BruceM,

I agree with everything you said. Almost all of the "old meat" hunters neck shot. And most of them were careful about doing it. As in the case of the errant female they probably wouldn't have been using a cheap scope if they could avoid it.

I would suspect that a seriously accurate .243 loaded with a fast 70 to 85 grain hollowpoint would explode enough at close range that a slight miss might still kill quickly due to explosive reactions.

I have posted this elsewere but I knew of a meat hunter who killed his white-tails with neck shots with a .218 Bee at 10 feet.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

I have shot 2 deer with a .357 Magnum, and found it to be a marginal deer cartridge at best. This year, I moved up to a .45 Colt, and after seeing what it did to a large doe I shot with it, I would never go back to a .357 Magnum. Oh, and I would never even consider a .38 Special for deer.

Don

Same here. Heavy hard cast LSWC's coming out hot of my .41 mag. I try to keep my distances short. Most deer don't know what hit em and they always make two holes for a kill. Used to use the standard Remington 210 gr. JSP load for a couple of years back in the early 80's till I discovered hard cast bullets and a Rock Chucker. The Remingtons worked well but paled in comparison to my handloads.

A .38 is below marginal to risk losing a beautiful animal because of it's weak ballistics!

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V/R
Roger / SG

i agree, i do alot of handgun hunting for deer, the smallest caliber i carry is .41 mag.

IGGY nailed it in my opinion. I have more respect for the animal. Good luck in your choice.

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Go big or stay home

My apoligies , but came across this thread accidently thru Google rather than digging thru the forum archives.

Statement #1 - A former co-worker used a .38Spl for deer ( 4in Colt Diamondback , W-W 158 LHP ). Involved a 5 cell flashlight , and shooting at the glowing eyes, and they reportedly dropped instantly. Not aproving. Just reporting.

Statement #2 - I can't really envision much difference in effect between a complete penetration non-expanding .38Spl and a complete penetration non-expanding .357Mag. Take whichever combination of praise for .38 and slam on .357 as one wishes.

Statement #3 - A larger dia non-expanding bullet , even with "modest" energy , will be more forgiving than either.

The various Game Dept regulations can be either very vague , or excessively micromanaging. The required minimums can be non-existant , or actually well in excess of what is actually suitable.

"State A " requires 6in bbl , and min 700ftLb. "States B & C " which border A require 4in bbl , and 350ftlb , and the deer are the same on either side of respective state lines.

Biggfoot's preferences and recomendations are another topic. But B & C's regulations are a lot closer to reality , given decent shot placement , and suitable distance.

A .22 rimfire rifle is the poacher's standard armament mainly because of its low noise level. And a .22 will do the job with a close-up head shot. Many years ago, I had a friend who used a Winchester Model 43 in .22 Hornet as his deer rifle, and he got his limit every year with it. But he was a good shot, and, in that part of the country, you never got a shot opportunity over about 50 yards due to heavy cover. Even if legal, I wouldn't use a .38 Special handgun for deer hunting. For that matter, I wouldn't use any handgun for deer hunting. Why handicap yourself?

Actually.. yes and no..

No, in a handgun .38 special is not a legal caliber in Ohio ... has to be .357 or larger..

However.... Ohio now being able to use straight-walled cartridge rifles.. the .38 special is listed..
From the ODNR website ...
(New this year, specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are now legal for use during the deer-gun season. These specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are legal for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum,
.38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson )

For some reason there seems to be a LOT of confusion over this...

sorry for the thread drift..

Very well put. Many thousands of deer have been taken with .22 rimfire rifles. The .22 rimfire rifle serves as the basic tool used by game management officers across the country, frequently in suppressed versions for use in populated areas to cull deer without unduly upsetting residents. Typically a 60-grain bullet at about 1000FPS, well under the power of just about any .38 Special revolver load.

There is a huge difference between hunting and killing. The .22LR will reliably put down a deer at short ranges (under 50 yards certainly) with a head shot, and that is not difficult to achieve on an animal standing still, especially at night in the beam of a spotlight. This does not mean that the .22LR is acceptable for deer hunting, which can be expected to involve animals in cover, moving at all angles, and perhaps with some sense of alarm that has raised adrenaline levels to the "fight or flight" level of survival.

Over the years I have used a .38 Special revolver to dispatch several deer that had been struck by automobiles. Some were obviously crippled and lying down, while others were upright and attempting to escape. I have used head shots when possible, but I have also used heart-lung shots on several. The .38 Special is certainly capable of doing the job at short ranges, but that does not make it a deer hunting weapon.

I was once tasked with culling deer on a military post because of an overpopulation problem with predictable damage (residential areas, golf course, and others). I did this at night using a spotlight and a M1911A-1 .45 caliber pistol. Just about all shots were taken within 25 yards on still animals. I used body shots exclusively with 230-grain ball ammunition. Most of the animals were in the 85-125 lb. range (not really well nourished). I took dozens of deer in this manner. None required a second shot. None went further than a few yards before going down. None went to waste; every one was field dressed and delivered to a family that wanted the meat.

That experience did not convince me that the .45ACP is a proper choice for deer hunting, only that it will do the job of killing quickly at short range under relatively controlled conditions.

