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  #51  
Old 05-18-2011, 04:46 PM
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This is all very interesting to me....

With apologies aforehand for going a bit OT - can anyone associated with LAPD, retired or active answer a question for me? Been wondering for years.....

I have seen, at different times, the LAPD uniform depicted WITHOUT any sort of shoulder patch. (think 'TJ Hooker' or some such nonsense...). And at other times have see a SINGLE shoulder patch with the central symbol of a symmetrical green cross, which seems pretty obscure....

If in fact, there is no shoulder patch, I find that quite odd. I know there are portions of the country where it's common to see an agency patch on one shoulder, and perhaps a US flag patch on the other.
In this part of the US, agency patches are usually seen on both shoulders.

Thanks for any informed insight ya'll can send my way.....
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:51 PM
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LAPD has no shoulder patches. The patch you're wondering about is for traffic units (only). The standard LAPD uniform is devoid of any shoulder insignia.
Bob
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:03 PM
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Thanks, Bob. And not to belabor a point - but that begs the question - why?

Every agency I can think of has an 'official' patch that is unique to that department. Some have some sort of relevant symbol, some just simple embroidered 'print' IDing the department.
Just seems a little strange.

Closest thing I can think similar to this is a friend who went to work for the state of Missouri. They don't have a actual badge, just a little nickel-sized pin.
Thanks again.
L.C.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:10 PM
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LAPD has always been "proud" that our uniform was patch-less...of course, we always had that huge badge, which doubled as a weapon in a pinch. I can remember coppers from other agencies (mostly back-east) who always asked for an LAPD "patch"...we always gave them the traffic patch, with the cross on it, because that's the only patch we had. I like it that our uniform, unlike most others, didn't have anything on it besides stripes (if you were lucky enough to get promoted). We even won the best cop uniform contest one year (before the King caper made us unpopular) and it was mentioned that our uniform had a clean, uncluttered look without a patch.
Bob

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Old 05-19-2011, 11:03 AM
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Back to the movie, if I may, after the fiasco of 'The Choirboys' (Joseph Wambaugh took out a half page ad in Variety, disavowing anything to do with the movie and apologized to his friends and the public), Wambaugh kept complete control over the filming of 'The Onion Field', production of the movie halted numerous times, due to lack of funds and Wambaugh mortgaged his house three or four times to acquire funds to continue filming, I think it says a lot about Wambaugh's ability to persuade the crew to stick with him and the actors seeing that this film was important to him, as well as being a very good project for an actor to be involved with.


I've also found the memories voiced by the members that are veterans of the LAPD very interesting.
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:00 PM
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Dragnet in 1953 rather than 1963, but maybe not much different.

The holster for the 6 inch is a Clark 999.
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  #57  
Old 05-20-2011, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corp View Post
This is all very interesting to me....

With apologies aforehand for going a bit OT - can anyone associated with LAPD, retired or active answer a question for me? Been wondering for years.....

I have seen, at different times, the LAPD uniform depicted WITHOUT any sort of shoulder patch. (think 'TJ Hooker' or some such nonsense...). And at other times have see a SINGLE shoulder patch with the central symbol of a symmetrical green cross, which seems pretty obscure....

If in fact, there is no shoulder patch, I find that quite odd. I know there are portions of the country where it's common to see an agency patch on one shoulder, and perhaps a US flag patch on the other.
In this part of the US, agency patches are usually seen on both shoulders.

Thanks for any informed insight ya'll can send my way.....
As OIF2 sated, the LAPD patch with the green cross on it is used only by those assigned to traffic enforcement and investigation. Traditionally the LAPD uniform was dark blue because it was viewed as being impressive. Patches had to be of contrasting colors to be seen. White is the most contrasting color and white with a green cross was used by officers assigned to investigate traffic collisions and to enforce traffic laws. As those officers were primarily working very near to moving traffic lanes they were in danger of being hit by motorists. The white patches with the green cross and the white hats they wore made them more visible and hopefully safer.

