Does anybody have a good picture of the elusive cracked forcing cone of a K-frame .357 mag.I have never seen one.I have got, and shot a lot of K's, but have never seen one.Is this an urban myth.Please educate me.

Oh no it is far from an urban myth. The biggest thing was the old adage of shooting 125 grain bullets from the early Model 19 revolvers. Butch Kent did a piece on this very issue back a couple of years ago. Here is the link-
Use of Magnum Loads in S&W Model 19 and Other K-Frame Magnums

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Vaya con Dios

Funny how you never hear of M13s with this problem.

Lots of 19-5s.

Some cracked with 158 grain Magnums. So much for the 125 grain theory.

Some cracked with 38 Specials. So much for Magnum theory.

I suspect "hot spots" created by lead and carbon build up may contribute. But again, why no stories of cracked 13s? And why SO MANY 19-5s have failed?

I also suspect that S&W had a lot of trouble with defective barrels on numerous models starting in the very late 1970s and through the present day.

That subject has been discussed around here a bunch, it has happened. Experts seem to agree that it's the steady stream of high velocity 357's that could cause a problem. one thing stated is to make sure extra time is taken when cleaning around the forcing cone as a buildup of residue weakens the steel. I shoot a 4" barrel Mod. 66. If carrying I don't sweat it even the dreaded 125 grain JHP but you are going to the range to put a hundred or so through it, shoot 38 specials & +Ps. You can make the last 6 357's. Why take a chance on one of S&W's finests of all times even if it's a thousand to one.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I had it happen 25 or so years ago, M19-3. Real hot 125 gr. handloads. Sent it to Smith. They replaced the bbl no charge. Dont know that they will today.

A few years ago I purchased a M&P 4th in the 482000 range from a local gun shop. I got it very cheaply as you could not open the cylinder. I noticed while checking it out that the barrel was cracked at the 6 o'clock position, and was hitting the front of the cylinder. Took it home used a small punch to knock the barrel away from the cylinder, and the cylinder would open. I replaced the barrel with one from Numrich, and revolver was back in action. I neglected to take before pictures, but I still have the barrel, and have taken some pictures of the crack. The crack has been some what changed in appearance as I had to file the outside of the barrel to allow it to be removed from the frame. The revolver was chambered in 38 special, and would not chamber a 357 Magnum.

It may be because there are fewer M13s and were issued to law enforcement and therefore not fired as much as M19s shot by civilians.

I don't think as many rounds are fired through the majority of model 13's as there are 19's.

I bought a 19 with a split forcing cone and replaced the barrel - it does happen, no urban myth.

I suspect a combination of build up sans proper cleaning in the forcing cones and light pills/high pressure loads as been ascribed to it. Though I've never heard about it I don't doubt Saxon Pig's theory of batches of sub-standard metallurgy in some runs is possible/responsible - make sense. Given the cost/mechanics of a recall/replacement verses the miniscule numer of instances in which it occurs and the time passed before the problem manifested, even if that were true and S&W even knew about it - no one is likely to acknowledge such as proving it would be next to impossible.

Personal anecdotes to be taken for what they're worth, but I've owned at least 8 or 10 model 19's over the years and at least a half-dozen 13's. The 13's saw no where near the number of rounds sent downrange as the 19's. Couple that with myriads of police model 19's dumped into the civilian market (which I would strongly suspect highly outnumbers the model 13's put to the same duty) and you have a lot of revolvers that were shot with (probably) a lot of lead practice loads by folks the majority of which never heard of a Lewis Lead Remover and always just "blew the lead out" with some jacketed loads; hence, the over-stressing of an area already weakened by the cut to make room for the crane.

Yet there are still those that take the position it's a big myth and it doesn't happen. Of course, there are also those out there that believe the moon landing was faked and the World Trade Center Towers were brought down with explosives at the bases

"Experts seem to agree that it's the steady stream of high velocity 357's that could cause a problem."

What experts are these? The same ones who didn't read what I said about some 19s cracking with 38 Special ammo?

