robbt,

Both of my current 58's are first year guns and they have an S prefix

I am currently in the market for a well worn 58 for a project however.

I did not buy the one off of gunbroker...it was already sold when I went looking for it.....it was priced well under the market and should have sold quickly.

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On the Oak Savannah

howdy , i hak a early first production run and a very late nickel 58 .robbt

robbt,

Mine is an S prefix.

Cheers,

Rick

My two "butchered" 58s are one of each. The parkerized one is a 1964 "S" and the customized Mag-Na-Ported blue one is a 1974 "N" prefix.

...and SAF...what kind of "project" are you planning??

Bob

Bob,

I have a 3" 57 barrel to install. To make 57-58 kind of like Doc44's 29-58....Fixed sight N frame with full lug and round butt I have a picture of Doc44's gun around here somewhere....

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On the Oak Savannah

Mine is an N prefix M58; manufactured in 1973 and shipped on May 28, 1975.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

hi xtrooper , do you have the original wood grips ??
if so what color are the washers , silver or black ??s

Sorry, no. I have a set of proper PC Magnas for it (with black washers), but they are not original to the revolver.

When I purchased mine, it was wearing a set of regular Magnas. I've seen many M58's wearing regular Magnas and I believe this is simply because they made them a little more comfortable to shoot than the smaller, more narrow PC Magnas.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

THAT gun you're talking about is still in Davis, waiting for me to pick up. It didn't come with PC magna's but came with a real nice set of Cokes. The gun looks much better in person than the pics posted on GB. Paid $642.
In addition, it's an S series gun, 1968 issue.
The gun Scott is talking about I helped him buy a couple years back. That gun came from Glens Collectibles in Montgomery, NY. It's a first year 58 with numbered stocks.

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Sure you did

Hi Xtrooper , should the late model 58s grips have silver washers ????

I honestly have no idea, Rob.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

hi guys , any ideas ???

I haven't been around for a while, so not sure if this one was already posted, but here's one that I believe is a first year model; SN S256838:






-S2

When it rains, it pours as they say.

I had been working on getting this one for quite some time now. Finally the owner caved in today and I just got home with it.

S prefix, 259XXX dates to late 1965. No box or goodies, but very lightly used. Unknown to origin but I am going to letter both of the 58's I now have in my collection.

The stocks are obviously not correct, but are nice none the less. I will probably use this one as my shooter and add a set of period correct football targets for range time.

I would rate it at about 96-98% condition, and I may be a bit conservative on that. I am happy to be able to now have both the blue and nickle examples in my collection...

Better photos soon, but wanted to put it up tonight.






58Club_zps2f524c37.png Photo by D500HemiRam | Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd116/D500HemiRam/58Club_zps2f524c37.p@@AMEPARAM@@227.photobucket.com/albums/dd116/D500HemiRam/58Club_zps2f524c37.p

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Take your time..quickly.

Outstanding example! Congratulations!

Mine was also wearing regular Magnas when I bought it as were MANY M58's I've run across. As I've said before, my theory for this is that guys swapped out the PC Magnas for regular Magnas on these guns because they were an inexpensive avenue to more comfortable grips for shooting the .41 Magnum. There are just way too many of these revolvers found wearing regular Magnas (which had obvious been on them a long time) for it to be coincidental.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I may live to regret this, but I doubt it.

I decided to try and sort through all of the little known facts of which law enforcement agencies used the Model 58. This has been hampered by the fact that not much information is actually in print from verifable sources.

Many agencies allowed the use of the .41 Magnum as a officer purchased weapon. Due to this, my research also includes the Model 57.

My first confirmed source came last night in a email to me from the President of the San Jose California Police Historical Society.
____________________________________________________
Good Evening Sir,

We did use that firearm in the same period as the SFPD, and modeled some of our training and standards on what they did. The .41 Magnum Model 58 or Model 57 was a personal choice weapon, the officer had to purchase it with their own funds (I know this because my father used one through the 1980’s). Chief McNamara began to phase out the Model 66 revolvers (that were department issued from the 1970’s after the model 58) after an officer involved shooting in 1989 that led to the death of two officers (Silva-Simpson). The department issued S&W 3906 semi-automatic firearms that were selected because they held the least amount of rounds. In early 1996 the Smith and Wesson 3906’s were phased out for the Sig 9mm. Just recently, we began to issue the Glock 9mm to police recruits in 2012. I hope this answers your questions, if there is something more specific you would like to know please ask.

