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12-30-2010, 04:38 PM
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"Dash" "No Dash" scheme, N frames
I've been using S&W revolvers for several decades, not so much for collection as purely shooting (and taking good care of them). I have become interested in the scheme and chronological order for some of these guns. In addition, I'd like to date a few of them if folks here have the tables to do that.
To the first point, I have a couple of M57s, N473XXX (4") and N671XXX (6"), both of which are "no dash" models. I have another, N325XXX (8 3/8") that appears to be an M57-2, but the model stamping inside the crane area is very sloppy. It almost appears to be an over strike of "M57-0" over the "M57-2" in this area. Any ideas? All of the guns appear the same model, save for barrel lengths - all P&R, RR, TT/TH, TS.
I also have a M27-2, N611XXX (5"), that I bought new in 1981 (but it had been on the shelf for several years, I believe). Any logic to the serial numbers among different models? I suspect this revolver was made about the time of the shorter barrelled M57s above, but have no reference for this.
Another interesting example is that of a now-departed M29-2, N403XXX, that I bought new in 1977 (and wore out, btw). Same questions about sequence/model/production chronology.
I'd sure be interested in the production dates of these revolvers as well; hope this may be useful to others here too. Thanks in advance.
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12-30-2010, 04:58 PM
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N300000 to N399999 was 1975/76.
N400000 to N499999 was 1977/78.
N500000 to N599999 was 1978 to 1980 with most being 28's and 57's.
N600000 to N699999 was 1979/80.
There was overlap depending on individual models.
A 57-2 would be the new yoke retention system (larger diameter spring loaded screw), but that did not start till 1988.
The dash numbers refer to engineering changes, such as the new yoke screw for the 57-2 and the elimination of the pinned barrel and counterbored cylinder at 27-3, 29-3 and 57-1.
A great reference book is the The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson which explains most of this and provides tons of other information.
Jim
Last edited by laytonj1; 12-30-2010 at 05:01 PM.
Reason: spelling
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12-30-2010, 05:52 PM
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If you have one that is overstruck, it would be that the -2 was struck over the -0, not the other way around.
A few here have reported and posted guns that were actually struck as -0 but they are few and far between in the scheme of things. I don't know if anyone really knows why they were struck like that (with the -0).
I agree with Jim above. Get yourself a copy of the SCSW 3rd and read it. It will answer many questions for you.
As for frames, serial numbers etc., since all N frames are the same, they were forged and serialized, then pulled from parts bins and used as needed, so one could have been used for a 29-2, and the very next numbered frame could have been used for a 25-2 etc.
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12-30-2010, 06:20 PM
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Thanks for the replies - on the overstrike piece, if I read Jim's post correctly, it's more likely a 57-0, as the revolver dates to the 70s, before -2 in the M57. Thank you both for the tip on the SCSW, will get one.
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12-30-2010, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GF1
Thanks for the replies - on the overstrike piece, if I read Jim's post correctly, it's more likely a 57-0, as the revolver dates to the 70s, before -2 in the M57. Thank you both for the tip on the SCSW, will get one.
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You are reading Jim's post correctly, and your gun numbers to the '76-'77 time frame, but it doesn't make any sense that there would be a -2 at all on a gun that was made 2 -dashes earlier. Are you sure it is a 2 that you are seeing?
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12-30-2010, 06:36 PM
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I see a 0 and a 2 superimposed/overstamped/whatever the right term is, and it is a sloppy job of striking (odd, as gun is very nice, action, etc., right from the start - I bought it new). I will figure out how to photograph this, and will post it.
Thanks again...
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12-30-2010, 08:02 PM
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All N-frames share the same serial number sequence. A Model 57 (introduced in 1964 at the time the Model 29-2 was in production) used up a sequence of N serial numbers and then a run of Model 29-2s used up another sequence. That is why you find Model 29-2s being made at the same time as Model 57s with higher serial numbers. Your N-frame in the N325000 range is a Model 57 (or 57-0), not a 57-2 that was made much later.
Bill
Last edited by Doc44; 12-30-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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12-30-2010, 08:46 PM
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Thank you very much, Bill, and for your contributions in preserving S&W guns and history.
Will run down the mystery (to me) of the overstrike business, -0/-2. I'll post a photo soon.
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12-31-2010, 01:28 PM
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The mystery haze clears a bit - as you can see from the first photo, my M57 apparently was stamped to be a M29-2, then over struck to a M57; hence the "-0". I didn't see the "29..." that's very faint until I magnified this photo. It left the factory in the mahogany wood case a M57...
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12-31-2010, 01:37 PM
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It's not uncommon to find misstampted model numbers. The 29 and 57 use the same frame. When the frame was to be assembled as a 57 they simply stamped over it. The -0 was used to cover the -2. Kinda neat overstamp.
Jim
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12-31-2010, 01:42 PM
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Excellent photo. That definitely clears things up.
WILDPIG
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12-31-2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laytonj1
It's not uncommon to find misstampted model numbers. The 29 and 57 use the same frame. When the frame was to be assembled as a 57 they simply stamped over it. The -0 was used to cover the -2. Kinda neat overstamp.
Jim
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Yup.
Since it was too early to be, and therefore neither a -1 or -2, they simply used the -0 to denote that fact, and prevent confusion for the buyer.
Something to talk about with your gun buddies
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12-31-2010, 02:26 PM
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12-31-2010, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
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Yup - thanks for the link, already ordered.
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12-31-2010, 05:29 PM
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Isn't this serial number too high for a no dash
I started a thread about a Model 57 I purchased yesterday because of some issues it had. Here's what puzzles me. It is a 6" nickel, no dash. The barrel is not pinned, but the cylinder is recessed. The serial number is N877xxx. Isn't this number awfully high for a no dash 57?
Thanks
Patrick
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12-31-2010, 06:33 PM
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phenson-
you have what is known as a transitional gun. S&W used up all existing inventory from the P&R guns until it was depleted. You will find guns like yours, and those with pinned barrels and non recessed cylinders.
The -2 came out in '83 with the dropping of the barrel pin and recessed chambers, and while yours is a fairly high N serial number, it is still from within the correct time frame for it.
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03-21-2018, 04:01 PM
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