. I can pull out one of my GP100's and run 500 rounds through it without a care in the world.

I will be one of the few advocates for the IL and MIM S&W's, they are just fine as shooters and range guns, and I will buy them used all day if I keep finding hardly fired 10-14's and 64-7's for $300. They may not have the "cool" of the old Smiths, but for shooters, they perform as well as any other.

Older S&W's are starting to become what older Colts have been for years, it's getting to the point where Model 27's and 29's are becoming the S&W equivalent of Pythons and Anacondas, of which these are topping out at $2,000+ these days. I have seen holster worn 6" 27's selling for $700. They are beautiful guns but I will not give in to this new found "frenzy" for minty S&W's from the 50's-80's that people buy and sit on hoping to retire to Florida on them in 20 years. If someone wants to invest, I wish them the best of luck in a return on it.......but my return is the number of rounds sent downrange.

[ENGINE18]

These are interesting comments and opinions! I often think about selling some of my little-used mid-70-80s K-frame .357s. Now I'm not so sure!

Then I think about aquiring another. I guess, I'm just aother addict that thinks he can kick the habit, then wants more stuff.

Speaking of which, now I gotta have one of those S&W Basket-weave holsters.

[stantheman86]

If (and it's a big "if") S&W ever either drops the MIM and IL and goes back to "traditional" revolvers, or introduces a REAL line of Classics with forged parts and no IL, the values of the older ones will be hurt a little. But this will probably never happen.

If it looks like an "old" one and has S&W stamped on the side, people will buy. For all the many people who recoil in horror at the "Classic" series, they are still flying out the door at places like Cabela's, I saw a guy who bought a Classic Model 29 and he was happy as a pig in you know what,to him it was worth the $1,000 and I guess that's what it's all about, if he got a good one and he enjoys it, I don't see what the problem is....some people act as if S&W stopped making revolvers........ And S&W isn't adding new revolvers to the "Classic" lineup for lack of selling any Model 15 with IL and MIM anyone? Smith wouldn't tool up for it if they didn't think it would be profitable.

Supply vs. demand, the supply of 1900-1990's S&W's on the market is lower and demand is skyrocketing.

I for one see nothing wrong with collecting a few honest, used condition older S&W just to have examples of them and to shoot a few times, and picking up the IL and MIM guns to use as range guns for high volume shooting......but that's just me, I usually shoot alone and don't worry about my "cool guy" status with other gun enthusiasts. I am not about to clear out my savings account to put away some NIB 27's and 29's and hope and pray the values blow up in 10 years.

The ONLY way the old S&W's will be worth a real mint is (and God I hope it never happens) if S&W "pulls a Winchester" and closes it's doors and sells the rights to their name to some ****** Japanese company. Even then, all the guys that gobbled up US made Winchesters thinking they would be worth thousands haven't really gotten a return yet. I have a mint Winchester 30-30 from the 60's and as of yet I have not retired to the Virgin Islands.

In short, the gun market is wierd.....if Ruger ever adds a lock to the GP100 people will probably start paying $900 for the ones from the 80's because those will become the "good" ones.....

[Norton 750]

Times change, my Brothers. I too used to buy K frames for around the 250 mark. I am sorry to report, those days are gone. My complaining about it won't change the facts, that our hobby finally got caught up with the times. How about ammo costs? They were low for years, because we are all cheap, then when the floodgates opened the prices jumped. All of us oldtimers can complain about the factory or the dealer screwing us, but the fact remains the prices have gone up and thats that.

[stantheman86]

My question is, when did it stop being about having fun? Gun shows used to be about lots of people looking for stuff to hunt with, shoot, or add to a collection of shooters. Now you have people looking to pad an investment.

It hasn't for me, I have fun with it every day,and my collection will never be an "investment portfolio".........it's a shame these people have infiltrated the hobby, the ones who didn't know which end the bullet came out of 5 years ago but now they are snapping up every NIB S&W and Colt they see. I wish they would stick with Beanie Babies, antique furniture and real estate........ I see a nice Model 27 that would be fun to own, someone else sees an investment oppurtunity......

The day collecting and shooting firearms stops being fun for me, is when I sell most of them and pack the rest in cosmoline and put them away and take up fishing or something. I started collecting rifles and revolvers because it's enjoyable and I have fun shooting and tinkering. Locking mint NIB guns away to sell in 10 years is foolishness to me. That's why I don't own mint, unfired guns. Just my opinion.

