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Old 06-22-2011, 10:39 AM
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Default Honorably retired....



I seem to be developing a perverse taste for former law enforcement agency guns. Pictured above is my latest of these, a 2" Model 10-5 c.1965 that is marked "MOHAVE S O 412" on the left side of the topstrap. Mohave County takes up the entirety of the northwest corner of Arizona, with Kingman being the county seat. I'd suspect this was a detective's or other plainclothes deputy sheriff's piece. I'd actually seen another just like this in a gun/pawn shop some time back. This example had been languishing in a different gun/pawn shop for over a year until they accepted my offer earlier this week.

One advantage to collecting handguns like this is that you can really lower the bar for condition without affecting the appeal too much. They generally have "character" so to speak. You might think that peace officers would take good care of their sidearms, even if they were just agency issue, but in fact, besides the inevitable holster wear and stock dings, You will see some of these displaying signs of neglect and very hard use, maybe even crossing over into abuse. For instance, there's really no excuse for rust on a law enforcement gun, but you see it all too often. Mine here has a few obvious corrosion caused spots on the sideplate. The lamentable tendency of many peace officers to never wipe down their weapons led to a good many agencies favoring stainless models when they became available, or even nickeled guns (the Detroit Police Department notably being one of these). You also on occasion see evidence of a gun having been dropped or suffering other impact damage.

The big switchover to selfloading pistols in the 1970's and 80's shoved a lot of suddenly obsolescent revolvers, mostly S&W's, onto the open market. On occasion, these might have even been new and unissued, just superceded, but generally as I have said, they will have been carried (a lot) and used (some, primarily in periodic qualifying at the range). Even issued guns may not always be entirely original. Department armorers had no scruples about substituting parts that were more practical, or making repairs that were servicable above all else. Cops themselves also modified guns to suit their preferences, even if such was unauthorized. In particular, it's not at all unusual to find stocks that are mismatched to the gun, or are of the aftermarket oversized rubber variety (in either case, of course, the originals are lost to history). I remember about 25 years ago a large group of 4" Model 10's that were unmarked but purported to be Boston P.D. surplus of which many had been fitted with genuine S&W target stocks, but that's certainly not the norm. So in the case of my Mohave S.O. revolver, I was pleased to find that the stocks were matching, albeit very dull and dry. I have since lightly oiled them for the sake of preserving them, not to mention also restoring their appearance.

Enough of my blather. What do you have in a former law enforcement revolver to share with the rest of us?

Last edited by Goony; 06-23-2011 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:59 AM
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Many cops (and in big cities maybe none) are not "into" guns. The sidearm is just a tool... to be neglected and abused. Ever seen a police car? They don't baby them, either.

I have a couple former police S&Ws.


Utah Highway Patrol (factory inscribed).




A German PD (roughly stamped).




One was carried by a Los Angeles cop and the other by an officer in NYC.




Went to a police supply shop in Texas but unstamped so no idea who used it.




Purchased as surplus from the Carbon Co. Utah S.O. They carried 4" M19s so no idea how this wound up in their inventory.




Dealer sold a lot of 58s that were said to be police trade-ins but no info on who or where.




Stamped for the Corpus Christie PD.




Shipped to the Campus PD, Univ. of Louisiana.




Federal agent's gun.




A pre-war Heavy Duty used by the Ft. Smith, AR PD.


Last edited by SaxonPig; 06-22-2011 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:09 AM
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http://www.fototime.com/395BE681AFDDE78/standard.jpg

Am I mistaken or is the 64-2 stamped CDC? I am considering one at the LGS and wondering if $390 OTD is too high.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:19 PM
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This near mint 10-9, manufactured in 1988, is not very old but is special to me. Notice the unusual rearward positioning of the lanyard lug.



The cylinder has been turned, but it is unlikely it has been fired, and was clearly never carried in a holster. It is marked as property of the Royal Hong Kong Police, one of quite a few which were released to a U.S. importer and sold here a few years ago. They turned up at guns shows for $150 - $180...quite a bargain even then.

The British formally passed the last final control of Hong Kong to the mainland Chinese in July 1997, not an especially good thing in my opinion, or that of most Chinese and foreigners living in Hong Kong. But history does not stand still, and the Chinese are highly motivated to keep H.K. the vital, bustling trade and finance center it had become during the British glory days. Hong Kong political freedoms are another issue, not yet fully shaken down.