Officers assigned to patrol functions were considered to be safer in less visible uniforms and had no shoulder insignia until about 1970 when rank insignia was introduced, consisting of white chevrons.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:15 PM
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Also for the traffic patch ,there is a different patch for supervisors,I think the outer line around the border is different,Supv has a blue borderline. I know cause I bought my wife the wrong ones when she was a LT there once.REB
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:23 PM
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Yes, Ma'am!
Bob
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  #60  
Old 05-22-2011, 06:25 PM
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Here photos of both a regular 4"14 barrel and a LAPD cutdown.
I think Harry or Phil told me that a local company did the cut downs , milling for the front sights, precision drilling of the sight pin hole and reblue,if you look they did nice work. I dont remember what company or who did the work. Same with the model 10/64 Heavy barrels they were milled at the same place .
For those wondering Harry was an LAPD armorer for probably thirty years and Phil was a T/O when Harry went through the academy so 30 + probably for Phil. Both wonderful men ,great shots ,who tried to pass down their knowledge,but its hard to learn 60 + years of experience in 6-7 years.
I still remember looking for a lefthand screwdriver for an hour before Harry stopped me, well maybe it wasnt that bad ,but close. Bob
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  #61  
Old 05-22-2011, 07:24 PM
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hi guys , perhaps this is not the right place to ask this question , but with a large populace of the LAPD here , i thought I would inquire , [sorry, cannot spell , I have had many beers today ].
is there a way to adjust a clamshell holster ??
I have two k frame clamshel and the sixgun is loose ??
really could use a pizza , peppers & onoions .
many thanks, robbt
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  #62  
Old 05-23-2011, 01:32 PM
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They were fitted for specific 38's. So sometimes the foam worked loose. We used a little foam down along the barrel to tighten it up. Also Safety Speed made the best fitting ones, some of the others weren't as good.



Quote:
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Here photos of both a regular 4"14 barrel and a LAPD cutdown.
I think Harry or Phil told me that a local company did the cut downs , milling for the front sights, precision drilling of the sight pin hole and reblue,if you look they did nice work. I dont remember what company or who did the work. Same with the model 10/64 Heavy barrels they were milled at the same place . Bob

Why does Chesire and Perez start ringing bells....

Mike

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  #63  
Old 05-24-2011, 11:29 PM
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I worked full time at Cheshire & Perez in '78-79. Don't recall any such mods being done then, nor do I remember seeing any around the shop.

Alhambra PD had their K-38's cut down to 4" and the front patridge sights remounted by a local Alhambra gunsmith "Wayne" who had a shop in the shopping center at New and Valley in Alhambra in the late 70s/early 80s. My recollection is that these were shortened sometime in 1978. Workmanship was only so-so.

I was issued one of these as an Alhambra Reserve in late 1978, early 1979. Carried it in a left hand Safety Speed swivel clamshell that I still have. It shot really well and I hated to give it up when I went regular in 1980. They reissued me a Model 15 that I never carried.
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  #64  
Old 05-25-2011, 10:46 AM
Reloader Fred Reloader Fred is offline
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dnater,

Boy, Cheshire & Perez brings back memories! I made many trips to C&P between 1977 and 1979. We probably know each other. Kerry Freeman did the trigger on my PPC gun, duty Model 19 and my Model 57 that ended up as my duty gun when we got a Sheriff who was a "gun person", while we talked at his bench. Kerry hand picked my Model 57 from the Ventura PD turn-in guns and put a 6" barrel on it for me. His brother, Bill, worked there before he moved to Northern Idaho. What ever happened to Angie? She was a sweetheart and a pleasure to deal with. Danny Woo was Kerry's equal when it came to triggers, too. Jerry Perbaugh fixed the choke on my personal shotgun for me. I miss that place............

When I made Sergeant, Henry picked out a 2 1/2" Model 66 and sold to me at his price as congratulations for getting promoted. They were rare as hen's teeth at the time. I've also still got some of the Peters Blue Magic shotgun hulls that Chuck gave me from his trap shooting......... I also still have the Model 39-2 that Henry picked out for me from the Santa Barbara PD turn-ins that looked brand new.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but there were just too many good memories there.......