[stantheman86]

I just did an interesting bit of research......I had my Dad dig out the reciept from June of 1990 for the 66 2.5" be bought brand new back then. We still have the gun, it has a mint condition box with all docs, sight tool, everything. Original wood grips, gun has seen no more than a box of .38 and 12 .357's, I know because I took it to the range once back in 2004 and it's the last time it's been fired. It is pretty much mint, it spent the last 20+ years in a nylon case doing HD duty under my Dad's bed and now resides in the gun safe.Bought new for $380 + tax in 1990 dollars. It is still now a "used" gun and not "NIB" as far as the market value but for all intents and purposes is a like new gun. Barely a turn line and no flame cut. It will never be for sale, but it's a nice piece to have. An unscrupulous dealer could easily soak this gun in solvent and sell it as "unfired with light turn line" to a non-expert buyer.

Digging around on GunBroker similar 66-2's, 2.5" inchers non-P&R in used but very high condition with box,tools and docs, have been languishing with Buy Now's of $500-600 and going unsold. Sooooooo......after 23 years, maybe someone with more brains than I have can adjust $380 in 1990 dollars to 2010 dollars, to see just how much of a "gain" this gun had sitting largely unused for 23 years.

I guess the trend is only totally unfired, NIB P&R 66's are the ones getting these insane nearly $1,000 prices. Used guns, even in top condition, will continue to trade for pretty much flat prices consistent with prices of normal used guns. It seems the old theory of "shoot it a couple times, it won't hurt the value much" doesn't hold true anymore.

[tocohillsguy]

Originally Posted by stantheman86

I just did an interesting bit of research......I had my Dad dig out the reciept from June of 1990 for the 66 2.5" be bought brand new back then. We still have the gun, it has a mint condition box with all docs, sight tool, everything. Original wood grips, gun has seen no more than a box of .38 and 12 .357's, I know because I took it to the range once back in 2004 and it's the last time it's been fired. It is pretty much mint, it spent the last 20+ years in a nylon case doing HD duty under my Dad's bed and now resides in the gun safe.Bought new for $380 + tax in 1990 dollars. It is still now a "used" gun and not "NIB" as far as the market value but for all intents and purposes is a like new gun. Barely a turn line and no flame cut. It will never be for sale, but it's a nice piece to have. An unscrupulous dealer could easily soak this gun in solvent and sell it as "unfired with light turn line" to a non-expert buyer.

Digging around on GunBroker similar 66-2's, 2.5" inchers non-P&R in used but very high condition with box,tools and docs, have been languishing with Buy Now's of $500-600 and going unsold. Sooooooo......after 23 years, maybe someone with more brains than I have can adjust $380 in 1990 dollars to 2010 dollars, to see just how much of a "gain" this gun had sitting largely unused for 23 years.

I guess the trend is only totally unfired, NIB P&R 66's are the ones getting these insane nearly $1,000 prices. Used guns, even in top condition, will continue to trade for pretty much flat prices consistent with prices of normal used guns. It seems the old theory of "shoot it a couple times, it won't hurt the value much" doesn't hold true anymore.

$380 in 1990 is $635 in today's dollars.

[JSR III]

Auction prices sometimes have to be looked at with a grain of salt. Many times a buyer decides that he wants a specific model or barrel length and searches to find it. Maybe after 6 months or a year of no luck, he sees one on a site like GB and the gloves come off. Should you get two bidders vying for the same gun, the lid can come off and the bidding battle begins. Many times just the thought of not letting the other guy beat you drives the price into the stratosphere.

As far as the 66 with the 3" barrel, these were a special run of around 5000 guns and that fact can sometimes drive a buyer to pay a way over the top price to add the gun to the collection. In this dot.com world, some folks have more money that brains and price is not a factor.

On a side note, I was at a show a few months back and a guy was selling a 66-1 IIRC for around $325. I told my gun show buddy to grab it as the price was a steal at asking price. I had no interest so he decided to go for it. Since he holds an FFL he asked for a dealer to dealer price and picked up the gun for $220. I think that he owes me a beer or two.

[stantheman86]

$380 = $635 in today's dollars makes the $560 I was quoted for a brand new 64-8 at a local dealer seem a little more down to earth......

$220 for a 66 is the deal of the decade!

Auction prices are crazy, I have won fixed sight 4" Ruger GP100's for $270 with no competition, then seen the same model a month later with 10 people fighting for it and it goes for $450.......I have learned "self control" and I know when to "fold 'em" on the auction sites.

I don't shoot a lot of .357, I'm a .38 Special kind of guy, so I tend to look for 10's and 64's. Wish my Dad had bought a 3" 64 back in '90 instead of a 2.5" 66

[TNDave]

Originally Posted by stantheman86

I guess the trend is only totally unfired, NIB P&R 66's are the ones getting these insane nearly $1,000 prices. Used guns, even in top condition, will continue to trade for pretty much flat prices consistent with prices of normal used guns.