John Carr
President
San Jose Police Historical Society



(Photos courtesy of the San Jose PD Historical Society)
____________________________________________________

I thought this would be of interest to the members and I am continuing to get more information as time goes on.

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Take your time..quickly.

Well, gosh, I was hoping posting into this thread that someone would take pity and my inbox would have some offers of shooter 58s at a price I could afford.
I guess I'll give up on the Easter Bunny, too.
The Great Pumpkin's still okay, though, right?

FANTASTIC information and photos! Thank you for sharing them!

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

oldafsp You may want to check with the Florida State Police on 41 mag use as well. Many,many years ago I read an Officer Involved Shooting report involving a Florida State Trooper and a model 58. IIRC at the time the Troopers were carrying the true 41 Mag load 210JHP and not the lower velocity police load.
Chip King

Hi Guys, please keep us up to date on the factory letters on your model 58's, I contacted the head for Nevada Police Association concerning there issueing model 58 , only info he could provide is they were " S " series , hopifully someone model 58 may letter to a PD agency and assit us

What a small world, I just bought S2590XX. Recently sent it to the Performance Center to have the excessive end float corrected and to have it reblued. Other than the end float, it had the best action of any unmodified factory gun I've ever felt. Unfortunately, no pictures yet.

Keith 410-693-9265

I seem to have misplaced my S&W book, the edition I got my username in! , what was the first year of production, 64? I hope to find my birth year for my next 58 purchase, I believe 1966 is still a S prefix serial number. My current 58 is a N.

Update to my last post about the new (for me) model 58.

Holster came, and I got out to shoot again.

Holster is a Desantis N-frame thumb break style. It rides well. I wear a wide belt.

This time I did pretty good groups (for me) at ~7 yards. My dad came with me to the indoor range this time. We shot Remington 210 gr. JSP. He stood behind me, and he said that after I let loose the first shot, the boom was so loud that all the other shooters stopped and looked at our lane. When I finished up, the range officer's first words were, 'That was quite a show'.

I couldn't be happier with the model 58. It's a beautiful revolver that runs like a sports car.

Attached Images

	holstered.jpg (36.7 KB, 88 views)
	grouping.jpg (56.3 KB, 59 views)

I believe it was July 10th of 1964 when the 58 was officially introduced. It was preceeded by the Model 57.

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Take your time..quickly.

Yes, 1964 to 1977.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

FWIW, the M58 that I purchased new in '66 was serial #S259996.
I didn't keep it much longer than a year due to the cost and availability of ammo at the time

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JimC

oldafsp....If you are looking for agencies that allowed the use of 57s and 58s I can tell you both Dallas and Houston PDs did at least up until the 1990s.

I carried 57s and 58s on Dallas PD from 1977-1988. I believe calibers larger than .357/.38 Special were eliminated in about 1993. Houston had allowed officers to carry .41 probably from the time .41s came into being. A good friend carried a nickel 6" 57 in 1972 when I was living there and I know he had been carrying since the 1968 riots when his city issue .38 kinda let him down.

Bob

My PD did not issue handguns back in the early 70s. My retired lieutenant carried a four inch Model 57 for several years.

During inservice this past October I was allowed to qualify with my Model 57. I have to carry my department issued Sig P220 while on patrol, but I tote the mighty .41 mag when I'm at court, etc.

It is a conversation piece like no other every time I wear it to something work related.

I would love to have a Model 58 to go with it. Hint, hint.

gentleman , when you carried your .41 magnums on the job , what holster did you use ?? any accessories ??

basket weave or plain?

Thank you Bob, I have Dallas PD on my list as OIQ (optional if qualified) and Houston PD also.I have found unconfirmed references on your department stating the 41 was used from 1964 on. Now I can put a relative end year on that line.

