Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:07 AM
David LaPell's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,845
Likes: 273
Liked 2,288 Times in 794 Posts
Default Model 14 with 4-inch barrel

A friend of mine picked up a Model 14 with a 4-inch heavy barrel. I know there were some 4-inch barreled guns and I heard some were marked for the Air Force, but where on these guns are the markings, and if it is a true 4-inch gun from either the Air Force or Dayton, OH PD how much is it worth? He has to get me the serial numbers later so I can see if it is one of the true 4-inch guns.
__________________
Vaya con Dios
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:42 AM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David LaPell View Post
A friend of mine picked up a Model 14 with a 4-inch heavy barrel. I know there were some 4-inch barreled guns and I heard some were marked for the Air Force, but where on these guns are the markings, and if it is a true 4-inch gun from either the Air Force or Dayton, OH PD how much is it worth? He has to get me the serial numbers later so I can see if it is one of the true 4-inch guns.
There were several versions of the 4" Model 14 and the serial number will be very helpful.

The first I'm aware of were pre-model 4-screws special ordered by the KCPD in 1957. These are generally in the K292XXX s/n range.

The second were special-made for the Air Force and examples have been found that are pre-14, 14 and 14-1 models so their s/n's are spread out. Some of these will letter as 6" and were send back to the factory to have the barrel cut to 4". If I remember correctly many were marked AFPG (Air Force Premium Grade) . . . do a thread search for AFPG and you'll find some very knowledgeable folks.

The third iteration I'm aware of were the 14-2 Dayton guns . . . not made for the Dayton PD but for Dayton Gun Headquarters. These were spread out from 1965 to roughly 1967. Again, a search of "Dayton" will provide a wealth of information. The 4" heavy barrel on the Dayton guns is very distinctive. Most are spread out in the K624XXX to K660XXX s/n range.

The fourth version I'm aware of were 14-3's shipped in July 1971 in the 1K3XXXX to 1K7XXXX s/n range. They were shipped to several S&W dealers (three that I'm aware of) and may have been a market test for the 4" heavy barrel Model 14.

Market value varies . . . a lot!

Russ

Last edited by linde; 11-03-2011 at 11:02 AM. Reason: correct Dayton s/n range
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:44 AM
18DAI's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 3,708
Likes: 3,223
Liked 1,981 Times in 651 Posts
Default

There were also the 125 or so 4" full lug 14-6's made by the Performance Center for police PPC competition. Regards 18DAI
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:30 AM
LEO918's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Death Valley, AZ
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,481
Liked 205 Times in 118 Posts
Default

I have a Model 14-3 with a 4" heavy barrel SN: 1K28324. Have not lettered it yet. Speculators think it may have shipped to in L.A.
__________________
Living a dream - S&WCA #2364
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Bud Jr.'s Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SE USA
Posts: 918
Likes: 212
Liked 86 Times in 58 Posts
Default

I'll step out on a limb and say to a Model 14 collector, if a true Dayton HB, the value would be 30% or more higher than normal. To a shooter, I would not know. I am certain there would be great differences everywhere from moment to moment.

Seems there were some Kansas guns, too. It is most likely a Dayton if a 14-2 HB and a great gun. The AF markings would most likel;y be obvious.
__________________
Consider the world.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:23 AM
David LaPell's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,845
Likes: 273
Liked 2,288 Times in 794 Posts
Default

I got off the phone with the owner, it is indeed a 14-1 and the serial number is K4537XX. The front sight is a standard ramp on a heavy barrel.
__________________
Vaya con Dios
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-05-2011, 05:03 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David LaPell View Post
I got off the phone with the owner, it is indeed a 14-1 and the serial number is K4537XX. The front sight is a standard ramp on a heavy barrel.
That could very well be a factory 4". I am aware of another 4" Model 14-1 with s/n K4538XX that letters as having shipped to an LA Wholesaler in 1961 . . . it could have been part of that shipment or part of that small "batch".

Good luck . . . let us hear back when you get to see it firsthand.

