A friend of mine picked up a Model 14 with a 4-inch heavy barrel. I know there were some 4-inch barreled guns and I heard some were marked for the Air Force, but where on these guns are the markings, and if it is a true 4-inch gun from either the Air Force or Dayton, OH PD how much is it worth? He has to get me the serial numbers later so I can see if it is one of the true 4-inch guns.

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Vaya con Dios

There were several versions of the 4" Model 14 and the serial number will be very helpful.

The first I'm aware of were pre-model 4-screws special ordered by the KCPD in 1957. These are generally in the K292XXX s/n range.

The second were special-made for the Air Force and examples have been found that are pre-14, 14 and 14-1 models so their s/n's are spread out. Some of these will letter as 6" and were send back to the factory to have the barrel cut to 4". If I remember correctly many were marked AFPG (Air Force Premium Grade) . . . do a thread search for AFPG and you'll find some very knowledgeable folks.

The third iteration I'm aware of were the 14-2 Dayton guns . . . not made for the Dayton PD but for Dayton Gun Headquarters. These were spread out from 1965 to roughly 1967. Again, a search of "Dayton" will provide a wealth of information. The 4" heavy barrel on the Dayton guns is very distinctive. Most are spread out in the K624XXX to K660XXX s/n range.

The fourth version I'm aware of were 14-3's shipped in July 1971 in the 1K3XXXX to 1K7XXXX s/n range. They were shipped to several S&W dealers (three that I'm aware of) and may have been a market test for the 4" heavy barrel Model 14.

Market value varies . . . a lot!

Russ

There were also the 125 or so 4" full lug 14-6's made by the Performance Center for police PPC competition. Regards 18DAI

I have a Model 14-3 with a 4" heavy barrel SN: 1K28324. Have not lettered it yet. Speculators think it may have shipped to in L.A.

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

I'll step out on a limb and say to a Model 14 collector, if a true Dayton HB, the value would be 30% or more higher than normal. To a shooter, I would not know. I am certain there would be great differences everywhere from moment to moment.

Seems there were some Kansas guns, too. It is most likely a Dayton if a 14-2 HB and a great gun. The AF markings would most likel;y be obvious.

I got off the phone with the owner, it is indeed a 14-1 and the serial number is K4537XX. The front sight is a standard ramp on a heavy barrel.

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Vaya con Dios

That could very well be a factory 4". I am aware of another 4" Model 14-1 with s/n K4538XX that letters as having shipped to an LA Wholesaler in 1961 . . . it could have been part of that shipment or part of that small "batch".

Good luck . . . let us hear back when you get to see it firsthand.

Russ

my afpg 14-1 is marked on the left side on the frame under the cyl, you would see it if it was so marked

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

Ran into a Border Patrolman circa 1981 or so that had one issued to him. I didn't look it over closely but he was very specific that it was a M14, and the barrel was definitely a K-38 profile--just in 4". He was quite fond of it...

To throw a curve into this thread, I have a Pre Mod 14, 4", SN K232XXX that letter as having shipped to the the U.S. Dept of Justice in 1955 in a Shipment of 10! Anyone have any idea of where these would have ended up....

Welcome to the forum . . . and thanks for posting what may be the earliest example of a special-order 4" (heavy) Combat Masterpiece. Very interesting . . . hopefully others will be able to respond with more information about where they might have ended up.

In addition to the 10 in the 1955 shipment, was there any indication in the factory letter that there were other shipments in the DOJ order?

Based on the serial number and ship date I expect yours is a 5-screw example (four side plate plus one at the front of the trigger guard). We would all enjoy seeing pictures if you're able to post them.

Russ

It is a 5 screw. I'll try to get some pictures posted. No mention of add'l shipments in the letter.

Pre Mod 14, 4" shipped 1955 to U.S. Dept of Justice

Attached Images

	Pre M14.jpg (58.5 KB, 580 views)
	Pre M14 Ltr.jpg (32.2 KB, 289 views)

It could have been a Border Patrol gun as mentioned in my previous post above. INS was in DOJ, and the BP was a branch of INS.

I have a copy of a Service-wide firearms inventory from about 1974, though, and while it mentions numerous K frames (and a LOT of other things) to include Model 15s and 6" K-38s, there is no mention of any 4" K-38s. But inventories were riddled with errors then and now; plus it wouldn't take much for these guns to be lumped in with Model 15s for inventory purposes.

Anyway, that was the only one I ever saw.

I thought of that when I read your post. Thanks for the feedback!

I found a model 14-1 4" heavy barrel w/nickel finish s/n#K455xxx for sale.
It has excellent finish, seems too nice to be a 1961 gun. The front site is ramped and pinned. What are the chances on this gun being original? The grips are two pieced wooden finger grooved. The asking price is $400.

The gun itself may be an original 4", but very unlikely to have been a factory nickel gun. The stocks do not sound period factory, either. Can you post a photo?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It's at the gunshop, don't know if they let me take photos. I may just buy it if the price isn't too much. The sn# apperars to be struck after the finish. I have not seen a pinned front ramp sight. The trigger and hammer are jeweled, the gap is quite narrow, and when locked up, the rear play is very minimal, and the rotation seems acceptable. I'm no expert. Maybe I should pass on this one.