For the members that keep up with this. It is by no means a small effort to research this. Trying to sort through postings on various gun forums, magazine articles, gun tests and the like.
Urban ledgends also have survived through countless stories told over the years.
When this project is done, I hope to have compliled the best information available and if a 4th Edition of the Standard Catalog of S&W is ever published, have it included.

I spent three years stationed at Lackland AFB. From 1975 to 1978 I was assigned as an instructor at the Air Force Security Police Academy. One of my neighbors was a San Antonio PD traffic officer, whom I shot with on a regular basis.

I had the wonderful opportunity to fire his Model 58 on numerous occassions. And therefore began my interest in this particular S&W.

So, even if you have any small piece of information, it greatly appreciated.
George
oldafsp

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Take your time..quickly.

Here's a pic of my twins, one an "S" and the other an "N" prefix. Got the "S" at a great price from a friend and I was hooked! Fell in love with the caliber and the gun, hefty, no nonsense and built like a tank! Kept searching for another and came across the second one again at a great price! Mine shoot POA with Win Silvertips and love 170 grn JHP over 9.2 grn Unique.They are an addiction!

Attached Images

mod58.jpg (51.8 KB, 63 views)

Very nice, azrudy!

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I do like these. Very nice!

Cheers,

Rick

hi guys , I got the reseach bug a few years ago I got a couple of responses , here one, robbt

Our Smith & Wesson .41 magnum revolvers were issued in the late 1970’s. I am not sure of the exact dates but it was about 1978 or 1979. We switched from the .38 cal S&W. We used them until 1990 when we switched to the Glock .40 cal and the Glock .45 cal pistols.

There was no standard holster. Some wore thumb break holsters, some had open trigger holsters and others had the clam shell type. All leather was basketweave. All guns, leather and ammo were department issued/purchased.

The department phased out the pistols in 1990. At that time we had 43 issued guns with a few in reserve. That included all the full time police officers and our auxiliary force.
We used factory ammo. I believe it was Winchester hollow point ammo.

Officers carried 6 round in the gun and 12 extra rounds.
Officers used speed loaders, loops and dump pouches.
Some officers modified their gear and carried a combination
of 1 speed loader and a 6 round loop.

I still have mine at home.


Sincerely,


Lieutenant Mark W. Preuss
Sharonville, Ohio Police Department
10900 Reading Rd.
Cincinnati, Ohio 45241

hi guys , in light that we are al together perhaps we can collect serial block and when guns are lettered perhap we can ID which blocks were PD orders ??
just a thought all worn out now time for bed, robbt

I have a SFPD Stamped HOYT wonder if a model 58 rode in that holster ???
stuff dreams are made of

Robb I have added the Sharonville information to my list. Thank you.

Hoyt if I recall built the first clamshells. And other designs and were very popular on the West Coast with law enforcement agencies along with Safety Speed.

The last references I have found to Hoyt are dated around 2000 and they are since out of business.

I used this Safety Speed swivel rig for many years and still have it. I knew several departments that used N frames and have seen these used also over the years also.

I would love to find one for my 58's.

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Take your time..quickly.

S3143xx, with TH and TT. Better condition that the pics I saw posted. Someone painted the front sight.

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Sure you did

howdy oldafsp, please tell us more about the safety speed holster you carried any accessoiee s a pic would be great, robbt

Your asking me to dust off the old memory bank robbt..

I aqquired the Safety-Speed rig during a TDY(temporary duty assignment) to Vandenburg AFB in 1978. West coast departments always seemed to have the best choice of duty gear.

I was researching new equipment standards for the Air Force while assigned to the SP Academy. As times were changing, and a group of us were forwarding our recommendations up the chain of command. We were desperately trying to bring our equipment more in line with our civilian counterparts.

That said, the Safety-Speed was used by LAPD, LASO,CHP and numerous departments in So Cal back then. I tried one at a invitational combat match when I was there and loved it.

For patrol duty it was the ultimate rig for me. Comfortable and fast drawing. Well constructed with heavy stitching and heavy duty hardware. This rig I wasn't allowed to use during my military duties but it followed me into civilian law enforcement and served me well for many years until we sent to semi autos.

Ammunition carrier prior to the 1970's were the standard cartridge slide or belt loops or pouches. Either the fold over dump pouch or the double ended type. HKS made the rapid reloading of wheelguns affordable to officers and are still the most popular in my opinion.