I lived and worked in the Far East during the Vietnam War era. Shopping and vacationing trips to H.K. were a great escape valve, coming from places which were less fun. H.K. was and is such a sophisticated, cosmopolitan place, and even during the cold war era there was a great Chinese presence, as the supposedly ideologically pure communists were thriving in the thick of the banking and trade world, and loving it. These were the beginnings of the modern Chinese capitalism we see today.

Hong Kong had virtually no crime, because the RHKP ran a tight ship. These guns mostly sat in an arms vault, clean and well preserved. But I always remember the steel-eyed uniformed Chinese who escorted bank pickups and deliveries. They had holstered Smiths, but carried loaded, cocked, and levelled Sterling SMGs as they hauled cash bags to and from businesses and banks. (Still got some of those big silver Hong Kong dollar coins.)

No funny business was allowed. Ever. Ah, to have such security here. But HK was still a happy party town at night. You can have it both ways, if leadership functions as leadership.

So my ex-RHKP 10-9 brings back all this nostalgia when I get it out and wipe it down once a year or so. But it won't be fired. I agree with you Goony. It's fun to pick these up now and then, especially when it's something nobody else cares about.

One of these is pictured in Jim Supica's book.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:48 PM
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This Model 10-6 had Goodyear Pachys on it when I purchased it from a dealer who had obtained a ton of them from the Kansas City, Missouri PD. This one has some cosmetic wear and some scratches, but it locks up tight and doesn't show much use. I substituted the Smith Targets for the Pachys - those rubber duckies just offend my sense of esthetics.

John



P.S. 6/24/11: I'm informed by a member here who is a retired KCPD officer that the markings on my gun (seen below) indicate that it was a confiscated firearm. He's asked me if I want to find out more about it, and he would try to get the details. Of course I said yes!

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Old 06-22-2011, 01:08 PM
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Honorably retired? Perhaps that 2" 10-5 is entitled to a pension, and I'm sure it served honorably, but it certainly seems capable of a second career, if not more. Between folks who have NIB safe queens on the one hand, and honorably retired police guns on the other, I'm surprised the ammo companies are still in business. I got a 2" Model 15 brought in by the widow of a man who carried it with a Barami, and I've put a bit of holster wear on it, but it still serves, and shoots.

If you can't shoot it, it ain't a gun (and I believe that that is MA case law, FWIW).
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:59 PM
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Here are my two, both carried and shot extensively and both still going strong after a little bit of TLC.

Model 686 no-dash, I believe the CSP was the California State Police, but not certain on that. It was wearing an ill-fitting set of Pachmayr grips when I got it, so I had to give it some decent stocks to wear:

Honorably retired....-686targets-jpg

Michigan State Police model 10-6, manufactured in 1969. A very accurate revolver and lots of fun to shoot.

Honorably retired....-msp10-6-jpg

Honorably retired....-msp10_markings-jpg
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan View Post
Honorably retired? Perhaps that 2" 10-5 is entitled to a pension, and I'm sure it served honorably, but it certainly seems capable of a second career, if not more. Between folks who have NIB safe queens on the one hand, and honorably retired police guns on the other, I'm surprised the ammo companies are still in business. I got a 2" Model 15 brought in by the widow of a man who carried it with a Barami, and I've put a bit of holster wear on it, but it still serves, and shoots.

If you can't shoot it, it ain't a gun (and I believe that that is MA case law, FWIW).
Didn't mean to imply that it's retired as far as I'm concerned, just that its service in an official capacity has ended. I fully intend to give it some exercise.

Last edited by Goony; 06-22-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:58 PM
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Model 686 no-dash, I believe the CSP was the California State Police, but not certain on that. It was wearing an ill-fitting set of Pachmayr grips when I got it, so I had to give it some decent stocks to wear:

Attachment 47698
The California State Police was a relatively small organization whose function was to protect state facilities and elected officials. It was subsumed into the California Highway Patrol, the main state police agency, back in 1996.

I think your 686 could more likely be attributed to the Colorado State Patrol or the Connecticut State Police.

Last edited by Goony; 06-22-2011 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:26 PM
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My service weapons saw hard use but were not abused. Our agency had weekly inspections (sgts. inspected officers @ roll call) to ensure that department weapons were maintained, and they were looked at again 2 X year at the range. Shortcomings had to be explained.

I retired in '97 w/my Glock 23. It still shoots great and is inspected at the range during LEOSA retiree qualificaqtion.