Google is your friend.
Less than 1/8 second:

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NRA - All Day

In the four years since I joined this forum I would bet there have been at least a dozen, probably more, posts where the poster is asking where he can find a replacement barrel for his Model 19 as his has a "Cracked forcing cone" and needs to be replaced.

My question to you would be do you think all pf these people are only perpetuating an "urban myth" and don't really have a damaged barrel, or have you simply not been paying attention? These have been first person reports, not "I saw, heard, my cousin has" etc. Just think, if that many of the, probably less than 1%, of S&W revolver owners have experienced this problem, how many others of the 99% or so that don't belong have had this problem and haven't reported it anywhere?

There is simply too much anecdotal evidence that this happens to question the reality.

Looking at the photos, I hope we are all reminded of the importance of throughly cleaning a firearm after each time we shoot it. Not so much for the 'cleanliness' factor, but as a way to thoroughly INSPECT the firearm. I found a crack in the barrel underlug of a Hi-Power 'clone' one time while I had it apart for cleaning. Had I continued to shoot it, who knows just what would have happened. At the very least, probably an irreparably damaged gun. I love my K frames, and have shot many .357s through them. But, I also carefully inspect even the most basic and rugged S&W revolvers regularly for any signs of damage or malfunction.

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LEO since 1981.

Have said it here before. In 1986 my 4" nickel 19 forcing cone cracked at 6 o-clock and tied up the gun. I ordered a replacement barrel from Ocala arms and changed it out. I still have the bad barrel. I was shooting 168 gr. cast bullets in mine when it happened. Forcing cone was clean not crapped up as some have indicated on other guns. BTW my 66 from that era has never given me a problem.

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S&W Accumulator

Thanks guys, interesting. So now what about Big Foot.

I have a 19-4 with 2.5" barrel that had the forcing cone split on it a few years ago. I was firing my anual qualification course so that I can carry it as my back up gun and half way through the forcing cone cracked on me. I was shooting 158 grain jhp .357 magnum winchester white box. It caused the cylinder to bind and not turn. At that point I knew something was wrong. Well after 6 months of looking for another 2.5" nickle barrel I finally found one. Now I only shoot 38 special in the gun so it keeps the chamber pressure down.

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M.J.Hanna

I've seen two of them. One a buddy bought used and then found it and another was also a buddys gun an ex police gun that was well used. Nothing mythical about what I looked at.

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Stay safe people!

We need to remember that the Model 19 was designed and produced in the mid 1950's when police practiced with .38 Special wadcutter ammunition, and not very often in most police departments. The .357 Magnums were then loaded up for street use. Also recall that .357 Magnum ammuntion was loaded exclusively with soft lead bullets. I don't recall jacketed bullets until the 70's. Lead bullets are considerably softer than jacketed bullets, so would give somewhat when entering the forcing cone. When circumstances indicated that police should practice with the same ammunition as they carried daily, added to more firearms training and regular qualification, the model 19 was being used a lot more than when introduced. And this ammunition being shot had evolved into the jacketed bullet era. The Model L frame 586 & 686 was introduced in 1980 to provide a heavier frame to handle heavier use of .357 ammunition. If I had a k frame .357, I would shoot it sparingly with .357 ammunition and save the heavy shooting for the L & N frames.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I have a M65-2 pinned barrel that has that kinda squared of look on the 6:00 side. I have had this 65-2 for about 5 years and it came from CDNN and was a Texas Department of Corrections revolver. Question,would that cause the cracking in the forcing cone??? It is flat at that 6:00 side so,I am just asking.

The dimensions of the K frame required that the barrel be "shaved" (that flat at 6 o'clock) to provide clearance for the crane so the cylinder assembly could close/lock up.

Man,
Yoonzes are gonna gimme bad dreams tonight. I only shoot 158 gr..357 in my K frame. God forbid finding a crack. Got to clean the cone often and completely and I think that helps a lot. My K frame is a 65 with the 4" stainless barrel, and some folks say there ain't no more barrels to be found. I have shot it for years and it still is tight and accurate.
I hope I don't dream about this............
gordon

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better have that checked

I'm also in possession of a 65-1, I like it because it feels and shoots like my 10-6 and I can use the same holster. I've worried also about the "crack". I shoot only cast bullets in all my guns and only hand loads, the only problem I have noticed is that the chamber throats on the 65-1 tend to lead much faster than any other 357 I have. I clean it well every time and attribute the lead accumulation to it being stainless steel, does not lead the cone or bore. Seems that the stainless 357's don't suffer the crack problem, whats up Doc?