Whereas departments in the Northeast were using makers such as Jay-Pee or Bucheimer. On occassion you would see some Safariland or Bianchi, but they were horribly expensive and not readily available in most gun shops or uniform dealers.

Don Hume was widely used during those wheelgun days and of very high quality. The Jordan Holster was the benchmark of leather gear, durable and beautiful at the same time. Hume made one of the very best double lined Sam Browne duty belts.

The basketweave pattern was much more durable than than plain leather for showing wear from daily use. And then of course we had the world famous Clarino patent leather finish... High gloss and useful for parade details but prone to cracking and splitting. And one dig from a door frame in Clarino was a glaring scar.

Comparing notes with others over they years, many officers had to supply their own gear. This was far more common in the southern states. Sometimes there were department standards or the officer was given an allowance for the purchase of his/her gear. Sometimes gear was let out to bid and of course the low bidder won.

I think that the history of law enforcement leather is a hand in hand subject with what we share here on the forum. And there is so much history to be learned.

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Take your time..quickly.

oldafsp, great , when you state Safety speed I thought you were talking about a clamshell or front Break , I now see you carried a Safety Speed varition of the Border Patrol or Jordan style holster, many thanks,
wish I could find some dump pouches for my .41 magnums , will try to post a picture on my late model 58 tomorrow, the holster will be a suprise.

ineresting were Hoyt used during this era ??
most I see are dated late 1970's uo to the 90's when auto became king.
sorry been in the rhine wine.

I saw several agencies using Hoyt's during the '70s. Most popular was the break front design, as if afforded better retention than traditional designs.

Losing your sidearm to a suspect or assailant is not a good thing. Many makers brought different designs to the table.

Thankfully, I never got myself into a potentially dangerous situation when I had to worry about my sidearm being taken from me. It could have gone that way a few times, but didn't.

As far as dump pouches go for your .41, you can use the 44/45 model made by Triple K. They fit just fine. And you will be surprised at the cost. They make quality goods.

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Take your time..quickly.

Other departments...I know that Evan Marshall carried a Model 58 when he was with Detroit PD....I believe officers had to carry the city issue .38 but were allowed anything for backup....which usually got drawn first.

Iggy (Forum Member) was with the Wyoming Highway Patrol and carried a 58 on duty...

Was talking to Peter Pi the owner of CorBon at the SHOT Show last year. He was also in LE and carried a 58...not sure where however.

Duty leather...Dallas was very "ununiform"...you could carry about any holster other than a breakfront....plain, Cordavan or basketweave. I carried plain leather. Had 2 HKS Speed loaders in a HKS pouch. Holsters were:

Safariland highrise thumbsnap....lost a 57 pushstarting a motorcycle and 58 out of it during a foot chase and stopped using it. It is very unnerving to have the little brother of the guy you just tackled run up to you with a handgun..."hey he has a gun just like mine...wait a minute that IS mine"....very unnerving...

Can't remember the name of the maker of the next holster but he was a Texas Highway Patrol officer. Steel lined, straight drop and held the gun well if the safety snap came undone. It was just a little too low to be comfortable when seated in a car.. Last was a G.William Davis straigh drop...I still have the holster. GREAT holster, probably the best duty holster for a revolver ever made. Had a tension screw so the gun would not come out if the thumbsnap came undone during a footchase.. Had a shop at the time and was one of his dealers. Had lots of these made for the local officers and he made a bunch for the 3" S&W Combat Specials that were coming out in the mid-1980s.

Bob

You folks probably already know this, but the Pennsauken, NJ PD also carried Model 58's for a time, as well.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

hi Guys , here is the results of my emails inqueries on Nevada Highway Patrol .questions I asked are on the bottom , did not get all the aswer I was seeking but after several decades ,, well


Rob, I talked to a retired Trooper who was a range master. He said that the Nevada did carry a S&W .41 magnum during this period of time but he thought that they changed weapon earlier than 1984. He said he believed that it was the Model 58, which everyone had the fixed sights. I can remember that they were blued. As for the other information you want, I will need to contact some of the older retired Troopers. They went away from this when female officers started to hired because they could not fire the weapon accurately. If you could tell me the purpose of your research, I will see if I can locate some more information which you requested.