Law enforcement guns that have been badly neglected tell me that management has taken a lax attitude in that particular agency.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:03 PM
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When I attended Smith & Wesson armorer's school in 1979 I roomed with a deputy from Mohave County, AZ. After he returned home he sent me this patch and belt buckle form his agency.

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Old 06-22-2011, 06:53 PM
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My Dad retired from the FBI in 1984. He carried this Model 10-5 he bought in '66 in New York City until he retired. Damage to the stocks and scratches on the cylinder were the results of a fight over this gun with a bank robber in Chattanooga TN....
I carry it now sometimes on duty...
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:59 PM
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This gun was shipped to Texas in 1981 but ended up as a duty gun in Vermont. Model 57 no dash.



This was an old NYPD gun that was a very early heavy barrel. Trying to buy this one back from the guy I sold it to.



While not a Smith, this Colt Official Police had a neat story. It was made in 1956 and when the patrolman retired he had this miniature inlay of his badge put into the right grip. This one went to another collector.

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Old 06-22-2011, 07:20 PM
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I currently am not a collector. However, I think honorably retired police revolvers are something that I could get into. I'm seeing a lot of good examples so far.

Last edited by CIsland; 06-22-2011 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:23 PM
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gorgiS&W- The 64 is stamped CCPD and a number (maybe 432 IIRC).
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:28 PM
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New York State Police issued Model 28-2. Marked NYSP on the frame under the cylinder window.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:33 PM
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This M&P was made in 1956, one of the last M&P before they rolled over to the numbering system and they became "the Model 10"

It's marked for East Cleveland PD, apparently this was a tough town back then and still is. It's been carried hard but still works fine.

I have other PD and security trade in S&W's, Colts and Rugers. Most are unmarked, many have been treated roughly.



A 581 with a set of N-frame Targets that have been altered to fit, and crudely cut for speedloaders. Maybe the LEO had a M28 before he was issued the 581 and fitted the stocks to the 581? It is true, some of these guns have had strange things done to them. Many LEO's aren't "gun people" but a lot that are sometimes had "action jobs" of varying skill levels done to their guns.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:47 PM
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This M&P was made in 1956, one of the last M&P before they rolled over to the numbering system and they became "the Model 10"

It's marked for East Cleveland PD, apparently this was a tough town back then and still is. It's been carried hard but still works fine.
What immediately strikes me about this gun is the round butt. I wonder if the ECPD ordered them all up that way for some reason, or, if the smaller grip signifies it was issued to a woman. If the latter is the case, in that era the lady who carried it was a trailblazer.

Obviously not the original stocks. Are those the ones with which it came to you, though? That would validate the remarks I made at the opening of this thread about how the stocks can be mismatched on former law enforcement guns.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:51 PM
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gorgiS&W- The 64 is stamped CCPD and a number (maybe 432 IIRC).
Thanks for the info.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:11 PM
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The California State Police was a relatively small organization whose function was to protect state facilities and elected officials. It was subsumed into the California Highway Patrol, the main state police agency, back in 1996.

I think your 686 could more likely be attributed to the Colorado State Patrol or the Connecticut State Police.
Hey Goony,
I thought it was Colorado when I first got it, but everything I have found indicates that they issued Colts (Pythons IIRC). California SP and CHP are the only state agencies (that start with "C") that I have definitely found to issue 686s in the time frame that this one was manufactured (I think 1982, but can't find my notes on it at the moment), but it is certainly possible that it could be from another state, such as Connecticut. The location and font of the Police markings matches that of the California Hwy Patrol, so that's another reason I lean towards California, but without a letter I won't know for sure and I don't feel like springing for a letter. Any concrete info would be appreciated just to satisfy my curiosity.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:18 PM
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Goony- the main thing that attracted me to the M&P was the round butt with the 5" barrel, I just thought it was neat looking. Those are the original stocks that were on it, I assume the diamond originals had long ago been beaten into firewood from being slammed against things in the holster. The grips look to be maybe 70's-80's, it's possible the gun was carried this long by the ECPD, but also a private owner may have put them on.





More shots of the ECPD M&P.

I have never seen another ECPD S&W, I also find it hard to believe this would be special order for a female officer. I'm guessing the Brass who ordered the Smiths in 1956 for the ECPD just liked round butt 5" S&W's,maybe since they had been using Smiths in this configuration in the past and just kept going with it.



