what is the advantage or disadvantage of a pinned barrel? was there a certain year that they began or ended? curious about this in regard especially to the model 36. thanks.

Others will chime in soon. Pinned are more sought after, that's all I'm interested in, but I'm not prepared to say that makes them better. Simply a time when more craftsmanship went into the assembly of a fine firearm.

Pinned barrels were phased out around 1982, but as always with Smith's that is + and -. If they had more around they went longer...

Non-pinned barrels are held in place with either tight (interferance or 'crush') threads or over-torquing. Either way , something gets overstressed. Either the thin forcing cone area of the barrel or the frame. The threaded potion of the barrel has been known to constrict , effectively making that part of the bore slightly smaller , leading to poor accuracy , or cracked frames , especially in the yoke cut-out area of aluminum frames (bores 6 o'clock). With a pinned barrel , the threads can be made to mate properly and the pin prevents loosening.

thanks for the info. its what i was looking for.

I agree with Flint Ridge, all I'm interested in are Smith's with pinned barrels. But then again, I just prefer older items rather than the new models. When I picked up my Winchester '94, it had to be a pre 64. I happened to find one circa 1944 - it's in very nice shape and shoots great.

I believe the barrel of both are held in place via interference fit, tapered threads? They used to go to the trouble of putting a pin through the joint that took extra time and effort and no longer do. I don't think there is any real effect on accuracy. Has anybody had enough barrel off both to say weather they torque the non pinned barrels any more than the pinned barrels or is this just more ignorant internet BS?

Colt never used a pin to retain the barrel and never seems to have had much trouble with them. S&W, on the other hand, seems to have experienced a lot of problems with barrels since 1982 when the pin was eliminated. many reports of damaged, misaligned barrels and even some flying off during firing.

Generally the pinned barrel is symbolic of the time when craftsmen built guns. Now the accountants and the lawyers design them.

All my S&W revolvers except 2 are pinned barrel models and like Saxonpig stated a lot of us just believe that the revolvers with that feature were made during a time when S&W and all other gun companies put more care into their manufacturing processes. They also had a workforce of long term employees who took great pride in their work and it showed in the product they made. Then the gun companies went through a long period of changes and cost cutting programs that resulted in some decline in overall quality.

Both of my non pinned barrelled S&W revolvers were made right after the switch and neither has had an issue with the barrel. They are a Model 686 no dash and a Model 18-4.

thanks for all the info. it will help with my buying choice alot.

There was a recent thread with pics of some Airweight frames that were cracked in the yoke cut out , at the barrels 6 o'clock , the thinnest part.

The "pinned barrel" has a great deal to do with marketing a revolver even better than called for. No .22 Kit Gun, pinned or otherwise, has to my knowlege launched its barrel downrange. Just like the early (1961-1980) blue finish this feature shows that the revolver was designed 100%, best possible, then another 10% better just to show that it was a quality product. American cars were, at one time, engineered as well as possible than just a little better.

Today US consumers are price conscious so "just good enough to work" is good enough.

The S&W/Walther P22 auto pistol is an excellent example. It is in no way up to either S&W or Walther standards. It is the cheap Bic pen of pistols. It works. When it stops you get a new one.

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Jim

An old bird at the local range told me one time he wouldn't have one of them S&W's with a pinned barrel. "If they had to put a pin in the barrel to hold it on, it must not have been any good". I asked him if he knew about safety wiring screws and bolts in aircraft. He just looked at me.
I have one non-pinned S&W and it is a M-57. A little unique in the fact that it not a M-57-1, but has a non-pinned barrel

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Pat Henson

It should be noted that even "pinned" barrels are "crush fit" to an extent. The last 45-60 degrees of rotation of the barrel to bring the front sight up to the correct position is done after the barrel is snugged up tight to the frame. That is why you need frame wrenches, etc. to install & remove barrels. If anybody thinks that the barrel is just screwed into the frame hand tight and then the pin is driven home is quite mistaken!



Bruce

The need for a pinned barrel was eliminated in 1957, around when the soft fit department was phased out. The pin was continued until 1982 but that was only a "nod" to traditionalists and unnecessary from a construction stand point.

The same fit S&W uses for barrels has been used by the big rifle manufacturers for barrel to receiver fit for generations. As those barrels do not seem to go flying down range with any regularity I suspect it does work.

It seems to me an individual should buy what pleases them and if that includes a pinned barrel then that's what it should be. No need to make anyone happy but yourself.

Bob

I would think that those guns that fail, for what ever reason, has something to do with how many rounds they have sent downrange, and how many have been shooting "overloads" for a lengthy period of time. Just a thought. I have never had a problem with either S&W or Colt in this regard.

I think I have a greater chance of winning a Lotto than having one of my non-pinned Smith barrels fyling off during firing. I have a few non-pinned Smiths that are accurate beyond my expectations. Evidently the quality is not lacking for mass produced revolvers to shoot so well.

thanks to all for the inputs.