Anyone have any, or seen any, pictures of a Model 66 with a cracked forcing cone? This has been touched on in previous posts, but I don't think that you'll find many M66s with cracked cones.

Differences in metals?

In any event, I have seen many photos of M19s with cracked cones, but no M66s.

Long live the M66!!!

Like I said earlier, 19s have cracked with 38s.

I still believe there is something wrong with the barrels on the failed guns. Either material or installation.

The agency I retired from issued Model 66's from around 1974 through 1995. Standard ammo was Remington 125 grain Magnum, with the option of Remington 125 grain 38 Special. Like many agencies of the time we used reloaded ammo for practice and qualification, both 357 Magnum and 38 Special. The Magnum reloads were 158 grain lead RN, around 1200 fps. The department armorer had several barrels from the 66's with cracked forcing cones in his junk pile. No way to know what ammo caused the cracks.

KAC

I'd say leaded forcing cones from these is a good contributory possibility !

I have read this before about other department armorers that had several barrels of K frame magnums with cracked forcing cones. There is one member on this forum who worked in a armorer and he posted some time ago in this forum that even the Ruger Security Sixes they used in his department were wearing out barrels do to high amounts of 125 gr 357 ammo. A lot of this could be the lack of cleaning deposits off the forcing cone. Also I believe the cracked forcing cones are from high round counts through revolvers and again lack of cleaning them. There is no doubt in my mind that as great as the K frame magnum is the one weakness is the flat spot at the 6 a clock position. I have three K frame magnums and do shoot 357 magnums through them. Mostly 158 gr. I will shoot about 25 to 30 rounds per revolver a year. The rest is 38 special ammo. I clean my K frames magnums and my 38 special revolvers thoroughly especially around the forcing cone every 50 rounds or less. I have no noticeable wear in the forcing cone area. My K frames are older pinned and recess models except for my model 66. I think the issue of cracked forcing cones is way overdone. I am not going to lose sleep at night wondering if any of my K frames is going to crack a forcing cone. I bought them to enjoy them. Most likely I am going to past them down to my kids or even my grandkids when I am gone.
Howard

Jeez, I'm paranoid now! My K-frames (19-3, 2-1/2; 66-2, 2-1/2; 65-5, 3-inch) probably don't have a combined 50 .357 rounds through them and I doubt I'll shoot much more. Just another reason to use the various 158SWCHP+P ammo available. And just another reason to shoot my 28-2, 4-inch if I get "magnumitis!"

Don't sweat it, Fireman. K-frame magnums were made to shoot .357s as well as .38s. I used to get hung up on it myself - starting in the late 90s. (Thanks, Internet!) Before that I was blissfully ignorant, and shot both magnums and .38s without giving too much thought to the specific loadings. Granted, I shot, and still shoot, mostly 38s primarily due to the fact that is simply less wear and tear on the guns. But, I have since made my peace with my Ks and the whole cracking cone issue. Granted mine are all stainless.

Like many have wisely stated on this forum... as long as you keep your Ks clean, I seriously doubt you'll have any problems. A gun is a man-made thing. Therefore, a certain sampling is destined to break. We all have seen cars with 200,000 plus miles on them that look absolutely pristine and run like a charm (with no significant maintenance issues, but were kept meticulously clean). And, then we have seen cars with 50,000 miles that were on their last tank due to abuse.

Even the most expensive and best designed things can and do break. Odds are... take care of your Ks and they will take care of you.

Happy shooting and happy cleaning. And, then have comfort in knowing that your heirs will likely do the same with the same.

Stay safe.

This has always been my concern with K fram magnums. It has kept me from buying them for the last 5 years. I really like the size and handeling of the K frame revolvers but has always been leary of shooting Mag ammo through them. I am trying to get over it but dont wanna get on and it crack and be stuck with no way to fix it.