I only have 1 ex-PD S&W, a 10-8 with worn but matching stocks. The rest of my "retired" S&W's had rubbers or some other woods on them when I got them. Chances are the original woods were replaced by the LEO or they quickly got beat up and replaced. I worked armed security for 3 years and the grips of the Glocks we carried got chewed up pretty quick, and that was polymer. I can only imagine woods on a daily carried holster gun get thrashed pretty quick.



Two 581's, I took off the altered N-frame grips from the one in the previous pic and put PC Magnas on it, as it came from the factory. The top one came from a gun shop in Alabama, via a GB purchase. The bottom one was purchased from a retired Memphis police officer who had moved to PA, who sold it to a guy here, and I bought it from him at a shooting range. Neither have any markings, I'm guessing they were private purchase. The rubbers on the bottom 581 went away, in favor of standard Magnas and a Pachmayr grip adapter. I can't take rubber grips on a blued gun.

Last edited by stantheman86; 06-22-2011 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:50 PM
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In the first several years of my LEO career most of us took the wood grips off and put Pachys or something more durable than wood back on. I've got a 3" 65 marked BRPD (Baton Rouge P.D.), A 5" nickel 10-5 marked Detroit P.D., and a 4" 58 marked SAPD. (San Antonio P.D.) I have several others that I know to be LE guns that aren't marked.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:19 PM
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I only have 1 ex-PD S&W, a 10-8 with worn but matching stocks.
A 4" heavy barrel again with a round butt? Too weird!

You didn't mention if this was tied to a particular agency.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:26 PM
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My service weapons saw hard use but were not abused. Our agency had weekly inspections (sgts. inspected officers @ roll call) to ensure that department weapons were maintained, and they were looked at again 2 X year at the range. Shortcomings had to be explained.

I retired in '97 w/my Glock 23. It still shoots great and is inspected at the range during LEOSA retiree qualificaqtion.

Law enforcement guns that have been badly neglected tell me that management has taken a lax attitude in that particular agency.

well stated...in my 30 year career i never saw any "neglected/abused guns" as a poster mentioned...they were well maintained...carried and used in all types of conditions daily but not abused....
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:51 PM
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I don't recall seeing abused guns either...I have seen USED guns, rained on, snowed on, soaking wet guns...I have seen guns banged on car doors, doorways, pavement, mud, grass and most anything else you can think of....but ABUSED....I don't think so...not in my experience....
I have seen dirty guns, but rarely a dirty gun that stays dirty....
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:51 PM
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well stated...in my 30 year career i never saw any "neglected/abused guns" as a poster mentioned...they were well maintained...carried and used in all types of conditions daily but not abused....
As for last law enforcement agency I worked for (18 years, before retiring), I can tell you that no one ever inspected duty weapons, other than the things having to work every four months for qualifying. You purchased your own duty sidearm (within certain parameters), so you would think that everyone would take good care of their property, eh? Well, I recall one instance where a supervisor showed up at the range and pulled his uniformed duty pistol out of the trunk where it had been riding around in a plastic bag since the last time he qualified. He got on the line, and got one shot off. Pulling the trigger again produced nothing (it was DAO). This is on account of the expended round being still in the chamber. The cause of the FTE - the gun wouldn't cycle because the slide was rusted solid to the frame!

Now, he was the glaring exception. Most maintained their guns. But it was up to them, as there was no department armorer.

I will stand by my statement that occasionally you see law enforcement agency issued sidearms in a condition that goes beyond normal wear and tear.

Last edited by Goony; 06-23-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:52 PM
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I've seen a few police trade-ins that were beat to death...
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:09 AM
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As for last law enforcement agency I worked for (18 years, before retiring), I can tell you that no one ever inspected duty weapons, other than the things having to work every four months for qualifying. You purchased your own duty sidearm (within certain parameters), so you would think that everyone would take good care of their property, eh? Well, I recall one instance where a supervisor showed up at the range and pulled his uniformed duty pistol out of the trunk where it had been riding around in a plastic bag since the last time he qualified. He got on the line, and got one shot off. Pulling the trigger again produced nothing (it was DAO). This is on account of the expended round being still in the chamber. The cause of the FTE - the gun wouldn't cycle because the slide was rusted solid to the frame!

Now, he was the glaring exception. Most maintained their guns. But it was up to them, as there was no department armorer.

