Thoughts anyone? Would be shots within 40 yards. Too small or big enough to get the job done?

Way too small in my opinion. A full power .357 is consider the bare minimum. Why torture and animal if you don't have to.

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Dick

Under the conditions you describe, adequate if properly loaded and carefully placed (at least for most of the smallish deer we have in GA).

I'm thinking of a longer barrel and the Buffalo Bore +P loads or equivalent.

My opinion - possible but not advisable. If you had a near-.357 load with a heavy bullet, preferably in a long barrel (6 - 8 3/8") and the field skills to get close enough...or maybe just use a more powerful gun, if you have or can borrow one?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

If you can consistently put a +P in a coffee cup at that range, yes. Otherwise, no.

But I don't recommend it.

In my home state, Ohio as well as many other states a .38 special is legal. At a range of 30 to 40 yards with accuracy in mind the kenetic energy should be enough with a jacketed hollow point shouldn't it.

With a 6in tube and perfect shot placement.....

A real good reliable expanding bullet will be a must.

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Take your time..quickly.

I got more respect for the critter than to risk a bad shot with a minimal gun, and him dyin' slow.

I've got a friend that swears by his model 16 in .32 Magnum- he has killed at least two dozen deer with it- all with cast bullets, and hasn't lost a one yet.

The fact is, there isn't a "magic" gun for deer, and shot placement is everything no matter what caliber is used.

One of the favorite legal deer guns around here is the .22 Hornet. I would have to figure, that a soft, nearly pure LSWHP in .38 Special would be more effective in dumping it's energy into a deer than the hornet.

The most favorite calibers around here for deer...killing...is .22Magnum followed by .22 LR.

I am not a deer hunter...too much work for me. I'm going to stick with squirrels.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Just to clarify I have a great deal of respect for the game that I pursue. The place I am hunting is a very dense new growth clearcut. There are several winding trails meandering throughout. The last 4 deer I have taken there were from 10, 12, 18, and 7 yards. Unless they are ontop of you you don't see them. The longest possible shot would be about 30 yards over a foodplot that is hunted by another person. I was just wondering what everyones ideas were on the .38. I have a great shooting model 10 with a 6 inch tube. At 25 yards I can put all six in a 3 inch circle.

Unless that is your only choice I don't see why you would take less gun than advisable. Most would say that a heavily loaded .357 would be minimal for the purpose with a larger caliber preferable.

Tom

I think that using less than a hot loaded .357 would not be fair to the animal. No animal deserves to suffer. You want a quick - clean kill. .357 or better IMHO.

Unequivocal NO from me - inadequate caliber IMHO.

Larry

it's funny how people believe every thing they read and see on tv. i grew up here in s.c. with men that lived to deer hunt. we never listen to the so called experts, gun writers that never tried a smaller cal. or that may have never even went hunting tell us that a a 22lr or a hornet or 222 was to small for deer. we just thought that with correct bullet placement they would kill quick, and they did. i have saw my dad and his friend kill truck loads of deer in there lives with hornets and 22s i have skinned more than i can ever remember that have been shot with many different 22 cal. weapons from 22lr-220swift. a 22lr with a solid lead bullet at close range 50yds or so will break ribs and colaspe lungs. i have also saw deer hit wrong with a 30-06 never recovered. the bottom line all comes down to shot placement. with all that said i would not use a 38 if i had a 357 but if i did i would use a heavy cast bullet and know that i could put it where i want it to go. i know a 38 does not have the shock as a 243 ect. but the dia. of 357 is as large as a 243 will ever hope to expand.

There is one .38 I would use, it's my .38-44 which was the forerunner of the .357 Magnum. The rounds for these are not +P though, they are +P+ and then some. The only guns you would want to fire these out of are the old New Service guns, the .38-44 guns like the Outdoorsman and the Heavy Duty, or of couse any .357 Magnum. The bullet also matters, I prefer the #358429 170 grain cast bullet. Will this round do it at 40 yards, yes it will. Keep in mind out of this barrel and this gun my load of 12.5 grains of 2400 is doing 1,200 fps, a good 400 fps better than a standard .38 Special.

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Vaya con Dios

use a .357 magnum it would be unfair to use an underpowered gun and cause the deer unnecessary suffering.

The perhaps 25 not 40 yards is appropriate. The same ethic should apply as with archery and for that matter rifles. If you conform to self imposed responsible limits, okay.

With that said, I guess it's up to what bullet you use and your own good judgement on range. I'd probably opt for the .357, but all I have are .38s so there I go. Sounds like you are a pretty fair shot!!

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

I have done a fair amount of deer hunting over the last twenty years and one thing I have learned is that deer move a lot. Often, they move just as you squeeze off a shot. You want a cartridge that will be adequate even if the shot placement, angle of entry, etc. are less than ideal.