In my opinion a pinned barrel is a feature that is simply a collectors selling point. It probably makes no practical difference in the function of the gun. It's like the internal locks now, some people will put a premium on the value of a no-lock gun. So, you have to decide for yourself, is the gun worth more/less with/without said feature. You have to remember, to some these guns are rare collectors items, to others they are simply a tool. There is also a lot of hype about the "good ol' days" that is simply just that, hype. But, on the other hand some of the stories are true. The guns made today are probably the best S&Ws ever made as far as materials and quality control and accuracy. But, do the have the soul of the old guns? Only time will tell.

After reading all this I’m surprised it wasn’t said that it will also stop a barrel from unscrewing from the frame for any reason. I’m either wrong in that or it’s just an omission so far. I prefer to buy used guns that have the pin since they are from a period of better bluing, polishing, real S&W made stocks, and I have yet to see one with a barrel that is not centered unlike many if not most new S&W revolvers. It’s a very minor issue with handgun shooting distances but I don’t like the fact that my 640 barrel is just out of center, my 629 barrel is just out of center, and my 65 barrel is just out of center. That is three out of four of my newer revolvers that aren’t finished right. But they work still and look good doing what they do. I guess I should add that that forth gun is/was my 637. The original went in for a cracked frame from what I now have an educated guess of a barrel being set too tight into the frame which caused it to start to stress fracture. So now the new replacement looks perfect and it was fixed at no cost to me. Can’t complain about that, but the reality is it would be nicer to not have that worry in the back of my head that the same thing could happen all over again. I had some guys in an NDT lab tell me to go find some kind of dye that would show stress cracks that the human eye wouldn’t normally see. The finish would have to be removed in that area though. But then again, that is how I found them starting in the first one… Round and round I go… To be honest, I like the two part barrels better but I wish they could be bought with the old style cut lands and grooves for lead bullet friendly use. I even like the concept the new BG.38 uses where the barrel liner is just screwed into the barrel that is made as part of the frame. Make that in a bigger gun like an N frame and allow us a tool ala Dan Wesson to set our own barrel to cylinder gap and lock the barrel in place and I might not ever buy an old Smith again… OK, I’m lying like a dog on that one…

The newer Smiths seem to shoot good most of the time. But, the old ones SING to me.

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Southern by the Grace of God

The barrel pin is a nice feature to have (bragging rights and nostalgia mostly) although in reality and practical usage I have never had any issues on guns without pins. While most of my smiths do have the Pin, some do not and I do not really look at a gun without a pin as a deal breaker assuming all else is perfect.

Are there any pinned guns with the front sight canted off center?

All my S&W have a pin barrel . I won't buy the new pistols . I prefer the craftsmanship of the older pistols and the use of quality parts .
No lock and no MIM parts for me.

Besides my pistols are going up in value .

Oddly enough one of my best shooting 38's was a non pinned 2 " 15 I wish I still had. Replaced with a pre 15 that does not shoot as well

The advantage is that they command a relatively higher price when one sells. The disadvantage is that they command a relatively higher price when one buys. Other then that, in my highly biased opinion there is no practical difference.

I had a model 66 with a pinned barrel. It was a round butt 2.5 inch barrel that I could remove and replace with a four inch barrel because they were pinned. At the time, that was the only round butt four inch 66 around. I really prefer the round butt on my longer barreled S&W revolvers. Beautiful in appearance and feel.

I recall someone posting that Colt never pinned their barrels. FWIW

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You're shy a few manners.

I'm a high-mileage 1937 model. I hold to the doubtless irrational view that the older guns were built better and with more care, by real craftsmen, and therefore are superior.

I said it's irrational, okay? From all I read here, except for some canted barrels the new S&W revolvers are just fine. I still prefer the older ones, and that is almost certainly my advanced age and nostalgia talking.

I like the pinned barrel, quite apart from its actual usefulness. To me it's symbolic of greater care and precision, and pride in the production of a first-class gun.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Even though the carcass has rotted away some new members might benefit from watching this horse's petrified bones being whipped again. Since this 5 year old thread was about barrel pins we can leave barrels that fit inside a shroud for another day.

All one piece S&W revolver barrels are and always were installed the same way. No S&W revolver barrels have interference threads. Barrels are screwed in by hand until the barrel shoulder contacts the frame. The barrel shoulder is cut back in a lathe as needed to make the shoulder contact the frame an eighth to a tenth of a revolution before the barrel rib and sight are straight up. To avoid warping the frame gunsmith tools are used to turn the barrel in the last fraction of a revolution.

While a pin was used the barrels were made with a trough cut across the top of the barrel's threads for the pin. Those troughs were generous enough for random barrels to be fitted onto random frames and still allow the pins to freely pass through. Ordinarily the pins only contacted the frame, not the barrel. The pins could only stop gross rotation of a loose barrel. Some S&W revolver barrels can be rotated so far off that the front barrel latch will not engage yet their barrel pin will still pass through the trough.

The barrel pin was non-functional. However, barrel pins were, and apparently remain, a great marketing gimmick. Other wise, there are only two things to know about them. They help to date the age of revolvers and, if you do gunsmithing, you need to remember to drive them out before removing barrels and put them back in afterward.