I will stand by my statement that occasionally you see law enforcement agency issued sidearms in a condition goes beyond normal wear & tear.

dunno....perhaps you can enlighten me...whats "normal wear and tear"on a sidearm thats carried daily for 15-20 years?most readers of this forum do not carry this tool daily in all types of conditions but rather pull one out for a trip to the range on occasion clean it and back in the safe...the weapons carried by the military in a desert region look terrible in no time...and for good reason...nonetheless they function fine...its a tool within this context and not a coveted collectable...is it possible for you to find a leo issued firearm in a condition that YOU find "beyond normal"? sounds like you already have...whats your point?others here including me with a LOT of years in the system have not seen an abused gun...again..whats your point?
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:15 AM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
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Ironically the older 4" Heavy Barrel Round Butt 10's are a little harder to find, but all the M10's from the 10-11 on up are all HB RB's

The 10-8 in the pic was made in 1980, was probably an ex-LEO gun but may have been a security gun. The seller didn't know where it came from.

In my experience security guns get beat up a lot worse than LEO guns. Like was said above, most times issue guns were inspected and most private purchase guns were maintained by the LEO. Even issue LEO guns were carried by one, maybe two or three officers during their service lives. Security guns are carried by several dozens of people, sometimes several different people in one day, and are treated with little more regard than a flashlight by the people carrying them. There is no incentive to care about a gun that is never inspected, doesn't belong to you,is rarely if ever fired, and chances are in a year you won't be working there anyway.

When I was a rent-a-cop we actually fired our Glock 22's 4 times a year, and were required to clean them before we could leave the range area. But I worked for Wackenhut, which is a multi-billion dollar corporation that paid well and was hard to get into.....so abusing weapons was not good for one's employment status....... The $8 an hour armed guards at Jelly Donut Security LLC who employ 40 people, with a revolving door employee retention, probably aren't as stringent with weapons maintenance or qualifications.
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyb View Post
dunno....perhaps you can enlighten me...whats "normal wear and tear"on a sidearm thats carried daily for 15-20 years?most readers of this forum do not carry this tool daily in all types of conditions but rather pull one out for a trip to the range on occasion clean it and back in the safe...the weapons carried by the military in a desert region look terrible in no time...and for good reason...nonetheless they function fine...its a tool within this context and not a coveted collectable...is it possible for you to find a leo issued firearm in a condition that YOU find "beyond normal"? sounds like you already have...whats your point?others here including me with a LOT of years in the system have not seen an abused gun...again..whats your point?
Both you and sheriffoconee make a good point. Unavoidable in-service damage is in its effect upon the gun likely to be indistinguishable from careless carry. But, you're right, I guess I really don't have a good point to make here, so I'll shut up.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:53 AM
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Well, it's LE service may have ended but I can assure you my new to me M66 is most definitely NOT retired.

After some practice at the range it will most likely replace my 6" M28 as the bedside gun. I'll keep the N frame handy tho, in case I run out of ammo & need a club.

New to me M66... mit range report
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:40 AM
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I can still vividly recall a couple of model 10s from the Traffic Division of a major city department. They spent several days in a bucket of kerosene before it was possible to open the cylinders and drive the rounds out of the chambers.

What was amazing to me, was that these were personally owned weapons. They did apparently get wiped down on the outside on a regular basis, but weren't cleaned.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:32 AM
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In 1937 the Arkansas State Rangers changed their title to the Arkansas State Police and their strength
was raised from 13 to 50 officers. They also ordered 50 38 -44 Heavy Dutys with 5 inch barrels and lanyard rings.

That began a 35 year partnership with the HDs. Post war versions were 4 inch with out the lanyard and like their predecessors were factory roll marked on the backstrap, Arkansas State Police.

They frequently went through the dept. bluing tank. After their service with ASP they went to the Arkansas Highway Police (Highway Dept).

This is an mid 50s version resting on a fairly new history book about the agency, "The Big Hat Law" by Michael Lindsey.

I love to plink with this old war horse, it is a great shooter.