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:59 PM
michael thornton's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NORTH ALABAMA
Posts: 1,718
Likes: 186
Liked 59 Times in 38 Posts
Default

my afpg 14-1 is marked on the left side on the frame under the cyl, you would see it if it was so marked
__________________
WILL WORK FOR AMMO!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:52 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 426
Liked 795 Times in 364 Posts
Default

Ran into a Border Patrolman circa 1981 or so that had one issued to him. I didn't look it over closely but he was very specific that it was a M14, and the barrel was definitely a K-38 profile--just in 4". He was quite fond of it...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-08-2011, 09:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

To throw a curve into this thread, I have a Pre Mod 14, 4", SN K232XXX that letter as having shipped to the the U.S. Dept of Justice in 1955 in a Shipment of 10! Anyone have any idea of where these would have ended up....

Last edited by rgmc2009; 11-08-2011 at 09:24 PM. Reason: left out bbl length
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-08-2011, 10:59 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmc2009 View Post
To throw a curve into this thread, I have a Pre Mod 14, 4", SN K232XXX that letter as having shipped to the the U.S. Dept of Justice in 1955 in a Shipment of 10! Anyone have any idea of where these would have ended up....
Welcome to the forum . . . and thanks for posting what may be the earliest example of a special-order 4" (heavy) Combat Masterpiece. Very interesting . . . hopefully others will be able to respond with more information about where they might have ended up.

In addition to the 10 in the 1955 shipment, was there any indication in the factory letter that there were other shipments in the DOJ order?

Based on the serial number and ship date I expect yours is a 5-screw example (four side plate plus one at the front of the trigger guard). We would all enjoy seeing pictures if you're able to post them.

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-10-2011, 12:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

It is a 5 screw. I'll try to get some pictures posted. No mention of add'l shipments in the letter.

Last edited by rgmc2009; 11-10-2011 at 12:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Pre Mod 14, 4" shipped 1955 to U.S. Dept of Justice
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pre M14.jpg
Views:	266
Size:	58.5 KB
ID:	58064   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pre M14 Ltr.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	32.2 KB
ID:	58065  
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 426
Liked 795 Times in 364 Posts
Default

It could have been a Border Patrol gun as mentioned in my previous post above. INS was in DOJ, and the BP was a branch of INS.

I have a copy of a Service-wide firearms inventory from about 1974, though, and while it mentions numerous K frames (and a LOT of other things) to include Model 15s and 6" K-38s, there is no mention of any 4" K-38s. But inventories were riddled with errors then and now; plus it wouldn't take much for these guns to be lumped in with Model 15s for inventory purposes.

Anyway, that was the only one I ever saw.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I thought of that when I read your post. Thanks for the feedback!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Model 14-1 4 " Nickel

I found a model 14-1 4" heavy barrel w/nickel finish s/n#K455xxx for sale.
It has excellent finish, seems too nice to be a 1961 gun. The front site is ramped and pinned. What are the chances on this gun being original? The grips are two pieced wooden finger grooved. The asking price is $400.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:53 PM
murphydog's Avatar
SWCA Member

 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,216
Likes: 10
Liked 1,649 Times in 1,187 Posts
Default

The gun itself may be an original 4", but very unlikely to have been a factory nickel gun. The stocks do not sound period factory, either. Can you post a photo?
__________________
Alan
SWCA 2023
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-09-2012, 11:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It's at the gunshop, don't know if they let me take photos. I may just buy it if the price isn't too much. The sn# apperars to be struck after the finish. I have not seen a pinned front ramp sight. The trigger and hammer are jeweled, the gap is quite narrow, and when locked up, the rear play is very minimal, and the rotation seems acceptable. I'm no expert. Maybe I should pass on this one.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:04 AM
fat tom's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central South Carolina
Posts: 5,523
Likes: 3,426
Liked 6,128 Times in 1,654 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjak2000 View Post
Maybe I should pass on this one.
At $400,that's what I would do. JMO.
f.t.
__________________
South Carolina-God's country
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks f.t., Definitly giving it more thought. I prefer original guns. The grips narrow towards the bottom, I think Fuzzy, sure is purdy and looks fun to shoot. All numbers match.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:27 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,906
Likes: 218
Liked 1,770 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linde View Post
......The third iteration I'm aware of were the 14-2 Dayton guns . . . Most are spread out in the K624XXX to K660XXX s/n range....Russ
Russ, I see you said "Most", I have a 4" Model 14-2' just under that range at K623,400 FYI.... Any idea on production numbers of these guns?