Five years ago a member asked in this thread if any pinned barrels were canted. While they were pinned they installed slightly canted just as often as they are now. I bought my first S&W with a canted barrel during the mid 1970s. It had an adjustable sight. I moved the windage to compensate then it shot great for all the years I owned it. A revolver's carry up, lack of rotational play and end shake at lock up, cylinder throat diameters and trigger pull are all more important than a slight barrel cant.

Pre-cut slot for pin on a Model 27 barrel.

Note that the pin was about too far back and had uneven contact. Not unusual to see slots with no contact at all! I've had plenty of pinned barreled revolvers with barrels under and over turned.

What I do like about pinned barrels is something nobody ever comments on, because it's unseen on an assembled revolvers: the lack of a thread relief at the shoulder. S&W got a bit nuts when they added that feature when pins went away as the relief cut is much larger than needed. Makes it easier to assemble, but also can more easily distort the bore, sometimes to the point it puts a slight joggle in the rifling. Depends on what ham fisted lout is assembling barrels to frames!

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I like the pinned barrels, unpinned barrels, hand ejectors, but my all time favorites are those with S&W on them. :-)

This may be so but the barrel's were not re-installed properly. As I noted previously, when installing the barrel, the thread is timed so that the barrel when threaded into the frame hand tight is 45 to 60 degrees before top dead center. Hand tight means that the barrel cannot be further tightened without the use of proper tools. The frame is then turned the rest of the way to TDC using correct frame wrenches & barrel vice or correct factory tooling. This, for all intents and purposes, produces a "crush fit". The fact is that S&W revolver barrels have always been crush fit whether pinned or not. After removal, correct re-installation requires the barrel's shoulder to be set back, the barrel threaded in one additional turn in the manner previously outlined, the B/C gap reset and the forcing cone re-cut. Just threading a removed barrel back into the frame and tapping the pin back in may allow the gun to be fired but that does not constitute proper installation. Smith & Wesson revolvers are not switch barrel firearms such as Dan Wesson's are. Never have been-never will be.

If you are engaging in this substandard practice, watch yourself!

Bruce

Barrels flying down the range, eh? Let's see now, they would have to make about 15 turns (approx) before they came loose enough for flight.

Stu

You see, Smith & Wesson and Colt actually installs barrels that way (crush fit) because they needed to make the manufacturing process as expensive and their prices as non-competitive as possible. Besides, that 1/16" diameter could NEVER shear, right!! And how much force is that bullet carrying when slamming into the forcing cone multiple times. How likely is the shooter to notice the issue before the barrel does fly down range. Hell, many shooters don't even notice when a squib round is fired.

I personally feel that folks who engage in these "Bubba" type practices are fully vested candidates for the Darwin Award. What is it that Forrest Gump used to say about stupid?? That practice is stupid in at least five different ways stu1ritter! I really didn't want to characterize the practice in those terms but when challenged............

Then again, everybody needs to do what they feel is best for them.

Bruce

P.S. I feel strongly that all of those folks who feel just threading a barrel into the frame and driving home the pin is A-OK should engage in a write-in campaign informing S&W and Colt of how foolish, uneducated and misinformed they really are.

Thing is if the barrel isn't torqued up you would get poor accuracy pin or no pin. Barrels vibrate as the bullet and pressure move down the barrel. A barrel that wasn't torqued would move a lot more under the stresses than one that was torqued, pin or no pin.

I have removed some of each and the pinned barrels sure seem to be as tight as the unpinned ones. I have had a barrel that was loose and even with a good straight pin it would move an easy 5 degrees in either direction. The canted barrel thing has nothing to do with the pin and everything to do about craftsmanship and quality control. The pin maybe a mark of an era of craftsmanship, but then why are pinned model 25s infamous for large throats. Where was quality control and craftsmanship there?

I just bought a beautiful 25-5 with pinned barrel and .458 cylinder throats. Would have rather had .452 throats and no pin. I'll be reaming another model 29 cylinder to make it right. I got it at a great price so I don't mind.

The pin is like the top side plate screw, the rebound spring screw and recessed cylinders and for that mater the third lock. All are very interesting, but unnecessary to make a truly fine, dependable accurate revolver. I have some with all these features and some with none. If I had a choice between a 5 screw model 29 and a 3 screw with no pin or recessed one. both the same condition with the same price I would of course take the 5 screw, but, only because it has more value, not because I think it would shoot any better.

If a new gun has issues it isn't because it is missing these features or has MIM parts. It is because S&W has failed to keep or train and replace the key craftsmen in some critical assembly areas and the failure of the quality control department to inspect and reject poor examples and communicate those problems to the responsible parties. They still make some great guns, but this failure is tarnishing a great old companies reputation.

I got my M- 60 a couple of months ago and noticed a ridge or ring on the inside of the barrel right about where the forcing cone meets the barrel. It rings the whole inside of the barrel. Whats the deal? My 686 shows no ring like that. I want to call S&W but not sure if this is normal.