Besides, you will be hunting in thick cover. IE, there may be brush, small branches, whatever, between you and the deer. These obstacles can deflect even large heavy bullets, causing a different point of impact. What do you think would happen to lighter bullets?

Sure, deer have been killed with .22LR rounds. I doubt that caliber is legal in your state, but regardless, I believe it is unethical, outside a survival-type situation. And keep in mind that a typical 22LR has more energy at the muzzle than a typical .38 Special.

Paper targets or coffee cups don't move and are not (usually) in thick cover. Lessons learned from shooting such stationary targets, probably under ideal ambient conditions, are highly suspect when applied to hunting in the field.

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You're shy a few manners.

Sure, it will do the job with good shot placement. I'd use a HARD cast, flat nose lead bullet loaded pretty hot that will hit hard and leave an exit wound every time . . . for you'll be trailing a lot of game shooting them with a .38 Special.

I've got several .357 magnum revolvers but have never taken them to hunt deer. I prefer the .44 magnum, 6" S&W revolver for this duty, and I shoot a very heavy, hard cast flat-nose lead bullet, loaded hot. It hammers 'em every time, year after year. I HATE to track deer and I only fire when I know he's dead when I see the muzzle flash.

You can try it if you like with the .38, but I don't think you'll want to hunt with it once you do.

bad idea.... it would be a long day

The one thing I noticed is that you didn't say what type of gun you were using. Is it something like a Model 10 or are we talking a J frame gun? While I think that it could be done if you whacked the deer in the head at a distance of 10 yards with a hardcast bullet, you really want something else. Like I said, my .38-44 is the smallest thing I would use only because it is right about at .357 levels, but I know what my bullet can do, it has a great history of killing game but the .38-44 is also much faster. I put your standard .38 at the same level of killing a deer as a .223.

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Vaya con Dios

Be an ethical hunter.

Don't hunt deer with a .38 Special.

It's simply sub-standard for the job.

Even a .357 magnum is borderline for deer.

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'Merica!

Howdy,
I have to go along with what G-mac says.
I killed my first Missouri deer with a .38 pistol. I was young, dumb and lucky.
Not long after that I shot one at about 15 yards with a model 27 with a handload of Bluedot that made the cases stick in the gun. Singed his hair!
I watched it dot him behind the shoulder and new he was hit hard. He ran off and after a short blood trail dried up I was unable to track him.
I looked for ever and never did locate it. I am certain it died
I switched to a .44 with cast bullets and never lost another.
When I did have to track one there was always a decent blood trail and a hole clean through them. What Iggy says about bleeding out of two holes is good advice.
I know a lot of folks will disagree, but I would not recommend .38 or .357.
If a person feels the need to use a .357 I'd advise a heavy, non hollow point, soft tip or cast bullet as fast as you can push it.
where we hunt it would be rare to get a shot over 50 yards and I would not recommend any shots over that with the exception of a scoped gun off a rest.
Good luck and I hope you get one.
Thanks
Mike

I've taken deer with rifles and bows over the years.With a 38 you have a good chance of wounding and losing a deer.It is amazing how a deer that runs less than 100 yards after being hit can take hours to find.Use a round with enough power to knock it down.

Deer are like people. Some have amazing vitality and some will fall over dead at the least likely wound.

I have killed a few deer with center-fire rifles and explosive bullets with lung shots and they all fell dead right there if hit properly.

Poking a hole in a deer, without some form of explosive damage to the internals will likely cause them to travel a ways, even a long ways before they die.

I suspect more game is wounded and left to die via bowhunting than killed outright.

You can kill a deer with a sharpened stick if you're close enough and strike the heart or lungs. But it will be a slow death.

But with today's technology there is no reason to take an animal with anything but a clean kill.

In the hands of a well trained hunter a bow, a handgun, a rifle, will kill quickly. As you deviate away from the rifle to the bow the level of skill, patience, and knowledge increases exponentially.

I do not consider a .38 Special load of any kind a proper device for taking a deer. It can be done but there are better weapons available and there is no excuse for using a marginal method of killing.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

"I have done a fair amount of deer hunting over the last twenty years and one thing I have learned is that deer move a lot. Often, they move just as you squeeze off a shot."

Roger that!

This has nothing to do with marksmanship or hunting ability. Why cut everything to the naked edge of utility by using a marginal round. I would also give the same response to those who take head shots to avoid meat damage and loss. I've seen more than a few deer at the processor with jaws shot off, etc. and you have to know that there some still walking around in the woods with parts of their faces missing because of this stupidity.

Out of respect for the animal and the sport of hunting, use enough gun. Whether it be handgun or rifle, it doesn't need to be the biggest & baddest boomer out there but use enough just in case everything doesn't happen exactly as planned.

Is .38 Special enough-IMO no.



