Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-13-2011, 08:43 PM
EricInAZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Model 36-1 Value?

A local dealer has this Model 36-1. It's a J frame, rounded butt wood grips, about 3" barrel, but it's not the typical chief's special I'm used to seeing - this one has the adjustable rear sights.

It locks up tight, has a crisp trigger & VG bore. Unfortunately, when someone reblued the barrel, they didn't leave it in the pot long enough & it's got that nasty plum/purple color to it. Also, an orange front sight insert was installed & looks like someone dremelled a light divot into one side of the sight blade. Light drag marks on the cylinder. Looks to have been carried after the botched blue job, & the wood medallion grips have wear thru the finish & down into bare wood.

The guy wants $375 for it & has a rep as a hard-a$$ on his pricing. In light of the fact that I'll need to put more $$ into it for a proper reblue + wood finish & maybe a new front sight (looks liker the insert was just glued into place & I'd expect it to shoot out in short order).

Is this a reasonable price? How common is the model 36-1 with adjustable sights?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-13-2011, 08:57 PM
Goony's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 236
Liked 410 Times in 173 Posts
Default

It sounds like a hacked up mess. Although I may be corrected on this, I'm not aware of any 36-1's that came out of the factory as "Chiefs Special Target" models. I think it's someone's botched project that wasn't treated too kindly afterwards.

I'd pass on it.
__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:22 PM
EricInAZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Although the front sight is buggered up some, the rear sight is either factory, or installed by a really proficient machinist.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:13 PM
EricInAZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I spoke to the the gun shop owner about this 36-1 & he told me that the rear sight, although a Smith & Wesson Part, was a not factory installation for this particular model. The grips are correct, but not original. I also question the wide hammer spur & blued hammer, since, as I recall the hammers should be just case colored.

The action locks up tight & my only other concern is the front sight, which a pin punch & replacement blade will fix.

Later today or sometime tomorrow, I'll drop it all off at a factory schooled Smith, for reblue.

It's the design I've always thought I wanted for a kit or trail revolver, although it will most likely spend most of the time punching paper.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-16-2011, 09:59 PM
EricInAZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Here It Is!

New finish on the grips, but the rest is as-bought.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	S&W Model 36-1.jpg
Views:	721
Size:	153.2 KB
ID:	51512  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:19 AM
5Wire's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portsmouth NH USA
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 609
Liked 432 Times in 180 Posts
Default

Heres a short track & Chart:

Smith & Wesson 36 1-7/8 in Bbl Revolver in .38 Spl. Bluebook of Gun Values (32nd Edition) indicates between $360 in 95% condition and $535 in 100% condition for this gun. I have 62 recorded prices for this model gun from $250 to $600 over a period of 3 Yrs 5 Mos ending May 16, 2011. The average price as of that date was $394. No refurbs, no refinishes, regular sights. All represented as 95% or better. No engineering revision, if any, no special editions, no distinctions for box, papers, tools. Current or last MSRP is $822.

Here's the Chart, three months and eight prices behind the data but you'll get the idea. The trendlines are for averages. The average price trend in may was about $440. I'm sure it's highe by now. Better examples of the model would command higher prices, especially with box, papers, etc

__________________
Bob
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:36 AM
SWCA Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 6,425
Commentaries: 3
Likes: 966
Liked 1,388 Times in 834 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goony View Post
It sounds like a hacked up mess. Although I may be corrected on this, I'm not aware of any 36-1's that came out of the factory as "Chiefs Special Target" models. I think it's someone's botched project that wasn't treated too kindly afterwards.

I'd pass on it.
There were 213 targets marked M36-1 made c. 1975 but supposedly had sq butts.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:51 AM
SWCA Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 6,425
Commentaries: 3
Likes: 966
Liked 1,388 Times in 834 Posts
Default

That really is a jewel!! Wow. You stole it for that price! I personally would not reblue the entire gun, just the barrel. The front sight is easy to fix as you said.
I like it and would buy two at that price.

It looks like nice enough work (once you reblue the barrel) to have a factory appearance. Is the barrel rib grooved? That would be the indicator of a non-factory sight installation. But if it's not factory so what! There's no way you could supply a gun and have the work done for anwhere near that price.