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Old 06-23-2011, 07:00 AM
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Default RHKP Model 10's

Those of us that visited Hong Kong while in the military will remember the black lanyards used by the RHKPD. When my Destroyer was assigned station ship in HK, I was detailed to the Shore Patrol Unit at Fenwick Pier and saw a lot of the Hong Hong officers in the Wanchi District. I left the Navy, and became a police officer and attended the FBI National Academy, A member of my section was an Inspector with the RHKPD. When I had the opportunity to by the M-10 RHKP revolver, I jumped on it. I wrote the Inspector a letter asking for a lanyard. I was pleased to learn that he was still working and had been promoted and assigned to the Northern Territory. He sent me a replica RHKPD badge and a lanyard for a PD cap and a shoulder patch. Ahh, the memories.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:50 AM
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For a real collectable try getting a K-38 with a FIVE inch barrel. Very few made. This was a special order for Missouri Highway Patrol back in late 60's or early 70's....A few members here are a lot more knowledgeable about this revolvers than I am. I remember shooting against some of their members in PPC matches. the 6" was not allowed subsequently we basically had to shoot 4' revolvers. The Highway Patrol could shoot the 5" as it was not banned as it was a issued weapon... At the time the late Roy Bergman was their top shot, and was unbeatable. I doubt that the extra inch made any difference with him as he was a machine even up until his untimely death. Long retired he traveled for the NRA as their rep for Police matches...A great revolver, and a greater shooter and guy all around....
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:52 AM
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Can't find my camera. Anyone got a thought on a 15-3 snubby dated to 1975 with a factory rollmark on the left side of the frame. BPD 2011. Gun and grips are 90-95%. I got it from a guy from Buda TX, but in 1975 Buda was a greasy spot in the road. With the high rack or badge number I think it had to come from a large Dept.
Will S&W CS tell me anything without a fee?
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:00 PM
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This 28 is marked S.F.P.D.
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:49 PM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
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As far as normal wear and tear for military weapons........the M4 I carried for a year in Iraq and then used for another year in garrison training looked like a train wreck by the time I turned it in for the last time

Collector's of ex-duty guns must keep in mind these were tools, not barbeque guns or Sunday afternoon range shooters

Don't want to offend anyone with my Rugers, but these are some of the best examples of ex-duty guns showing hard use that I have



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Old 06-24-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george minze View Post
For a real collectable try getting a K-38 with a FIVE inch barrel. Very few made. This was a special order for Missouri Highway Patrol back in late 60's or early 70's....A few members here are a lot more knowledgeable about this revolvers than I am. I remember shooting against some of their members in PPC matches. the 6" was not allowed subsequently we basically had to shoot 4' revolvers. The Highway Patrol could shoot the 5" as it was not banned as it was a issued weapon... At the time the late Roy Bergman was their top shot, and was unbeatable. I doubt that the extra inch made any difference with him as he was a machine even up until his untimely death. Long retired he traveled for the NRA as their rep for Police matches...A great revolver, and a greater shooter and guy all around....
This brings back memories..... Roy taught the NRA Police Firearms Instructor Course when I attended the MSHP Academy back in 73 I believe. Quite a gentleman and fierce competitor when I shot against him in the Missouri Police Olympics. He was always willing to help someone who wanted to learn.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:33 PM
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the NRA Police Firearms Instructor course with the great Roy Bergman teaching.Arkansas Law Enforcement Training Academy,1979 I think.

Saw with sadness that he passed away not too long ago.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:52 PM
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I know it's a Colt, but this is my 1935 Official Police marked U. S. Customs and an issue number on the butt. I love this old gun.
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:10 AM
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I like Washington State Patrol marked guns I have a S&W 28 a 66 a Beretta 92 a set of consecutive numbered WInchester model 12s and a 38/44 it has the marking removed. Here is the 66.



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Old 06-26-2011, 11:55 AM
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When I was on a big city police department, the department ordered the guns from S&W, but we had to buy them. They were ours. They were never marked as police guns, and I imagine there are a lot out there like that, especially the older guns. My Dad's S&W Fourth Change was a private purchase also, but he was in a small town department.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:31 PM
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I know a lot of collectors don't like the Pachmayr grips that many police revolvers are found with but they are a part of the history of the service revolver. When I first became a civilian police officer after having been a military policeman, the duty revolver for Patrolman was a 6 inch S&W Model 686. Detectives had a choice between a 4 inch or 2 1/2 inch Model 66. We issued Winchester 145 grain Silvertip Magnum ammunition for duty and qualification. Those Pachmayr grips sure took the sting out of the magnum ammo when qualifying. We switched to 9mm semi's in 1989 and had a chance to buy our Magnums. Like an idiot, I did not buy "Big Silver". Like many of us, I wish I had. I still use Pachmayr Presentation grips on the revolvers I actually shoot.
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