On a side note there are more 4" Model 14's out there but marked as Model 15-6 and 15-7's.
(Model marked 15-7 below)


6" "Heavy" Masterpiece frame/barrel marked as Model 15-6 below

Last edited by Engine49guy; 01-10-2012 at 11:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-11-2012, 08:30 AM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Russ, I see you said "Most", I have a 4" Model 14-2' just under that range at K623,400 FYI.... Any idea on production numbers of these guns?

On a side note there are more 4" Model 14's out there but marked as Model 15-6 and 15-7's.
You are absolutely correct, the 14-2s for Dayton Gun Hq were in the K623XXX & K624XXX range and then again in the K660XXX & 661XXX range. Total quantities are estimated to be 2,000.

Your Model 15s are outstanding examples of 4" and 6" heavy barrels produced during the period 1982 to 1991 while the Model 14 was discontinued. I was aware these were produced in 15-5 and 15-6 examples but yours is the first 15-7 example I've heard of.

The 14-2 Dayton guns were essentially a Model 10 heavy barrel with target sights. The 4" Model 14-3s that I've seen appear to be 6" Model 14 barrels cut down by the factory. The 4" heavy Model 15s, however, have the front sight forged with the barrel indicating to me they were made to be 4".

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:34 AM
redhawk444's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Default

I happen to have a 14-2 in 4" version that has grips rounded at the bottom. I was told that this was a Dayton gun. Serial number is K660701. Anybody know when it was made?








Last edited by redhawk444; 01-11-2012 at 09:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-11-2012, 12:43 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk444 View Post
I happen to have a 14-2 in 4" version that has grips rounded at the bottom. I was told that this was a Dayton gun. Serial number is K660701. Anybody know when it was made?
Based on the serial number and muzzle profile I agree you have one of the Dayton guns. The modified magnas (also know as PC magnas) are correct and I believe you will find them numbered to the gun on the inside of the right panel.

My K660813 shipped in January 1967 and I would suspect yours would be the same or very close.

You have an excellent example . . . not all of them survived quite as well. Very nice!

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:57 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,906
Likes: 218
Liked 1,770 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linde View Post
...... I was aware these were produced in 15-5 and 15-6 examples but yours is the first 15-7 example I've heard of.
Russ
Russ those 15's were pics I saved of interesting guns in different parts of the forum and may have both been 15-6's.

My earlier 14-2 (pictured below middle with 15-1 and 19-3) also has PC Magnas but with diamonds.
Apparently the order came down to drop the diamonds by the second batch.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-11-2012, 11:48 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Russ those 15's were pics I saved of interesting guns in different parts of the forum and may have both been 15-6's.

My earlier 14-2 also has PC Magnas but with diamonds.
Apparently the order came down to drop the diamonds by the second batch.
You've got me curious now on the 15-7. Since it came out in 1994, well after the newly designed Model 14s were introduced in 1991, I assumed they dropped the heavy barrel version . . . but then I don't know that I've ever seen a 15-7 so don't know for sure.

You are right on the PC magnas on the 14-2 Dayton guns. My August 1965 shipped (K624XXX) has diamond PC magnas but the one shipped in January 1967 (K660XXX) is non-diamond.

Very nice trio of 4" Masterpieces . . . and great comparison pictures. Thanks for sharing,

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Here's a bad photo of the 14-1 4" nickel gun I bought yesterday.

I'll shoot it Sat. and get take some more photos if you like.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	14-1a.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	63476  
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-14-2012, 01:03 AM
Engine49guy's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,906
Likes: 218
Liked 1,770 Times in 721 Posts
Default

Its tough to see but is that front site Pinned on and blued?
If it is an original Nickel gun the jeweled hammer and trigger and grips are easy enough to replace .

More pics please
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:28 AM
bgrafsr's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elyria, Ohio US
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 4,205
Liked 1,170 Times in 509 Posts
Default

Here is my 14-2, # K623622, thanks to Jebus35745.