You got a great shooter and for a song.

Must be a J series serial number. But still has a pinned barrel so pre 1982. The factory combat grips are cool. You did a nice job on those.

That's a COOL custom made wide target hammer and longer than factory as well; probably a K or N frame target hammer spur welded on. I'd strip the blue off with rust remover. A real light coat of cold blue, quickly applied and wiped off will give it a worn case color look.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 08-17-2011 at 02:56 AM. Reason: Added text.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-17-2011, 03:40 PM
EricInAZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Great stats, 5wire & Hondo, thanks for the follow-up, especially about the hammer.

I took this in to an old Smith armorer & he thought the rear sight was a factory install. He also commented on the wide hammer spur.

Do you favor Naval Jelly over Birchwood Casey Blue remover for the hammer? I've never used either before.

I'll hold off a while on the factiry reblue, since I want to shoot it some first.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-17-2011, 04:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 250
Liked 286 Times in 204 Posts
Default

In 1977 after giving up trying to find a gunsmith that would do the job, I installed an adjustable rear sight on a square butt 2" model 36 using only small files, a drill and a tap. The sight was long enough to cover up the bottom of the trough I filed in the top strap so it looked exactly like a factory installation. The job is easier than you might think because J frame adjustable sights don't have the square elevation nut that slips into a slot in the frame. For what its worth, maybe significantly less than a full 2 cents, considering the rarity of adjustable sighted 36s, the customized hammer and that the front sight is not factory, I doubt your target sight was installed at the factory, especially if its serial number does not date to 1975.

However, even believing it's not an original 36 target, I'd have bought it for $375. Two inch 36s are so common that none of 5Wire's $400 average price for for them is attributable to collector value. They're utility pocket guns, plain and simple. The custom work on yours adds utility value, so in my opinion, its worth at least as much as the most common variety of 36, even though the market for trail guns is much smaller than the market for pocket guns.

I would shoot it for a while before changing anything. You might forget about its cosmetic imperfections while your admiring its tight groups.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-17-2011, 05:47 PM
Goony's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 236
Liked 410 Times in 173 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
There were 213 targets marked M36-1 made c. 1975 but supposedly had sq butts.
Well, I stand corrected. I had been speaking off the top of my head, and hadn't recalled there being any, but I do now see the reference to them in SCSW. One of those would be a great find.

That said (and my humble pie on the issue eaten), I'm still not as keen on this gun as some of you other guys are. I'll grant that a minimal, if any, premium was paid for the work done on it, and I can see how it's a desirable configuration. But it's not in the class of, say, the Pope barrelled M&P target recently discussed in another thread. I'm not a purist opposed to customizing guns per se, but when considering the worth of non-factory modifications, craftsmanship counts, and I think despite some of the work being well done on this one, the rest sounds pretty amateurish, even if it can be remediated. It seems, in general, that ultimately collectors mostly want guns that haven't been played with, and the ones that have are relegated to the status of curiosities. Maybe the passage of years will endow this altered piece with a bit of cachet' but I suspect that will not be in our lifetimes. In the meanwhile, if it shoots well and you're deriving enjoyment from it, well then, I wish this gun's new owner all the best.
__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-17-2011, 06:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,453
Likes: 5,663
Liked 2,652 Times in 1,493 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Wire View Post
Heres a short track & Chart:

Smith & Wesson 36 1-7/8 in Bbl Revolver in .38 Spl. Bluebook of Gun Values (32nd Edition) indicates between $360 in 95% condition and $535 in 100% condition for this gun. I have 62 recorded prices for this model gun from $250 to $600 over a period of 3 Yrs 5 Mos ending May 16, 2011. The average price as of that date was $394. No refurbs, no refinishes, regular sights. All represented as 95% or better. No engineering revision, if any, no special editions, no distinctions for box, papers, tools. Current or last MSRP is $822.

