Yesterday I got out my 14 to clean it up a little, and when I was cleaning behind the crane I noticed a crack in the frame below the barrel. My heart sank. It must have happened in November when I shot it last, but I don't know how I missed it when I was cleaning it afterwards. Anyway, I got online and searched and found a thread on here about cracked frames. Several of those guys were able to send their guns back and got the frame replaced, so I figured I would give it a shot and call Smith and Wesson when I got off work today.

Well, I got off the phone with them about an hour ago. The guy was a real.... well, I won't get into that part of it. He said the warranty started in 1989, and anything older than that you are on your own with. He said I could send it in to them, and they MAY offer to sell me a new one. I told him if I wanted to buy a new gun I'd go to the dealer because Smith and Wesson isn't going to cut me some amazing deal. He laughed but I wasn't joking and I don't know how he found this situation to be funny. He said my gun is junk, and I said "well the frame is, I guess I'll just have to keep my eyes open for someone selling a 14 with a bad barrel or something as long as it has a good frame". He said "no no, you can't do that, the whole gun is junk", but later in the conversation he said I could maybe find a gunsmith wanting to buy it for the parts because everything about that gun is valuable. It didn't dawn on me until after I got off the phone, but I should have reminded him about the comment he had made earlier about the "whole gun being junk". He also said that guns "that old" (it's a 1978 14-4) were tested with primitive loads and today's loads are too hot for them. I've only shot 130gr Winchester FMJs in it. I told him that and then reminded him that Smith and Wesson themselves have stated that +P ammo is fine in guns manufactured after 1958 so I know my standard loads didn't crack it. He said that was wrong because S&W didn't start testing +P until 1985 and nothing made before that should use +P. I told him that it's even in the owner's manuals that you can view on their website, then he promptly changed the subject.

Needless to say I am very upset over this. I wasn't really expecting Smith and Wesson to do anything for me and I already figured I was screwed, but the guy I dealt with just added salt to the wound. I literally cried out of frustration when I got off the phone. I don't have a lot of money to spend on guns so when I want one I have to put some money aside little by little. I was proud of this one when I got it, and now less than a year after I get it the frame cracks. It will be a while before I can do anything with it because I'm saving money for a scope to put on the rifle my wife got me for Christmas, but maybe I'll eventually find a good frame for it that doesn't cost me a lot.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

That's an astonishing response; to judge from most contacts with the company about damaged weapons, it is also completely atypical. I would call back and see if I could get another rep to talk to. If by chance the same guy picks up the phone, ask to speak to a supervisor.

The stuff about +P and contemporary "hot loads" being too much for an old 1978 revolver is just hogwash. 1978 is not old by any stretch of the imagination. There are members of this forum who shoot standard .38 Special ammo in guns that are more than 100 years old without any damage.

It may be the case that they can't offer you a repaired 14-4 because they don't have any old frames left. But they sure have the ability to offer you a courteous and informed response to your reasonable inquiry. I'd call them back. Even if you are left with no option but a gunsmith repair after you find a good frame from an older revolver, they need to learn how to say that more politely.

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David Wilson

I'm sorry for you, but be thankfull in the fact that you found the crack before the whole sidearm blew up in your face. The chances are that most people would never have found that crack.

It could have been a lot worse than what ever you paid for the sidearm. A lot of pain/suffering, plus a lot of medical bills could have entered into the equation.

Consider yourself fortuneate!

Alot about this doesn't sound right....

What do you mean?

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

.38, Can you post a photo of the cracked area of the frame? I would guess that the gun has a pinned barrel (Mfg 1978).I have heard of some frame problems with the first series of non pinned, crush fit barrels.But not on a .38 special K frame model.

The picture quality is horrible on my Blackberry. The brownish spot to the right of the crack is the reflection of my finger holding the cylinder open in the bluing lol.

CT, it does have a pinned barrel.

DCWilson, he said they didn't have any of the old style frames left, and that the new "Classic" 14s are completely different.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

I believe a good gunsmith can weld the frame and do a repair.

Thanks for the photo .38, that is a damn shame! I would take the gun to a local gunsmith and see what they suggest, maybe the frame can be repaired. Good Luck.+1 to Beemer-mark.

The Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual shows an identical crack. He mentions that it can be repaired by welding by an expert like Bob Phillippini. He also mentions that it is "expensive". ;-)

Guns get old and eventually die. I am sure that you got your moneys worth out of that gun. I would send the gun into S&W and get a discount on a new gun.

I am facing exactly the same situation with a Remington 870 that my gunsmith (a former USMC armorer qualified in the 870) has declared worn out. The top of the bolt is worn flat- its supposed to be rounded. The barrel locking lug is chipped where the bolt has been slipping. I dont have the heart to "put the old gun down", so I will let Remington do it for me. If they offer me a discount on a new gun, then so be it. After +/-40,000 rounds of trap, skeet and hunting, I think I got my moneys worth. Maybe they will fix it, but if not, RIP 870.

Really looks like a stress crack from the barrel threads being just a .001-.002 of an inch too big. Eventually any threaded assembly that is placed under too much assembly stress will find the path of least resistance- in this case, probably a less than perfect frame forging- and fail.

Just be thankful you are an observant, safe gun enthusiast and caught the issue pre-disaster.

Guns are, unfortunately just like cars and other machinery, they sometimes fail much earlier than we expect them to.

Send the gun to S&W with a courteous but detailed letter and see what they offer, you may get a better outcome than the idiot on the phone led you to expect.

Undoubtedly a flaw in the frame that eventually revealed itself. I do not believe a K frame can be cracked through anything resembling normal usage. There must have been a check in the steel.

It can be repaired but I don't think it would be cost effective. You can buy another gun for $350 or so. This one would require welding and refinishing and by the time you're done you will likely have spent almost that much and you have a repaired and refinished gun worth $250.

Best way out is to sell this gun for parts and buy another one.

Stuff happens.

PS: If you had sent it to S&W they would refuse to return it. They won't return customer guns they consider unsafe on advice of counsel.

Couldn't you just find a beat up Model 15 and swap in the parts from the 14, into the frame? You can get PD trade 15's for $200 or so.......then you could sell the leftover parts from the 15 as a "parts kit" and probably get $100 back just for the hammer and trigger alone....

And the new Model 14s with a lock are not "junk"?

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S&WHF 366

M15 and M14 frames are not the same. The Model 14 barrel will not look right on a Model 15 frame in the topstrap area, unless you find a very late Model 15 that came with the wide-rib barrel.

the bad part is even if they did warranty the gun youd get back a locked version instead of a classic version.....

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I'm only allowed 30 characters

Sometimes when calling a company, it depends on the individual you talk to. If possible, always get that persons name. Then you can call back and ask for someone else. I think its very unusual to be treated by S&W that way. I would not give up on them making it right. The next time I talked to them I would mention the discrepancies you brought up in your post. Good luck with this. I have a .38 Model 10 made in the early sixties they told me was just fine to shoot +P ammo.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

+1 on this being the lowest cost option at this point. You have decent value in selling the parts + you don't have to pay next day UPS or FEDEX shipping which isn't cheap.

People are paying $200+ for "parts kits", heck if that 14 has a Target hammer and trigger, people are paying $150 for a good matched set of those, and probably $50 for the target grips. If you find the right buyers for the parts you could probably cover most of the cost of tracking down a used one in good shape.

M29 is dead-on. The top of the barrel is contoured to match the top of the frame. I think a 14 is pretty much the only frame the barrel would look right on because I haven't seen any other Ks with the same profile. To be honest though, I haven't really been looking for donor frames for my barrel at gun shows so there may be something out there. I'd really prefer a 14 frame though because of it at least having the correct model number stamped behind the crane, even if it is a different -x variation.

The guy's name was Don. I may try to call them back, but I had already figured before I called they wouldn't have any old frames left. I was kind of hoping for them to just really want to take care of a customer and give me some really good deal on a new one, something that would be worth selling another gun to fund. Unrealistic, I know, but I figured it was worth a shot.

This one has the serrated trigger, not the target trigger, and the hammer seems like it's maybe slightly wider than the one on my 10, but I don't think it's the target hammer. In the end I know it will be cheaper to just sell this one for parts instead of trying to find a new frame. I've thought about taking it to the gun show today and see if I run across someone who is looking for something like this or knows someone that is, but I'm worried that someone would be dishonest about it and just resell it to someone as it is to make a good profit. I even had a friend tell me to just trade it off, but I can't do that. There is no way I could take someone's money knowing it wasn't right.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

I'm sorry you had this bad luck. But with your character and integrity, something good will come your way, sooner or later. Sometimes, just knowing you did the right thing is its own reward.