Bruce

Use that 38 special only if you are going hungry and have no other options. The animal deserves more.

Read Elmer Keith's experiences with the .38 Special (heavily loaded) and the .38-44 on deer sized game in SIXGUNS. He did NOT get good results. .357 Magnum loaded with good quality ammo would be the minimum caliber recommended. .38 Special may not even be legal for deer in some states. Why shoot an animal with a .38 Special only to watch him run off and die a painful death several days later?

Back in Nov 1981, I watched a 6 point white tail buck wander along a creek bed, while I "watered a tree".

Since My 12 gauge Ithaca "Buck-Buster" (single-shot) was leaning against a near-by tree, I reached for My S&W model 67 (loaded with very warm hand-loads), and shot that buck twice in his neck.....yes, he was very close to me.

The buck bleated, while looking for the source of the noise, and his dis-comfort.
Not wanting to lose My deer, I dove for the Ithaca, and placed the sights onto the now trotting buck deer.
Seconds later, My Brenneke slug admirably performed it's job, and profoundly dropped that animal.

After that day, I never again carried any .38 special as a hunting companion; instead, I carried either My Colt Trooper Mark-III (.357 mag), or any of My bigger bore magnum handguns.

I agree with you

Elmer Keith developed the #358429 bullet specifically for the old .38-44 and it did do the job on deer and other animals. Brian Pearce in his article a few years back on the .38-44 described how he killed a mule deer with one, but he even said he prefers bigger. I have alot of respect for the .38-44 because it will kill deer, WITH the right bullets and at a reasonable distance, but the standard .38 Special even with a decent bullet isn't moving fast enough to get the job done. I have heard of it being done, and I equate those stories to more luck than anything else. My .38-44 is the smallest caliber I am going to try deer with if I can ever get out there but that was after years of load experimentation and alot of practice.

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Vaya con Dios

38 for deer...no way!i use no less than a 41 mag.

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Hi, the good ol' Keith #358429 bullet shape is a great one for penetration. Just as great, this bullet has incredible accuracy too!!! Going prone, I can typically impress friends by nailing a milk jug virtually every time (unless the wind is up) . . . at a carefully paced 200 yards (just put the red dot on the holosight 34" high and the bullet will "rainbow" right in)!

In a hot loaded .38 Special . . . it will eventually kill 'em so the coyotes can get a free meal so I'd up the caliber to either .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum and they'll thump the deer humanely. My only problem has been several instances of drilling the deer through the heart and have it take off. A deer with no "pump" won't leave much, if any, blood trail and they can cover a lot of territory in that few seconds when they are dead but don't know it yet . . . sometimes 40-50 yards or more!

Yep, hit 'em right with a big ol' hardcast lead, flatnose bullet like this in a magnum caliber starting with the number four, and you'll stop losing animals. That's been my long-term with this type bullet in my .44 Magnum, and it has taken a LOT of deer through the years . . . including this once-in-a-lifetime piebald whitetail buck.

Buckman,
Ill probably get flamed here but I can take it?
.38 well in real close a hot load and a head shot? If you are good with your chosen pistol? OK?
I hunt on occasion with a handgun and if the shot is not perfect, I let em walk!!! (Hand Gun caliber .357) with your .38 hot 158 solid 10 to 15 yds
and only if you are good with it (head Shots)
Do ya have the patience to let em walk no matter what rack etc, close enough clear shot? That is what it is all about with a handgun.
(can you see the deers chin whiskers?)
food for the table cause you are Hungry get a bigger gun!!!!

".38 well in real close a hot load and a head shot? If you are good with your chosen pistol? OK?"

See response #27. It was inevitable



Bruce

i too am go to take heat for this, but i HAVE shot deer with a 38spc, i kept the shots under 50yds, and the shot placement has to be right on the money

.38 Special is not legal for deer in Minnesota...

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"Shall not be infringed"

One little thing about some head shots on deer. Several times a year I talk to one of our road patrol deputies who has had to dispatch a deer hit by a car. I know of several times where these guys have had to whack a deer in the head with a .45 ACP and the deer ends up bleating and bleeding all over the side of the road until they get a close range shot with a .223 (not pretty salvaged one 2 years ago). I am really against head shots with whitetails with anything since it is a fairly small target at distance. Have I shot deer in the neck? Yes and they dropped like a stone. I would sooner try to put one through the backbone then the head.

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Vaya con Dios

Are .38 Specials even legal???????

In my state the smallest is .357 Magnum with at least 4" barrel.

Sorry....but you are either misinformed or a "troll"....the .38 Special is "not" a legal handgun caliber in Ohio according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources. You can read up on the hunting regulations in your "home state" by going to the link below.

Allowable Hunting Equipment

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Laus Deo! <><

I use a 460..........I am 8 for 8 from 30 yards out to 175......you can't have too big of a gun.....38 would be too small.......