Here's the Chart, three months and eight prices behind the data but you'll get the idea. The trendlines are for averages. The average price trend in may was about $440. I'm sure it's highe by now. Better examples of the model would command higher prices, especially with box, papers, etc


This seems almost obsessive, but...wow!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:50 AM
5Wire's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portsmouth NH USA
Posts: 1,627
Likes: 609
Liked 432 Times in 180 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
This seems almost obsessive, but...wow!
No almost about it. Thanks!
__________________
Bob
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2
Likes: 8
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I bought a matched set of two of these little beauties sometime in the summer of 1975, I think. The story I got from the gunshop owner was that they were produced for the NYC Women's Auxiliary police force. Great little guns that I used a lot. I eventually traded one for a Rolex Explorer watch; the remaining one was unfortunately stolen by an ex-wife and her crew as they raided my house in my absence. Never got it back and have never seen one of these since then.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:19 AM
SixGunHunter's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 223
Likes: 16
Liked 38 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Now this is an interesting 36-1!

I am very new to S&W Revolvers.
I went through the pages of my new 3rd edition.
M36 with a 3" barrel were sq. butts, but the M50 with the 3" were both round and square butt. M50's were refered to M36-1 for a short time.

Regardless, I like this 36-1.
Perhaps more members will chime in with their opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:22 PM
SWCA Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 6,425
Commentaries: 3
Likes: 966
Liked 1,388 Times in 834 Posts
Default

I like it as well but prefer the sq butt. Finally just acquired my 1st target 36-1 (Pics to follow). Had quite a time accumulating the Chiefs Special, Pre-Mod, Mod 36 & Mod 60 target data in the SCSW:

Chiefs Special Targets were uncataloged, sporadic production 1955 thru 1990. Regular production began in 1996 w/Mod 60-10

BLUE: Models 36 and 50
Total production somewhere between 1740 and 2136 serial numbered in regular ranges.

First run of 100 in 1955, Pre Model 36, # range 55050-57919, 2nd style flat latch, 4 screw frames.

312 in 1954-55 reported Pre Model 37, 3 ” barrel.

14 in 1956, Pre model 36, 2nd style flat latch, some may have 4 screw frames.

198 in '59. Model 36, # range 149811-150133, 2" Sq Butt, 2nd or 3rd style flat latch.

Sporadic from 1965 – 1975, Mod 50, 2” and 3”, Rd or Sq Butt, early w/3rd style flat latch, few 3” w/RR front, w/o rear and wide trigger.

1006 in '66. Model 36, # 391773-392778, 2" Sq Butt. Flat latch 3rd style and diamond grips.

568 made in '73 Mod 50, # 930j45-936j19, 2" Sq Butt, standard thumbpiece.

37 in 1978, Mod 50, prefix # range 933j-936j, 2” Sq Butt, or Mod 37 (see page 217 SCSW, 3rd under Variations and also Engineering changes).

213 in 1975. Model 36-1, # range 2j3134-2j3347, 3" HB no lug, Sq Butt, pinned barrel.

615 in 1989. Mod 36-6 black bead blasted guns, 3" HB full lug and Rd Butt, .340 combat trigger.


STAINLESS: Model 60

660 in 1986. Mod 60-1, 2” barrel, Rd Butt, Special run for Ashland Shooting Supply.

1990. Mod 60-4, 3" HB full lug and Rd Butt, .340 target hammer, grooved .340 target trigger. Regular production.

1996. Re-introduced in .357 Mag on J Magnum frame. Regular production.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 03-12-2012 at 03:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-13-2012, 01:23 AM
SWCA Member

 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 6,425
Commentaries: 3
Likes: 966
Liked 1,388 Times in 834 Posts
Default

Finally got a pic to post.

I recently won this Blue Mod 36-1 Target, one of 213 made in 1975, Sq Butt, target trigger, pinned 3" HB (no lug) with a front sight ramp. No box, but no cyl line and it truly looks unfired. Although nothing like a pre war find I'm really tickled with it. The Chiefs targets always appealed to me and I was aware of their production runs, I was not aware of the exact configurations.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Tags
340, grooved, gunsmith, j frame, m340, m36, model 37, scsw, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, thumbpiece

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 Thread, Model 36-1 Value? in Smith & Wesson Revolvers; A local dealer has this Model 36-1. It's a J frame, rounded butt wood grips, about 3" barrel, but it's ...
LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/204653-model-36-1-value.html
Posted By For Type Date
Thread Model 36 no dash value | S-W Forum | BoardReader This thread Refback 07-13-2012 07:35 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2013
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)