Frank Adams
Executive Director
Nevada Sheriffs' and Chiefs' Association
P.O. Box 3247
Mesquite NV 89024

Rob, I had a chance to talk to a retired range master from the Highway Patrol. He said that the Nevada Highway Patrol carried a .41 magnum during that time. It was a S.





Greeting , can you please assist me , I am doing research on the Smith & Wesson Model 58 in .41 Magnum that your Dept once issued can you please assit me in a few queries ??


Were the revolvers blued or nickled ??

Date of issue and removal from service ??

How many did the Dept issue ??

Holsters issued or recommended ??

Issue Ammo ??

How was the spare ammo carried, loops or dump pouche ??

How many extra rounds was policy ??


Many thanks, robbt

hi guys , I just finished reading a article on reloading the .41 magnum , in the article the author mentionsin the 1960's seeing boxes of .41 magmum ammo marked .41 Police ???
has anyone seen any or have a picture ??
last post for tonite , robbt

So, I'm still new and learning about my model 58.

The 'ammo situation' is just that, a situation for me, since I do not handload (yet). I'm stuck with factory loads, and I wanted to ask which load does what in the model 58.

I have the 210 gr. Remington JSP, both in the Express and High Terminal Performance series. (What's the difference?)

I also bought some 210 gr. Speer DeepCurl Hollowpoints (I think they are Gold Dots), which are their hunting loads.

I figure the Speers are better for self defense, and that's what I'm currently carrying in the model 58.

The Remingtons kick and scream pretty good at the range.

1) What factory loads are good for the model 58 for defense?
2) What sort of velocities should I expect from the Remington and Speers?

Thanks.

My favorite .41 Magnum factory carry load is the Winchester 175gr Silvertip. Its recoil is very manageable and it has a long and enviable street record. From the 4" barrel of the Model 58, it has a muzzle velocity of ~1150-1175 fps. My own M58 is always loaded with them unless I'm woods walking. In those instances, I switch to the Winchester 240gr Platinum Tips.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into the 175 gr. Silvertips. Would the 1050 muzzle velocity make these closer to '41 special' power, or a mild magnum load? I assume with a bullet of .41 diameter and 175 grains, we don't need super high velocities.

The Remington 210 SP runs in the area of 1325 fps from a 4" barrel. They modestly expand and penetrate like no tomorrow. They are probably the hardest kicking of all the factory ammo, that said I have not tried the 265 hardcast from Buffalo Bore. There is no difference in the ammo...just an old box and a new box.

The Speer Gold Dot/Deep Curl HPs run in the high 1200s from a 4"...I think it was 1280 from my 57. They expand very well all the way down into the 950 fps range. Speer used to call everything with a Gold Dot HP "Gold Dot" but now have that designation for their personal defense ammo and Deep Curl for their "hunting" rounds. So again if you have an old box marked Gold Dot and a new box named Deep Curl it is the same bullet and same velocity.

As to personal defense factory ammo, probably the best going right now are those made with the Barnes 180 grain copper bullet. Velocity is in the 1300s but recoil noticeably less than the 210s. When I spoke with Peter Pi of CorBon he stated this is what he is now carrying in his 57 and 58 when he carries a .41 for personal defense. Federal, CorBon, Barnes and several others market ammo using that bullet. It is what I have been carrying in my 57.

There is also a new company with solid copper bullets that have a HP noticeably larger than the Barnes. They are C.O.P. and the bullets and ammo are available through MidwayUSA. The owner of the company gave me a half a dozen bullets at the SHOT Show last year but didn't have the time to test them this last summer as planned.

The mildest shooting would be the Winchester 175 SilverTip HPs at 1225 fps....but they may shoot a little low in a fixed sight 58. But at defense ranges it really won't make any difference...


















Hope this helps....Bob

What Superman/Bob said.

And, yes, the Silvertips do shoot a bit low out of the M58, but not enough for a bad guy to notice.

Oh, and sorry about the velocities I mentioned above. I was quoting from memory (not a good thing anymore). It should have read (now edited): ~1150-1175 fps.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)