__________________
Bill Graf
Member #2272
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-30-2012, 09:39 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Independence, MO
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Model 14 4"

I have one of the KCPD weapons. SN# K37XXXX. I was issued the weapon in 1965 and was allowed to buy it when the Department went to the Stainless fixed sight model. I had S&W research the SN# and their research indicated that there was only 25 produced.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:46 AM
Mickey D's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Northern CA - Bay Area
Posts: 3,590
Likes: 3,174
Liked 2,027 Times in 818 Posts
Default

Great thread! Lots of knowledge being shared. Thanks
__________________
What would Scooby Doo?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:01 AM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lship View Post
I have one of the KCPD weapons. SN# K37XXXX. I was issued the weapon in 1965 and was allowed to buy it when the Department went to the Stainless fixed sight model. I had S&W research the SN# and their research indicated that there was only 25 produced.
The 4" KCPD Model 14s are very special guns . . . congratulations on retiring yours.

With a serial number of K37XXXX it would have shipped circa 1959 so it will likely be Model 14 marked. It's very possible that there were only 25 produced in that batch, but there was an earlier batch of 375 units of non-model marked 4" Heavy barrels that shipped to the KCPD in April 1957. I am also aware of a later batch of 4" heavy Model 14-3s that were purchased by the KCPD. And there could very well have been others.

If you would, please send me a PM with the complete serial number and I will start keeping track of others in the 1959 special run of 4" 14s.

Thanks for sharing,

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-10-2014, 05:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

New to the forum, but I joined because of a search I am doing for info about a 4 inch Model 14 I just picked up yesterday. Serial is K404xxx, no special markings at all. The grips are wrong and so is the rear sight. Wondering if a Jinks letter would be worth it.



Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #34  
Old 05-10-2014, 06:50 PM
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ozarks of Missouri
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 683
Liked 731 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewfus View Post
New to the forum, but I joined because of a search I am doing for info about a 4 inch Model 14 I just picked up yesterday. Serial is K404xxx, no special markings at all. The grips are wrong and so is the rear sight. Wondering if a Jinks letter would be worth it.
Welcome to the forum . . . good folks with lots of knowledge here.

Your 4" Model 14 appears to be factory original. A letter would confirm if it is an original 4" and tell you when and where it shipped. It's hard to tell from the serial number but it could have shipped to a federal agency such as the Border Patrol (see posts 9 thru 15)

As discussed in earlier posts, there were also several batches of 4" Model 14s that were shipped to various S&W Distributors . . . perhaps to test the market for a heavy barrel 4". Most of these were equipped with the Baughman ramp front sight like yours for holster carry.

The rear sight on yours appears to be the normal micrometer click rear sight used on post-war K-frame target revolvers such as the Model 14.

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-10-2014, 07:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I think the rear sight is off an N frame. It, hangs off the back too far, has a white outline blade, and is darker than the rest of the gun. EZ fix.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
327, combat masterpiece, grooved, m14, masterpiece, model 10, model 14, model 15, patrolman, performance center, ppc

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 Thread, Model 14 with 4-inch barrel in Smith & Wesson Revolvers; A friend of mine picked up a Model 14 with a 4-inch heavy barrel. I know there were some 4-inch ...
LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/215702-model-14-4-inch-barrel.html
Posted By For Type Date
Thread Model 14 with 4-inch barrel | S-W Forum | BoardReader This thread Refback 05-15-2012 01:59 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Model 29 6 1/2 inch or 8 3/8 inch barrel? SWBigBang S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 27 01-22-2014 01:23 PM
Model 29 four inch vs. six inch barrel. davidenorth S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 33 10-13-2012 06:51 PM
WTS: S&W model 10 w/3 inch barrel (SPF) m.pieroni GUNS - For Sale or Trade 3 02-12-2012 08:30 AM
WTB 5.5 inch model 41 barrel joefriday22 WANTED to Buy 2 04-13-2011 10:58 AM
WTS: 5 1/2 Inch Barrel For S&W Model 41 (SPF) Rev Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 3 01-20-2011 04:45 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)