I think that is right. I bought a 2.5" Model 66-3 at a pawn shop last week with original box, docs, etc that is a very crisp gun. It has been shot a very little but doesn't look like it has been carried at all. With tax and everything it was $409. Guns go up but not very fast and you have to get them for a nice price too for it to be worth it. I have reached the point I won't buy any gun I can't at least break even on no matter how much I like it.

[Timbo22]

I think that stantheman86 is spot on for the philisophical aspects in all of this. People expecting to make a killing in LNIB Smiths are not being realistic, in my opinion. Buy guns to shoots and enjoy, invest in stocks and bonds to make money. Remember, when you want to sell that collectable Smith, you have to find the buyer that is willing to pay the price that you want.

Beyond all that, however, is that this is a practical demonstration of the corrosive effects of inflation over long periods of time on gun prices. Even at the current moderate rate of 3% inflation per year, today's $1000 gun was a $550 gun in 1990, and a $412 gun in 1980. I remember paying $300 for a new 4 inch 66-1 in 1979 (around $775 in todays money) which is about the going rate for a new 4 inch 686, even with MIM parts and the dreaded lock, here in northern Virginia.

So the $800 price for the LNIB 2 1/2 inch 66-1 (a 1980s era gun) was just keeping up with inflation. When I see a used gun, I ask myself, what are comparable new ones selling for? And then I try and make a value judgement on a case by case basis. Luckily, stainless guns can often clean up to look like new as long as they have been cared for. Those are the ones that I look for.

[wheelgun28]

Personally I feel that items that the older ones are collectible, tend to bring the newer ones up in value as they age.

Id bet that years ago the folks that were into tipups and top breaks thought that someone buying a hand ejector as a collectible was a fool because they could just buy a new one. Phff a Registered magnum, yucc give me a model 1 !!!

People that collected Model T Fords thought Mustangs were just a fad of no value or appreciation.

Most people seem to collect the things they wanted growing up. The down side is that things can loose value and get past the peak. Things that were very desirable to a past generation may not be interest the newer ones. I was told things like Lionel Trains once very collectible and hard to find now arent the hot ticket and young folks have no interest? In thirty or forty years will people put a premium on a tip up or will it be seen as just an old gun? My crystal ball doesn't work well so I dont know.

A three thoughts that were given to me years ago. These apply to any collectible item more or less.

1)Buy what you like, if you like it others may also. If it never gains value you will still have something you like.

2)Buy the best condition you can find, there might be more in that market but only a finite amount in perfect or great condition.

3)Tomorrows hot ticket is todays dud. Things that dont sell well arent made in big numbers. So theres a better chance that they will be scarce in the future.

Right or wrong I think theres some logic to the reasoning.

[stantheman86]

I was thinking that same thing today, looking at another forum where people are saying gun makers change the guns too much......changes, whether wanted or needed are part of manufacturing. I bet a lot of S&W fans back in "the day" were pretty PO'd when S&W stopped making Triple Locks, and then went to short action, and I'm sure if there were an internet back then it would be all over the forums in 1915 or so like "S&W dropped the Triple Lock, I'm not buying any new ones now"

Overall, I'm just glad S&W is still making revolvers and shooter grade stuff is still "down to Earth", I can still track down a pre-1905 M&P in decent shape for $3-400 and get a PD trade in 586 4" for $500 or so and not have to worry about it being NIB anymore. Unless you're buying mint Registered Magnums or USMC marked M&P's in .38 Long Colts and stuff like that, nothing is gonna shoot up in value in any of our lifetimes. The only guys who made money were guys who socked away Colt Peacemakers back in 1930 when they were "cheap" and unloaded them for $5,000 a piece in NIB condition, and even then it probably took decades to see a big "return".

I also think with the Republicans making progress these days, gun values overall will dip a little bit as people don't see that "urgent need" for the near future, at least, to "stock up" on every gun they might have ever wanted because there's less of a threat to our rights......I remember the prices back in Nov. 2008 even for "collectible" stuff was through the roof.....

[firearmsunlimited]

Originally Posted by imakmst

GF,

I love that holster. Got any info on it?

It looks very similar to the Bianchi 58 that is listed in the accessories for sale section here on the site.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by wheelgun28

Buy the best condition you can find, there might be more in that market but only a finite amount in perfect or great condition.

DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!

[Flint Ridge]

Thanks guys for bringing this post up to the top. Makes me feel a lot better about my LNIB 66-1, really good about it.

[Fishslayer]

Originally Posted by gilroy

This is not a buying time on these prices IMHO, but I am holding my nice ones just in case.

Dunno 'bout that. Seems that every time I see a nice older S&W it doesn't really seem to matter what price they put on it. It's gone in days. I just paid "a bit too much" for a 4" 686 no dash because it's exactly what I was looking for and I am pretty certain it wouldn't be there tomorrow.

Pretty sure I could sell it tomorrow for "more than a bit too much" but that's not why I bought it.