Fred
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:19 PM
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Writing about LAPD, how about LCPD?
What revolvers did T.J. Hooker and Officers use?
Despite being fictional, it did shadow similarities with LAPD...
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
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Writing about LAPD, how about LCPD?
What revolvers did T.J. Hooker and Officers use?
Despite being fictional, it did shadow similarities with LAPD...
Sorry, can't even think of LAPD, The Onion Field and then TJ Hooker. Makes me a bit ill.

Mike
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:44 PM
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Sorry, can't even think of LAPD, The Onion Field and then TJ Hooker. Makes me a bit ill.

Mike
+1000
Bob
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:39 PM
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+1000
Bob
Sorry Guys! Man, hating on "The Shat". It's not like I mentioned "Charlie's Angels"!

I was just adding an additional cop show that used revolvers.
Which there was not all that many...
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:29 AM
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Topic drift alert:

Danny Woo moved to Salt Lake City and worked as a gunsmith at a police shop called Professional Armaments and served as a reserve and firearms instructor for my department, the Salt Lake County Sheriffs Office, in the early 1990's. He did an awful lot of work gratis as we transitioned from revolvers to semiautomatics. He was a great guy as well as skilled pistolsmith.

Sadly he developed cancer and died in the mid 1990's, far too young.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Grasso View Post
They were fitted for specific 38's. So sometimes the foam worked loose. We used a little foam down along the barrel to tighten it up. Also Safety Speed made the best fitting ones, some of the others weren't as good.

Mike

I carried a model 66 in a Safety Speed clamshell in the early 80's. We would re-line our clamshells with thin black or navy neoprene from surplus wetsuits. Worked well and held the gun secure, and quiet.

-TS
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkman View Post
NA225

We didn't have hand held radios the first 7 years I was on the road. You knew the phone number to the places you normally checked out at and advised dispatch. When out on a call you took care of business or went back to the car to call for backup. Most of us actually didn't want walkies to start with, Sam Brown belt was already too heavy and crowded. Today the younger deputies wouldn't know what to do with out a hand held.

Hey I resemble that last part! Actually my father was a cop from 1970 - 1994. For at least his first ten years that was how he conducted business. Times change.
When I went through the academy, every morning when we stood at attention and raised the flag, the instructors conducted inspection. Rain, snow, sleet, it didn't matter (many a day, your index finger felt like it froze alongside the frame of your revolver, waiting for the instructor to get to you). They would check your notebook, whistle, handgun, then look at your ID to verify you had a DIME taped on the back should you need to make a phone call (from a pay phone) to the dispatcher. Walkies.....what was that.... Ahhh, the good ole days!
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corp View Post
Thanks, Bob. And not to belabor a point - but that begs the question - why?

Every agency I can think of has an 'official' patch that is unique to that department. Some have some sort of relevant symbol, some just simple embroidered 'print' IDing the department.
Just seems a little strange.

Closest thing I can think similar to this is a friend who went to work for the state of Missouri. They don't have a actual badge, just a little nickel-sized pin.
Thanks again.
L.C.

May mention that Kansas City, MO, Police Dept doesn't have shoulder patches on their Uniform shirt, only on their jackets. One reason is the cost factor and the other is that officers usually wash their shirts rather than having them laundered.

We often asked the higher ups why we didn't have shoulder patches on our uniform shirts, and simply stated it was too costly. Every other agency in the area had patches.
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUFF View Post
Topic drift alert:

Danny Woo moved to Salt Lake City and worked as a gunsmith at a police shop called Professional Armaments and served as a reserve and firearms instructor for my department, the Salt Lake County Sheriffs Office, in the early 1990's. He did an awful lot of work gratis as we transitioned from revolvers to semiautomatics. He was a great guy as well as skilled pistolsmith.

Sadly he developed cancer and died in the mid 1990's, far too young.
I'm truly sorry to hear that Danny passed away. He really was a great guy, and very, very talented gunsmith.

