I am new to this site and feeling my way. I finally figured out how to start a post, but I'm not sure I'm in the right place to do so. At any rate I recently bought a S&W 18 with a very nice set of after market grips which I would like to ID as to the maker. I thought they might be Guy Houge, but Patrick Hogue says for sure that they are not. Both panels have Del Rey stamped on the inside. They look to me to be out of the 1970s LAPD grip makers bunch but I can't find anything really like them except Hogues. Your thoughts please.


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Welcome to the Forum!!

I'm probably wrong,but I believe they may be "Fuzzy" Farrant's!! I've owned a few pair over the years & he is noted for building Grips with Exaggerated Palm Swells as these have. The only thing that's throwing me off is the Del Rey stamping. I don't remember the one's I owned having this stamping. I believe his shop was in Covina,Ca.,if I remember correctly,which is in LA County. You are right though,there were quite a few gripmakers in the Southern California area in the 70's so I'm probably wrong. There are quite a few members here from Ca. so I'm sure someone will be along shortly that knows for sure. Very Nice Grips in any case!!

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Masterpiece

I have had a couple of private e-mails asking for my thoughts on these grips{ my opinion and $2.00 will get you coffee in some places} and to be quite honest , I do not have an answer. The shape is very Guy Hoque, the palm swell and checkering remind me of Fuzzy's but the combination very much reminds me of early Bill Roger's. Most of what we see of his are done in synthetics but my understanding is that there are some early stocks done in wood. I am as puzzled by the "Del Rey" stamping as well. I guess this is what makes our hobby interesting. All my very best, Joe.

Whoever made them, they are a really excellent set of stocks. The palm swell and checkering are KOOL! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Thanks for the thoughts, I was just searching the forums for clues and stumbled on a thread that discussed LAPD's chief Davis's gun being shipped with a target hammer and standard trigger. The gun these grips is configured that way also. I thought it strange and probably an alteration but now I wonder if it came that way.

It is not unusual for revolvers that are shot double action in competition mostly to have target hammers, and standard triggers. The standard trigger is much easier to manipulate in double action, and the wide target hammer is easier to thumb back when needing to.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks, I picked the gun out because I like the target hammer, target trigger combo on my pre 17 but got the 18 to practice for deer hunting with my 19 which has a combat trigger. I am a poor shot DA but I immediately noticed the advantage of the combo for that purpose. I feel that the smooth combat trigger is preferable for hunting too. I can only wonder, given the grips, if it was used in competition and practice by a policeman who carried a 19.

I can't say for absolute sure; however, the pictured grips do not look like something John Hurst would craft. Also, I don't believe John would stamp "Del Ray" on the interior surfaces. Routinely, John would write the customer's name (often in yellow pencil) on the interior surface of one of the grip panels. Regards, Scott

Given the strong resemblance of my grips to those of the LAPD group the following thoughts come to mind. Could one of the LAPD grip makers have used the DEL REY stamp after retirement? Also I note that Walter Stark used a similar checkering pattern, leaving the area around the screw un-checkered in a circle pattern, as the fluer-de-lis on my grips. See: post # 20 at: Fuzzy Farrant and the 1955 Target.... Lastly, for what its worth , the escutcheons on my grips are identical to those used on Hurst's grips and other examples.

bvanwoert13,

If it helps,Two of the Five "Known" Pair's of Farrant Grips I've had in the past had the "Identical" Fluer'-de-Lis' Pattern around the Left Grip Screw as your's have,but the overall Checkering Pattern was a bit different & No "Del Ray" stamping. Both pair were for N-Frame Revolvers.

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Masterpiece

Thanks Masterpiece,
I think it does help in that it's one more clue of their probable LAPD origins.
I believe Farrant's shop was in Covina and not Delrey or Marina del rey, but I do not know where the others worked. That stamp suggests that the grips are probably not Farrant, or Hogue. I wonder if anyone know whether either Hurst or Stark work out of Marina del rey?

Those stocks are definitely not John's (Hurst) stocks, though the checkering pattern is similar. John worked out of his garage, close to the Academy (Elysian Park). John's later stocks were made in his Canyon Country home, where he moved to in retirement. It's really too bad John died recently; he could have ID'd those stocks easily.
Bob

bvanwoert13,

Hogue is the only Gripmaker in the bunch that I know of with a Marina Del Ray connection. If they're his they are quite a bit different than any of his I've seen in the past. I'm sticking with the "Fuzzy" Farrant connection.

Take Care!!

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Masterpiece

Masterpiece, I would disagree with you , They are unlike any of the Fuzzy Farrant stocks that I own or have owned. All of either K or N frame stocks have a different shape for sq. butt frames and a different checkering pattern from the ones in question. Joe.

Gentlemen , I bumped an old thread on Farrants to the top on the older Hand ejector catagory started by Giz.