I shoot 158 grain 357's, clean my K-frame magnums and continue to be amazed by the few folks that proclaim these cracked focing cones to "be an issue".

Have forcing cones cracked on K-frame magnums? Sure, but I submit not with any frequency. If cracked forcing cones on K-frame magnums occured with any frequency I'd have seen it personally. Forty one years of shooting, being issued, purchasing, collecting and examining countless K-frame magnums at gunshows, police qualifications and matches has given me ample opportunity to see it with my own eyes. In all those forty one years I've only seen one in person. In 2008 I saw PanamaJacks 19-4 at the gunsmith shop we both used at the time.

If these K-frame magnum forcing cones cracked in the epedemic proportions that some here suggest, does anyone really believe that S&W would have continued to produce them? Side by side with the vaunted L-frame, for over twenty years? I think not.

SaxonPig mentioned somethin I've heard rumored for years. A batch of bad barrels. My understanding is that production of these "bad barrels" coincided with the first crush fitting of barrels by S&W in the 19-5. It took S&W some time to get crush fitting down pat. In fact I still come across evidence that they are still trying to get that right. I've come across more than one overtorqued barrel on a K-frame magnum over the years.

I notice that the majority of the few photos I see on the internet of broken forcing cones, are on model 19-5's. I also notice that said revolvers are filthy dirty. Lead build up visible. Neglected revolvers. Does lead build up combined with hot 125 grain useage do the forcing cones any good? I think not.

In the time I've been a member here, I only recall five threads concerning members having broken forcing cones. Three were model 19's. Two of those were purchased with broken forcing cones and the members were searching for barrels to replace them. one was a model 13. IIRC the OP related he knew the owner of that model 13 had fired thousands of "hot 357 only through it." The last was a model 66 which the member was kind enough to post a picture of, in response to yet another request from me to see a 66 with a cracked forcing cone. To date, it is the only one I've seen. I've asked plenty of times to see one over the years too.

If someone would be kind enough to link the "dozens of broken forcing cone" threads, I'd appreciate it.

In the meantime I'll continue to shoot my 24 K-frame magnums with 158 grain 357's and enjoy them for what they are. The finest revolvers to ever leave S&W's factory.

I may take my high time 19-4, the one with almost 15,000 rounds through it - around 3500 of those being 357's - and shoot some 125 grain 357 Golden Sabres through it - just to see what happens. Or maybe my ex Chicago PD 66-2 which has over 10,000 125 grain 357's through it from its former agency - plus another 5000+ 158 grain 357's from me. It has slight erosion in its forcing cone and is just starting to develope endshake. It should be a good candidate to fail - according to what I read on the internet.

Hey, fellas who are now nervous about your K-frame magnums, go out there and shoot them and stop worrying. Enjoy them! Clean them! And then pass them on to your grandkids. Based on what I SEE, thats the only way they will be able to know what a good revolver was.

YMMV, void where prohibited, if it lasts more than four hours - tell everyone! Regards 18DAI.

Its no myth. It is the reason that S&W discontinued K-framed magnum revolvers and released the newer L-frame. The forcing cone area of the barrel on K-frames is flatted off on the bottom so the cylinder and crane will clear the barrel. That is the weak area.
L-frames are large enough so that the barrel does not need to be flatted off. If you have a Model 19, take it easy on the high power max loads especially using 125g bullets. Go with heavier bullets, such as the 158g going 1200 fps or less.

andy05 - I don't see where anyone said its "a myth".

I wonder if you could explain to me why S&W continued to produce K-frame magnums, right alongside L-frame production lines for over twenty years after the L-frames introduction?

That was CONCURRENT PRODUCTION with the L-frame, for OVER TWENTY YEARS before the K-frame magnum was "discontinued". Regards 18DAI.

I don't see anyone saying it's a myth - nor do I see anyone saying it's a problem of "epidemic" proportions. This subject has been chewed to death and the same old tired hyperbole keeps getting drug out. The OP asked two questions - they were answered. Everything else is supposition and opinion, some just don't want to qualify their position as opinion.