When I hunted deer I usually used either a .30-06 or .30-30 rifle, or in one state with restrictions I used a shotgun with rifled slugs. I took one deer using .357 magnum, at about 40 yards with a standing animal and broadside shot through the heart-lung area, and that worked quite well. I recall missing a few shots also, and I remember one big Colorado mule deer buck taken at 400-plus yards with .30-06 that required 3 shots into the chest cavity before he went down (and a 4th as a mercy shot), providing a lesson on terminal ballistics at extended ranges.

Know your game and hunting conditions, and take enough gun to do the job cleanly under any circumstances that might arise.

I live where a lot of folks hunt deer with pointy sticks with strings that propel missiles at an amazing 400 fps. The experienced ones usually get it finished with a good blood trail, the lesser ones, well life is not about "fair". That said, deer are lost to 12gauge gut shots, placement is everything.

What vital organ resides in a deer's NECK? Some of the toughest MUSCLE as well as thickest hide is found on the neck and front of the chest.

Why not LUNG shoot the deer? Pop both lungs and it's done. If you hit the heart as well, it's a bonus.

I have never understood the hunters who shoot at heads and necks versus where their vital organs reside. Many state they wish to save meat. How much meat is saved if the animal is lost? You take out the heart or lungs through the ribcage...so you lose some RIB meat? Who cares.

And the story regarding your Road Deputies. They either need some marksmanship training or are shooting THE most frangible .45 slugs available to man.

I HEAD shot hundreds of road injured deer every year when I was on the Hwy Patrol. We would have so many deer hit on the Interstate that occasionally I did 2-3 a shift.
When we carried +P .38's and 125 gr HP's I had no issues. Same for the 147 gr 9mm sub sonic loads. Hardly the optimal loads but with proper placement they worked.

To the OP: Please don't shoot your deer with a .38 special. Unless they will stand still for you so you can get within 10 or 15 feet. Then I suggest a shot to the ear canal at an angle to go out through the other ear. Works very well.

FN in MT

Not to worry. The OP, buckman, hasn't been on the forum since November 2011, when this thread was active. Kind of a "hit and run".

Interesting discussion though.

Hunting ethics, use a big enough gun for a quick clean kill we owe it to the animal. To use a 38 special is just not right. I never hunted with anything less than a 44 Magnum. Being new to the 41 Magnum I might try that. I carried the 357 Magnum as back up but have up carrying handguns when I purchased the 338wm.

It's like me hunting with a 1911/45acp. There's a clown on you tube going through magazines while chasing a hog. It's not funny at all.

I'm not a hunter, but I did buy some Buffalo Bore +P "Outdoorsman" cartridges for curiosity's sake because BB claims they got 500 ft/lb.s of muzzle energy out of a gun that's almost identical to my late '50's model 14. That's pretty much .357 power.

As I recall, the energy drops dramatically by 40 yards; cartridge wasn't intended for hunting, but I think close up protection against black bears. Bullet is hardcast for skull/shoulder bone penetration, and wouldn't really mushroom like a hunting bullet is supposed to do.

According to what I've read, the cartridge was not developed because .38 Special is an optimum round for that application - it was developed for old-timers who have a .38 and don't want to buy a more powerful gun. Out of a Marlin or Rossi rifle, some .38 Special ammo could have fairly impressive ballistics at 40 or 50 yards, but not so much in a handgun.

THINK ABOUT IT. DO YOU HONESTLY IMAGINE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE BETTER RESULTS THAN ELMER ? ? ?

PUT YOUR EGO ASIDE, AND CARRY ENOUGH GUN, WITH THE APPROPRIATE AMMO, TO DISPATCH YOUR GAME IN A HUMANE MANNER. THAT'S WHAT ETHICAL HUNTING IS ALL ABOUT. IN ANY EVENT, I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT HUNTING DEER WITH A .38 CALIBER REVOLVER IS LEGAL IN YOUR STATE…...

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Heck, why not use a hammer?

As so often, Lobo nailed it:

some people say a 30-30 should not be used, it is outdated and just not up to the job. after all why use that when you can use a 30-06 or 300 mag. but the same folks will say a 44 mag. is a monster of a handgun to use on a deer.

a 30-30 with 170gr. bullet has more energy at 100 yds than a 44 mag. has at the muzzle with a 240 gr. bullet. i know a 38 dose not have the velocity of a 357 mag.but it will go slam through a broad side deer. a double lung hit and it is over within 50 yds or so. here is what an lowly outdated 30-30 will do with a way to small of a bullet to be effective on deer. a sierra 125gr. hp. it's all about placement placement placement...

i black powder hunt to and people take many deer all the time with 32 and 40 cal. round balls with low velocity and no expansion all the time....... placement

Absolutely not.

Never been a deer hunter and preferred chasing birds, but threads like this one are fun to watch as all the experts get pretty heated about their opinions.

I certainly agree with use enough gun, but settling on a choice starts many discussions just as in personal defense calibers. I think being able to hit a target consistently is much more important than caliber, and that depends on the shooter. Some are patient enough to wait for the proper time to shoot while others shoot more bushes than game.

The comparison between the 30-30 and 44 Maggie is enlightening. Both are good calibers for brush guns.

It would be interesting to know what the OP actually did and how successful he has been.