Going only by the James D. Mason book, Combat Handgun Shooting (1976), early Hogue stocks were two piece, with several styles unlike current production, but ... Patrick ought to know.

I would have guessed Hurst, but ... OIF2 ought to know.

I do know that I like them!!

What was Hogue's Del Rey/Ray connection?

Tangentially - Mason lists a couple of grip makers I don't recognize. No pictures, either.
J.M. Evans, San Jose, CA and John W. Womack, Shrevemont, LA.

Funny that Mason features Hogue grips heavily but doesn't even mention Farrant or Hurst.

Great to see SG-688 post . He and I have been friends for many years and he is truly the guy to go to with your grip/stock questions now if we could only find a George Matthews modified M&P or a Colt Op or Police Positive.

I hope the OP won't mind if I try to hitch a ride on his thread with a question of my own. I have this "Brand C" revolver with some LAPD-style stocks mounted on a chamfered frame. I discussed these with Mike Priwer and a couple of other guys in a series of personal messages and emails, but a consensus never emerged about who is likely to have made them: I still favor Farrant because of the ebony plug in the screw pocket on the receiving side and the target profile that is seen in some of the Farrant advertising brochures -- very close match.

OIF2 told me recently he thinks they are Walter Stark's work. I can sort of see that because of the deeply set little finger groove.

The unusual thing about them is the lack of a wooden pad behind the knuckle of the revolver. These stocks permit the gun to display a completely exposed backstrap (which has been cross-hatched as part of the customizing of the gun).

The gun is a 1947 Official Police that has been gussied up with jeweled hammer and trigger and a low-profile rib sight with what appears to be a drift-adjustable rear blade (except that it doesn't want to drift with the fairly gentle tapping I have given it so far).

















As you can see, these stocks are not a perfect fit for this revolver, which leads me to think they migrated in from some other gun for which they were tailor made.

This photo of the LAPD shooting team has appeared in other threads. That's Fuzzy Farrant on the far left and Walter Stark on the far right. The guy in the black hat is Basil Starkey.



Note what Starkey is shooting: Looks like a Colt OP with a low-profile rib sight.



I don't claim that the gun in the photo is the one I now own, but it would sure be cool if I could determine that it is. In any event, the stocks on my gun are not on the gun Starkey is holding; his revolver has stocks with shiny medallions.

If anybody has any further thoughts on these stocks, please post them. And I'd love to hear any thoughts on that rib sight as well. I have never seen another one like that, apart from the one that seems to be on Starkey's gun in the photo. The King super target rib sight had a much higher profile and was ventilated as well.

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David Wilson

Wow! this is getting exciting. Thank you all. Its beginning to look like I'll never know for certain who made the grips in question, but I have some new stuff to offer. Thanks to the awesome WWW I made contact with Bill Rogers and he says that he did not make them. He thought early Guy Hogue. I also contacted Tom Jones at the LAPD academy revolver club. He sent me the following:
Brad I sent this out to the captain of our shooting team and he says unequivocally Hurst.
I contacted Steve Estrada, ,shooting team captain, and about the DEL REY stamp and he replied: I'm thinking.....Model type......Ive asked around, nobody knows. J. Pride says the same.
I had been thinking it was an address but a model/ style makes sense.

Also, as I see, it the fact that Hurst did not mount the right escutcheon in a plug as Farrent did, Hurst's are mounted directly into a hole drilled part way into the inside of the right grip panel, also supports them being Hurst.

I haven't posted anything her for a while so I thought I would stir up the mud a little. I can attest to the provenance of these three sets of grips as I personally purchased them at the LAPRAC store. I don't know anything about the "Del Rey" connection, but their near twin I purchased and they are stamped Hogue.

Ink stamped "Hogue Custom/PO Box 1001/Cambria CA"







Left is by John Hurst, Right by Hogue





Left Hurst, Center Hogue, Right Hogue

Joe way oversells me. 10-22 on all that.

The old articles by Walter Rickell, who seemed to know all these guys, are a prime source for me. Anybody know anything about him?

I'm the guy in the email exchange who guessed these to be by Joe Blackford, based on this blurb from the 1970 G&A Annual.



I recently saw a similar pair on another site.

--- An addition for posterity: Similar grips - finger grooves, same checkering pattern, same upper profile - are shown in the R.L. Wilson Colt Book of Colt Firearms on the personal Official Police revolver of Al Goodwin. Sadly, the maker is not named.

GREAT post.

This is one of the styles of early Hogue shown in the Mason book.

My probable Hurst grips were also for a Trooper MKIII.

Just saw a similar pair for a MKIII on eBay.

Thank you. Some of my correspondence on this topic was located on a laptop that had a bad deluge experience, and I couldn't remember everybody's name. I agree that the groove profile and checking field boundaries look very similar when you compare the stocks on my gun and Chow's.

Do we know if Blackford was one of the LAPD grip makers, or did he just use their basic concepts without the benefit of regular interaction with them?