Fred
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
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When I went through the academy, every morning when we stood at attention and raised the flag, the instructors conducted inspection. Rain, snow, sleet, it didn't matter (many a day, your index finger felt like it froze alongside the frame of your revolver, waiting for the instructor to get to you). They would check your notebook, whistle, handgun, then look at your ID to verify you had a DIME taped on the back should you need to make a phone call (from a pay phone) to the dispatcher. Walkies.....what was that.... Ahhh, the good ole days!
I kept my dimes, later quarters, taped to the inside of my gunbelt...
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:41 AM
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I kept my dimes, later quarters, taped to the inside of my gunbelt...


Inflation.....what a killer of life!
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasSTEP View Post
I carried a model 66 in a Safety Speed clamshell in the early 80's. We would re-line our clamshells with thin black or navy neoprene from surplus wetsuits. Worked well and held the gun secure, and quiet.

-TS
+1 great idea

Mg
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:05 PM
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Coming in rather late on this, but, in re: the Ithaca shotguns, I bought a model 37 police special, that was marked "Los Angeles Police department" but was not a true LAPD gun as it had an 18" bbl rather than the actual 14" bbl that both LAPD, LASO, and NYPD used as duty guns. I bought this gun
at "F. Morton Pitt" in San Gabriel. Any of you LA area coppers remember that place?
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:01 PM
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LAPD Ithacas didn't have 14" barrels. Later on, older Ithacas were cut down to 14", refinished and a folding stock added for motor coppers (only). This was after the 870 Rem was adopted for regular patrol issue.
Bob
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:07 PM
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Eight pages of old home week. Outstanding to have you folks here. A few years ago I picked up a couple of Smiths from a dealer in Colorado. One was a 15-3 with Mershon grips and a pre 14 Target Masterpiece with Murad Pointers on it that I shoot to this day. The dealer told me that both guns belonged to a retired LAPD officer but he did not care to be identified. Whoever this officer was he was a serious shooter. The pre 14 is a real sweet shooter. I was able to attribute the 15-3 to the LAPD so I am sure that the dealer told me the truth. To bad I can't provide a name for you.
DW
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:22 PM
Curt Fesler Curt Fesler is offline
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I'm another veteran of the LAPD. I worked the same Division as Hettinger just before he was pensioned off. They had him working Detectives. He was visibly a broken man. I heard he was also an alcoholic. Of all places to retire, he moved to Bakersfield and started a gardening business.

I have my Dads (K-38, 6") that he had to purchase when he joined LAPD in 1950. When I came on in 1964 they issued both the 6" Smith and the 6" Colt Officers Model Match. I received the Colt. When they went to double action only revolvers in the 70s they picked up all the Colts and sold them because they didn't convert to the double action mode very well.
They would not give us the opportunity to buy them. A buddy of mine located his in New Mexico and bought it off the new owner. I wish I still had mine. When they picked up our Colts they issued the 4" S & W model 14 which I still have. The officers with the 6" pistols could keep them but had to have them converted to double action only. My Dads pistol has the "M" grips. So did my Colt. I wish I knew how to post a picture.
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:52 PM
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Speaking on no radios and having a dime taped to your ID. When I was a young guy , late 70's on a small dept in IA. I noticed dark heavy glass red lights on all the tallest building, especially the corned buildings.
I asked the Asst. Chief, 40+ on the job,about it one day. He laughed and said when he was a young officer,you walked the beat. When you saw a red light lit up,you went to the station,and took one of the two cars to handle a call too far to walk to. Now thats old school,sounds great. REB

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Old 06-19-2011, 10:31 AM
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Default Adam-12 and Police Story