At $400,that's what I would do. JMO.
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

Thanks f.t., Definitly giving it more thought. I prefer original guns. The grips narrow towards the bottom, I think Fuzzy, sure is purdy and looks fun to shoot. All numbers match.

Russ, I see you said "Most", I have a 4" Model 14-2' just under that range at K623,400 FYI.... Any idea on production numbers of these guns?

On a side note there are more 4" Model 14's out there but marked as Model 15-6 and 15-7's.
(Model marked 15-7 below)


6" "Heavy" Masterpiece frame/barrel marked as Model 15-6 below

You are absolutely correct, the 14-2s for Dayton Gun Hq were in the K623XXX & K624XXX range and then again in the K660XXX & 661XXX range. Total quantities are estimated to be 2,000.

Your Model 15s are outstanding examples of 4" and 6" heavy barrels produced during the period 1982 to 1991 while the Model 14 was discontinued. I was aware these were produced in 15-5 and 15-6 examples but yours is the first 15-7 example I've heard of.

The 14-2 Dayton guns were essentially a Model 10 heavy barrel with target sights. The 4" Model 14-3s that I've seen appear to be 6" Model 14 barrels cut down by the factory. The 4" heavy Model 15s, however, have the front sight forged with the barrel indicating to me they were made to be 4".

Russ

I happen to have a 14-2 in 4" version that has grips rounded at the bottom. I was told that this was a Dayton gun. Serial number is K660701. Anybody know when it was made?

Based on the serial number and muzzle profile I agree you have one of the Dayton guns. The modified magnas (also know as PC magnas) are correct and I believe you will find them numbered to the gun on the inside of the right panel.

My K660813 shipped in January 1967 and I would suspect yours would be the same or very close.

You have an excellent example . . . not all of them survived quite as well. Very nice!

Russ

Russ those 15's were pics I saved of interesting guns in different parts of the forum and may have both been 15-6's.

My earlier 14-2 (pictured below middle with 15-1 and 19-3) also has PC Magnas but with diamonds.
Apparently the order came down to drop the diamonds by the second batch.

You've got me curious now on the 15-7. Since it came out in 1994, well after the newly designed Model 14s were introduced in 1991, I assumed they dropped the heavy barrel version . . . but then I don't know that I've ever seen a 15-7 so don't know for sure.

You are right on the PC magnas on the 14-2 Dayton guns. My August 1965 shipped (K624XXX) has diamond PC magnas but the one shipped in January 1967 (K660XXX) is non-diamond.

Very nice trio of 4" Masterpieces . . . and great comparison pictures. Thanks for sharing,

Russ

Here's a bad photo of the 14-1 4" nickel gun I bought yesterday.

I'll shoot it Sat. and get take some more photos if you like.

Attached Images

14-1a.jpg (42.5 KB, 225 views)

Its tough to see but is that front site Pinned on and blued?
If it is an original Nickel gun the jeweled hammer and trigger and grips are easy enough to replace .

More pics please

Here is my 14-2, # K623622, thanks to Jebus35745.

I have one of the KCPD weapons. SN# K37XXXX. I was issued the weapon in 1965 and was allowed to buy it when the Department went to the Stainless fixed sight model. I had S&W research the SN# and their research indicated that there was only 25 produced.

Great thread! Lots of knowledge being shared. Thanks

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

The 4" KCPD Model 14s are very special guns . . . congratulations on retiring yours.

With a serial number of K37XXXX it would have shipped circa 1959 so it will likely be Model 14 marked. It's very possible that there were only 25 produced in that batch, but there was an earlier batch of 375 units of non-model marked 4" Heavy barrels that shipped to the KCPD in April 1957. I am also aware of a later batch of 4" heavy Model 14-3s that were purchased by the KCPD. And there could very well have been others.

If you would, please send me a PM with the complete serial number and I will start keeping track of others in the 1959 special run of 4" 14s.

Thanks for sharing,

Russ

New to the forum, but I joined because of a search I am doing for info about a 4 inch Model 14 I just picked up yesterday. Serial is K404xxx, no special markings at all. The grips are wrong and so is the rear sight. Wondering if a Jinks letter would be worth it.

Welcome to the forum . . . good folks with lots of knowledge here.

Your 4" Model 14 appears to be factory original. A letter would confirm if it is an original 4" and tell you when and where it shipped. It's hard to tell from the serial number but it could have shipped to a federal agency such as the Border Patrol (see posts 9 thru 15)

As discussed in earlier posts, there were also several batches of 4" Model 14s that were shipped to various S&W Distributors . . . perhaps to test the market for a heavy barrel 4". Most of these were equipped with the Baughman ramp front sight like yours for holster carry.

The rear sight on yours appears to be the normal micrometer click rear sight used on post-war K-frame target revolvers such as the Model 14.

Russ

I think the rear sight is off an N frame. It, hangs off the back too far, has a white outline blade, and is darker than the rest of the gun. EZ fix.