And even though this is off to the side of the main stock discussion here, if anyone can tell me anything about that semi-adjustable rib sight that was added to my Colt, I'd very much appreciate it.

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David Wilson

Walter Rickell in the January, 1986 Guns magazine, in an article about a 1954 mfg. Colt Officers Model Special:

"What really makes this a piece of history is that everyone in the match that day (3-21-54) signed signed [the target] —notable shooters like John Hurst and Fuzzy Farrant, from LAPD and premier handgun grip makers;... and Walter Stark and Joe Blackford, who both taught Hurst and Farrant the art of custom handgun stocks and started the whole business of finger grooves."

bvanwoert13, if you haven't seen it, here is OIF2's Hurst thread.

Stocks by Hurst

Thank you. I had, but seeing it again makes me even more interested in your pic of the Hogue grips with out the characteristic islands. They are quite similar to mine. I'm less convinced tonight than I was yesterday that my grips were by Hurst.

After staring at the Chow Python and the grips in another thread that SG-688 pointed out to me in a PM, I am pretty sure the stocks on my Colt must be the work of Joe Blackford. I believe Mike Priwer was nudging me in this direction too, if I correctly recall our prior conversation.

Blackford seems to be a kind of stealth grip maker when measured against the reputations of Hogue, Farrant and others; he and Stark are characterized as teachers of the other LAPD grip makers. If I can raise any more information about him I will post it.

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David Wilson

My .02 on the grips that started this thread.
Definitely not Farrant.
Older Hurst? I don't think so. I've got five or six pairs and all have very different shape to the butt, flat and not rounded.
What these remind me of are the Rogers synthetic grips. Could these be the original inspiration for those?

Truly a very interesting thread. Also good private exchanges from new friends. A great deal of "new" knowledge coming into play. Truly a benefit of the Forum! Thanks, and all my best, Joe.

First my thanks to Joe Kent for his kind words about this thread. It has certainly been a fun, educational ride for me. Although the issue of who made my grips is still somewhat unresolved I have come to a conclusion based upon the evidence which I am quite comfortable with. While there are clear reasons for attributing them to Hurst and Farrant I believe, as I originally thought, that they were made by Guy Hogue. My reasons are as follows.
1) The upper part of both panels closely resembles current Hogue production grips as does the double palm swell, the curved bottom edge and the slight flair at the bottom. See: K or L Rd. Conver. Pau Ferro Checkered [19303] - $94.95 : Hogue Inc., The Best Value In Handgun Grips, Rifle Stocks and Accessories - Bar None! 2) While early Hogue grips had an "island" around the screw hole the pair belonging to Larry, post 20, do not and use identical escutcheons to the ones on my grips, including a deeply buried screw head. As Larry says in his post his proven Hogue grips are near twins to mine. 3) The group seems to have shared checkering patterns. For example the diamond around the escutcheon on Larry's Hogue grip is common to Hurst grips. Further they all have examples of wrap around checkering and each sometimes ends the checkering just above the bottom edge of the panels and sometimes at the very bottom. 4) Lastly I am persuaded by denater's post,#30, in that all the pictured Hurst grips have flat bottoms.

I emailed Patrick Hogue after seeing Larry's post since one of his arguments against my grips being Hogue was the lack of "Islands", but he has not responded. Two emails was probably his limit. I wish his brother Aaron would look at them since he did the checkering on his father's grips and I believe he would remember those, but I don't think that will happen. The del rey stamp remains a total mystery but perhaps it is a later addition. Unless someone can shed more light on this mystery I guess it will remain hanging.
Thanks all, for a good ride.
Bard

Dragging this back from the past, but it seems to be a good reference thread. Hoping this is a worthwhile addition.

I talked to Patrick Hogue at the NRA convention in St. Louis. He remembered the Del Rey grip question and quoted Aaron as saying that he had NEVER checkered anything in this pattern.

[That still leaves the possibility of the checkering having been done later by someone other than the original maker.]

Patrick said that Mrs. Hogue did the checkering at first and then Aaron -- starting at age 10.

New information for an old thread.

A set of Del-Ray marked grips recently sold on ebay. Unfortunately for me, I didn't notice the auction until after it was over.

Pistol Grips Custom s w "K" Frame Square Butt Combat Style | eBay

Attached Images

	del-ray1.jpg (104.1 KB, 120 views)
	del-ray2.jpg (105.8 KB, 99 views)
	del-ray3.jpg (64.2 KB, 92 views)
	del-ray4.jpg (103.5 KB, 99 views)

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"I also cook."

Great catch.

Probably futile, but I sent a message to the seller asking for identifying information from the purported FBI agent original owner. Not holding my breath.

To my pleasant surprise, the seller responded. Unfortunately, he is unable to provide more information as the original owner is deceased.

There is a set of these right now on GB.