They were two big influences in my career choice.We got portable radios in '87, two radios for a 24 man station. Ah the good old days. About two years ago I finaly got my Adam-12 gun, a 6in. M14-2. Luckily for me my Chief is a nice guy who indulges his dinosaur's whims and I get to carry it as my duty weapon. I'm not nostalgic enough to carry 158RNL though.
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CALREB View Post
Speaking on no radios and having a dime taped to your ID. When I was a young guy , late 70's on a small dept in IA. I noticed dark heavy glass red lights on all the tallest building, especially the corned buildings.
I asked the Asst. Chief, 50+ on the job,about it one day. He laughed and said when he was a young officer,you walked the beat. When you saw a red light lit up,you went to the station,and took one of the two cars to handle a call too far to walk to. Now thats old school,sounds great. REB
In my city we still have a few of those lights ontop of the older buildings. Until six years ago one of our retired officers worked part-time for the department taking care of the vehicles, building ect. He had retired from active duty in 95 after thirty-two years. He told me how they carried a pocket of dimes in his early years. When the light went red they walked to the nearest pay-phone and called dispatch. If the call was too far away they would also go to the station and get one of the two or three patrol cars.

Wow. Guess the citizenry just understood that there would be a delay in police response. Now if you don't get there within ten minutes of them calling they'll call dispatch complaining. Never mind that you might be on a higher priority call.

Times change.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:20 PM
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I'm not that old, but I remember my training officer stopping on Ventura Blvd to use one of the last remaining gamewells to call his girlfriend. He had his K38 6", with target hammer and narrow trigger, dangling from his right hip in a spit-shined clamshell. Definitely LAPD- classy.
Bob
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:18 AM
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We didn't have hand held radios the first 7 years I was on the road. You knew the phone number to the places you normally checked out at and advised dispatch. When out on a call you took care of business or went back to the car to call for backup. Most of us actually didn't want walkies to start with, Sam Brown belt was already too heavy and crowded. Today the younger deputies wouldn't know what to do with out a hand held.
When I joined our Dept. in 1972, we had 3 "beat" lights strung up on Broad St., as we had a walking beat patrol in the downtown area. If they needed you, they turned on the lights, which were red, and then you called in on one of the 3 phone boxes along Broad St. A year or so later we got the walkie talkies, which were rather large and came in a leather case with a strap that you slung over your shoulder, Sam Browne style. The 1st or 2nd day I had one while walking the beat, I saw a stolen car being driven in the downtown area and radioed in. We recovered the car and arrested the thief.

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Old 06-21-2011, 09:21 PM
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You can watch several seasons of Adam-12 (the original, as well as the awful sequels), Dragnet, Emergency, and other wonderful shows from the 60s-70s online for free at Hulu, no membership or sign-in required.

Adam-12 - Full Episodes and Clips streaming online - Hulu

Hulu - Search


I've watched them all, and they are great.

I have zero interest in modern TV. I can't even bear to watch the news anymore, all of D.C. being so dreadful, especially that clown in the White House, and all the people who's job it is to stop him, but don't.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:27 AM
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Some of you guys make me feel positively young!
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:32 PM
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This is a great thread and I salute everyone who posted on LAPD and served there. Did anyone ever sew handcuff keys in the back waist lining of their uniform pants?
A lot of us did it in the old days.I think the Onion Field incident among others was the catalyst for this practice.
There were a few of us who tried to always think ahead,but some of the older guys thought it was silly.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:10 PM
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Did anyone ever sew handcuff keys in the back waist lining of their uniform pants?
At one time Safariland (?) sold an oversize belt keeper that would hold a cuff key with an over sized head. I wore one of those for years.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:56 PM
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Wow...lots of old memories reading this thread..

When I first went on the job, we had 3 Regency portable radios in the station. 1 channel, huge mothers that weighed about 5 pounds. If you were told to take one of those on a assignment you felt really important!
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:26 PM
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Default Not guns but....

I remember my first AF duty station as an SP and we had these strange GE portables with a metal ferrel as the antenna connector.

Everyone would put the keys from the unit on the antenna when you were out of the vehicle but you learned quickly to not transmit that way as the key ring draped over your hand would give you a nasty RF burn.

S&W content: We had those M-15 combat masterpieces.

I'm still looking for one. Our later ones were parkerized and I've never seen one outside of the AF.

TG
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:01 PM
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I carried a Freedom arms .22 in a pouch inside my waist band above the fly on my pants. I figgered maybe I could use the ploy of having to take a leak and unzipping my fly to get the gun. Seems like folks are a little a squeamish about frisking right there.

