So what's the difference?

I have 2 10-5s & 66-2 & very much like them.
But I have very small hands.
So they're almost too big.

Is the L frame bigger?

(I have a 36 with Lady Smith style grips on it & absolutely LOVE the way it fits my hands)

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John 3:17
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The L frame has the same grip size and shape as the K frame. The difference is in the area where the barrel installs. In a K Frame, the barrel must have a flat cut on the bottom to provide clearance. This makes the support of the barrel somewhat weak. The L Frame is thicker in this area and this design change was made to better handle full time use of 357 ammunition.

If the grip is too large on the K/L frame, you might try the round butt frames. Some people like the feel of the round butt models as they are smaller than the square butt versions.

Hope this helps.

Steve

The L-Frame cylinder is a bit bigger too. That's how they were able to chamber 7 rounds of .357s in the M686 Plus, and make the really cool M696 .44 Spl on an L-Frame.
Jim

For me the only thing that feels the same between a K frame and L frame is the grip. The L frame overall is a bigger heavier revolver. Most L frames have a full underlug. This tends to make the revolver muzzle heavy. I have small hands too. I like my K frame revolvers better than my L frame 686. Too me they are more balanced and I can shoot one handed with my K frames. Because the L frame is heavier and has the full underlug I cannot shoot very well one handed. The L frame is just too heavy for me.
I use my 686 only for shooting 357 magnums. I shoot mostly 38 specials in my model 10,13, 19 and 66. I have one other revolver I shoot as well as my K frames. Its a Ruger Police Service Six. The frame is the same size as a K frame.
Hope this helps,
Howard

Here are a couple of pictures that may show the differences in frame sizes. The visual is most apparent when looking at the cylinder sizes...

Those are good pictures of the frame sizes. Here is two more comparing my model 66-4 4 inch and my 686-2 4 inch.
Thanks,
66-4 4 inch 357 K frame

686-2 4 inch 357 L frame

The major difference between the K and L frame is the diameter of the cylinder. On the K frame the cylinder is 1.45 inch in diameter, on the L frames it's 1.56 inch in diameter. Using a slighly larger diameter cylinder on the L frame allows the barrel to be mounted a bit farther from the axis of the cylinder. By doing this the flat to clear the gas ring on the K frame was eliminated. A secondary benefit is that it allows 7 rounds of 38/357 instead of 6. Now, one very minor quibble point is that this will result an a slightly higher bore axis, however since it's only 0.055 inch I don't think that it's enough that anyone would notice.

As for the grip to trigger relationship, they are identical between K and L frames, so you really won't notice and difference in size or reach to the trigger. As noted, the round butts permit the use of grips that I would consider just tiny, so shop around for a round butt early L frame or just purchase one of the newer guns which all use the round butt grip frame.

As for balance, I am NOT a fan of full underlugs. I think they are ugly and they do cause a muzzle heavy balance. It's one reason why I chose the 620 for my L frame 357, it came in a half lug profile that I consider much better looking.

The other reason is that the tensioned barrel used on the 620 results in what I believe may be the most accurate S&W ever produced. BTW, I've shot my 620 with a scope and am certain that it's capable of 1 inch groups at 100 yards, however I'm not a good enough shooter to do that, best I could do was 7/8 inch at 50 yards.

Now, if you aren't that interested in pinpoint accuracy, Lipsey's is currently listing a 686 Mountain Gun. It's a half lug profile with an old style tapered barrel and I would expect that it will balance as ideally as the older tapered barrel K frames such as the model 15 or 67. It's also listed at 32 ounces, which is darned near exactly what the 4 inch model 19 weighed in at. As for it's accuracy, I would expect it to be capable of 6-8 inches at 100 yards, which for a handgun really isn't too bad. Fact is if I could afford one right now, I'd have one on order.

Frankly, if S&W had the good sense the Lord gave a goose, they'd just add a dash number to the model 19 series and produce a model 19 on the L frame with that tapered barrel. They could also do the same in stainless and call in the model 66. Aint no Law that I know of that forbids using a change number to signify a shift to the improved L frame. IMO the L frame is in reality nothing more than an improved K frame, both feel nearly identical in terms of size and the only real failure in the L frames is that full underlug they tacked on almost every L frame offered.

Thank you for all the replies.
This is great information.

Nudder question:

Is there an L frame, round butt, 357 with fixed sights?
(especially with a 5 or 6" barrel)
I prefer the M10 to the M15 & the 65 to the 66.

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John 3:17
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Not in current production. The 581 and 681 were fixed sight 357 Magnums in the L frame but they weren't available with barrels longer than 4 inches and in the period they were produced the 4 inch guns would have the square butt grip frame.

Your best option would be to purchase a new 6 inch 686 and install a Cylinder and Slide fixed rear sight.

FWIW: the M65-8 is a fixed sight k-frame and it's barrel forcing cone isn't flattened to accommodate the cylinder bushing . Earlier M65 models with threaded barrels have forcing cones that are flattened at the 6:00 position. The 65-8's have the 2-piece barrel design and they appear to have a smaller forcing cone OD than the threaded barrel editions. I believe that a few M65-8 barrels got launched on some LEO guns. I'm not sure if the 2-piece barrel design is still in production on the M65's. Heck, I'm not even sure if they're still making M65's; they're not listed in S&W's 2011 catalog. -S2

AFAIK the 65 is not in production any more.
That's a shame, because I really like the fixed sighted models.

Although, I guess it really doesn't matter, because when I have the cash to by a 65,
I won't buy one that has that blankety, blank, blank, infernal lock.

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John 3:17
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Here's a couple of photos to show the difference in the M65-8 forcing cone:

M65-8 on below, m65-5 above:



M65-5 forcing cone:


M65-8 forcing cone:


Another reason why I prefer the M65-5:

(the serrated back strap)

Great pics - this has been a very informative thread.
Thanks to all for your input!

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John 3:17
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Having carried both 64/65 an 686/681 I prefer the non-lugged barrel, never cared for the extra weight out front. Then again K-frames just seem to fit perfect for me.

Some folks think the stock K frame trigger is a little smoother, probably due to it having a smaller and lighter cylinder to turn.

If you shoot primarily .38's, the K-frame will fill the bill just fine. If you want to shoot a lot of .357, an L-frame is a better choice. If you want a ligher carry gun in .357, there's plenty of them in the J-frame lineup.

IIRC the 65's were dropped in 1999 or so. I always wondered why S&W would come out with the .357 J-frame, but not bring back the K-frame .357. If the 2" and 3" 65 were brought back Smith would sell a ton of them.

IMO with today's advancements in .38+P ammo, you aren't giving up a whole lot with a 64 over a 65. S&W and Bill Jordan always intended the K-frame .357's to be used with .38's for training and .357's for carry. With defensive ammo like Hornady Critical Defense and TAP, Speer Gold Dot or Rem Golden Saber .38 +P or even the hard to find +P+ loadings, a .38 Special is totally capable of doing the job.

The recent thread on 10/13/19 Model10/13/19 re-created my need to remember why the L-frame was produced.

"Good" old threads never die, folks!

I bought a 4" 681 357 (L frame) and a 4' 617 22lr (K frame) to practice with. with identical grips they are hard to tell apart and both fit in the same holster. imo also it's all in the grips, and a Ladysmith might be just the ticket for you. I sure wouldn't want to get shot with a pink handled Fem gun.