If I had a Model 14, I'd give it to you.

.38 Sharpshooter... You got an idiot at S&W. It happens. I have spoken with one or another a couple of times over the years. You can call back and try to get someone with some sense, or you can just box up the gun and send it to them - along with a nice letter explaining things and asking for their help. (Don't mention your fun phone call with the idiot.)

I would probably do that. You can imagine that the clown you spoke with on the phone probably also speaks to all sorts of clowns in in-coming calls. He was a clown in clown-response mode. I'd bet sending the gun with a nice letter will net you a better response.

If S&W threatens to keep your damaged gun, just ask them nicely to send back all your parts (which do have value). You can sell the parts here and use the money to help offset the cost of buying another used Model 14.

I understand your frustration but the guys who say things happen to guns are right. Once in a great while, you get stung. Just do this "by the book" and you may come out better than you expect. Good luck.

This is my 2 cents worth. I would call the factory and ask to talk to the highest person in the company. I would then ask them if they can't do anything about, ask them to sell you a NEW 14 FOR THE PRICE THEY CHARGE THE DEALERS WHEN THEY LEAVE THE S&W FACTORY! I've had a Model 14 since 1970, I carried it on duty (I'm a Police Office) for many years with absolutely no problems. I probably shot every kind of ammo I could get through it with no problems. GOOD LUCK AND I HOPE THEY MAKE IT RIGHT WITH YOU..........CookE

Sorry about your M14! Others have given you great advice!

Consider this . . . if the gun had been built by a rookie employee in '78, that employee would now have worked for the company almost 35 years . . . and seen lots of changes in ownership and such.

That's a nice amount of time for a "tool" to hold up but unfortunately, its time to put that sweet puppy down.

There are some nice M14s out there too. They are great K-frames usually . . . even though some of 'em only last for just over a third of a century.

Thank you for the kind words

Thank you for the advice. I am going to call them again on Monday and see where I go from there. I know guns wear out, it just sucks when it happens not long after I get it. Anything mechanical can and will break, it's just a matter of when.

A new revolver at dealer cost would be a good deal. I wonder how much that would be?

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice, I really appreciate it.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

I know of a really good revolver 'smith local to me...I have seen him repair this exact defect. If you want his contact info, I would be glad to pass it along....I have seen one that he repaired (same crack as yours) but it was a stainless model 66, so I can not comment on the re-finish issue...best luck getting it resolved.

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On the Oak Savannah

If I do decide to part this one out, could I keep the internals and swap them into my Model 10? The trigger pull is so much nicer on the 14 than on the 10 in both single and double-action.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

That is bs. Reminds me of a call I had with them a few years ago. I had purchased a really nice pre 17 at a gun show that, unbeknown to me, had been rechambered to .22 mag. I called S&W to see if they could replace the cylinder and they said the only thing they could do was fit a stainless cylinder to it! I wound up tracking the guy that sold it to me down at the next show and making him swap it for another pre 17 (unfortunately not as nice, but mechanically tight).

If it was me I think I would part it out and right here on this forum in the classifieds is a great place to do it. I have had some luck selling miscellaneous parts here. You could probably at least get what you originally paid for the gun anyhow.

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Member MVGCA, OGCA, NRA Life

I've thought about it all weekend and I think parting it out is going to be the route I go. It's either I lose some money parting it out, or hold on to it for who knows how long waiting to find someone selling a 14 with a good frame but with some other problem forcing them to sell it cheap.

I would love to get the 14's internals into my 10 though because the 10 isn't nearly as smooth as the 14, but I don't know if everything is compatible where it would be a drop-in deal.

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386NG, M&P R8, M&P40c, 460 XVR

They are the same size frame and the trigger and hammer should interchange. Sometimes they will simply interchange, most times some fitting is required, and sometimes a heck of a lot of fitting is necessary!

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I would give the parts swap a try,you can check the action with the sideplate off the gun.Just use a cylinder full of snap caps and dry fire the gun a few dozen times to check the alignment of the SA&DA trigger sears.If you find that you have any binding or if something doesn't feel right,put the original parts back in.