I still have one of those hand cuff key belt keepers. I probably would have never done so if I hadn't read the Onionfield.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:21 PM
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Thanks to everyone for this thread. When I went to the Tennessee state police academy in 1990, my small town department (40k population) had only switched to Beretta 92s from Smiths 2 yrs before, so I never got experience revolver police work, However, our handheld radios only worked about half the time, so does that give me partial credit as a partial dinosaur??
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:28 PM
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A question for the old LAPD guys = Did they give you an option to use full power 357s in the model 19s I saw mentioned, or were you limited to using 38s in them?? Thanks, Bill
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:42 PM
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I've read a lot of threads and posts here over the years, but this one has to rate as one of the best by far!
My department, the Suffolk County PD is fifty years old, and has a history of its own, but nothing like that of the LAPD and the sort.
Keep the stories coming you dinosaurs!

As an aside, my first issued duty pistol was a Smith 64-3 in a Jordan Border Patrol holster with 158 +p SWCHP rounds and dump pouches. That was in the fall of '82 so I guess I qualify as a bit of a dinosaur myself- life is good...

And not to completely hijack this thread, God Bless the boys of the Onion Field- their sacrifice can never be forgotten. And if not for them, the use of the BUG may not have happened so soon and so swiftly.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:26 PM
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This is a wonderful thread that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:08 AM
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To further hijack this thread, in Dec. 1970, when I was issued the 4' model 14-2, my issue holster was the full flap type that completely covered the stocks. As you can imagine, it was nearly impossible to get to the gun when seated in the passenger's seat and hard enough to get to when standing up.

The second thing I did when I graduated was to replace that holster. The first thing was to buy a 2" model 10 for a bug. I did keep that flap holster and carried it on rainy nights.

I had a terrible time trying to find a comfortable way to carry the M-10. After giving up on the back pocket and ancle holsters I settled on inside the wasteband, cross draw, where it was quite well hid by the Sam Browne belt. It was easy for me to get to and difficult for anyone else to get a hand on. I later found a jacket with a gun pocket inside at the left breast (equivilent of a shoulder holster). This proved to be great for cold weather until the jacket wore out, about 15 years later.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:54 AM
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This has been a fascinating read. I've always admired the LAPD. Although my only exposure to LAPD has been on TV and films it always struck me as a very squared away department. I can't recall ever seeing a cop looking sloppy or a banged up patrol car (I am seeing it throught the heavily filtered lens of TV though). I'm also kind of envious of the gun culture that seems to exist there. The LAPD seems to be a much more para-military than my beloved NYPD claims to be.

While they are both the biggest PD on each coast, it always amazes me how different each department is. I once met an LAPD officer who was visiting New York. I was standing on a foot post and he came over to BS while his family was in a store. He wanted to take a picture with my car, which I didn't have because I was on a foot post. The guy couldn't believe I didn't have a car and had to walk around all day. The idea of a foot post blew his mind. Truly different worlds....
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:24 PM
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THANK YOU!!!!

I tried my DirectTV, and unless my "search-fu" absolutely sucks (quite possible) there are NO Adam 12 or Dragnet episodes currently showing!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nody View Post
You can watch several seasons of Adam-12 (the original, as well as the awful sequels), Dragnet, Emergency, and other wonderful shows from the 60s-70s online for free at Hulu, no membership or sign-in required.

Adam-12 - Full Episodes and Clips streaming online - Hulu

Hulu - Search


I've watched them all, and they are great.

I have zero interest in modern TV. I can't even bear to watch the news anymore, all of D.C. being so dreadful, especially that clown in the White House, and all the people who's job it is to stop him, but don't.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:58 AM
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The guy couldn't believe I didn't have a car and had to walk around all day. The idea of a foot post blew his mind. Truly different worlds....
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We had 1900 hrs. - 0300 hrs. D.T.A. foot patrols all spring and summer.Guys almost fought to get that assignment. I loved walking a foot beat on the bar circuit.
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