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millbilly

This is the rule for gun hunting in Ohio just to save someone any trouble. Gun Season and Youth Deer Gun Season:

10-gauge or smaller shotgun using one ball or one rifled slug per barrel (rifled shotgun barrels are permitted when using shotgun slug ammunition); or muzzleloading rifle .38 caliber or larger; or handgun with 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger, or longbow, crossbow (draw weight limitations same as for Archery Season). Shotguns cannot be capable of holding more than three shells.

Is it possible to use too big of caliber in a handgun to kill deer? I don't think so as the left over energy will be expended downrange after it passes though the animal.

This should not be confused with the shooter can not shoot well as it is to powerful for him to handle.

If your shots are always going to be perfect then why not just use a 22? At the close ranges you describe I understand why using a low powered round is tempting. But, as others have pointed out, what if at the moment you squeeze the trigger the deer moves expectedly or something causes you to flinch?

I've never read so much BS. IF you get a perfect/near perfect broadside shot @ 25 yards or so and put a 158 grain SWC (a hard cast @ 16-20 Brinnel -- they're not hard to find) 1/3 of the way up the body directly in back of the front leg; you'll put that SWC thru both lungs. The deer will die very shortly. You will probably have to do some tracking if the cover is thick but the trail will be short. If you DON"T penetrate both lungs --- as might happen in a quartering shot --- the deer will NOT die quickly and so shame on you. Under these conditions ---- which might require a lot of patience from you to create/wait for ---- your .38 will kill the deer humanely. If you are sitting in a tree stand --- these conditions are tougher to create.

A lot of people hering are are talking about shot placement and using a .22 or other small round and they are all correct, a .38 or .22 is plently big to kill a deer with a well placed shot and a 7mm magnum won't with a poor shot.

The thing no one mentions though is shot opportunity. A more powerful weapon will give you more chances to take a good shot.

IF you are shooting a .38 pistol the only decent shot you have is a perpindicular broad side in the heart/lungs or a head shot (and few can make a head shot with a pistol). Same thing with a .22 although a head shot is a little bit easier assuming the .22 is a rifle. If you get that perfect opportunity and put the bullet where it needs to be a .38 will kill every bit as effectively as a larger gun. However the likelihood of getting a chance to take that shot is small. IF you hunt with a .38 plan to watch a lot of deer walk in mosey around and leave without you having the opportunity to take a good clean shot.

What a more powerful weapon will give you is more opportunity. With a .30-06 or better you can take a deer from virtually any angle and have a very good chance of dropping him with one shot if you put it where you need to because the bullet will shatter bone and will penetrate far enough to get to the vitals. Also a small miss is more likely to be effective.

My uncle got more deer with a .22 than any other gun. However he hunted deer at night from a pickup using a spotlight and shot them in the head exclusively while they were staring at the light. He did this in NJ to boot. It was illegal as hell and not something I would ever do but as a point of fact it was effective. Oh and the reason he used a .22 is not because it was a great deer killer, but rather in terms of noise it was a great gun for illegally shooting at night.

THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL..........

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

If your family was starving and you had no other weapon to hunt with you could probably justify using the .38 for deer.

However, since this is the S&W forum (vs the starving survivalist forum), I suggest you consider this as the perfect excuse to buy another S&W in a bigger and more appropriate caliber. Then you'll feel better about your hunt and you'll have another nice revolver!

Happy T-Day to all!

If you are intent on killing God's creatures you are required to do so as instantly as possible.

That was my philosophy from my first hunt to maybe my last.

I knew of a woman who shot a .243 with a 3X9 power scope from deer stand every year. Every year she managed a wounded and usually lost deer. She was neck-shooting as he "clan" incorrectly believed that was the best "meat-shot".

One day I looked at and used her rifle and scope. It was a cheap 1960's Japanese made scope. Just laying it behind the seat of a pickup truck enroute to the deer stand would cause it to lose it's zero. I bought her a good Weaver 3X9 and had a competent person mount the scope. I didn't do it for her.

A .243, if properly used and conditions are correct could probably kill an elephant with a lung shot. I wouldn't do it.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

"She was neck-shooting as he "clan" incorrectly believed that was the best "meat-shot"."

A lot of old timers I used to hunt with 100 miles north of the Frozen Tundra use neck shots for that reason. They also decided to use a .30-06 or something similar instead of the old .30-30. The reason; any kind of decent neck hit with the 06 yielded a legs up deer. With the .30-30, you needed to be pretty precise or the results were not so pretty good and back then, the old Winchester or Marlin was not known to be a tack driving high precision instrument. It was a tool to put meat on the table and, used correctly, it did just that.

Neck shots on any decent size deer with a .243 better be pretty precise or, as previously stated, the results are not so pretty good. A heart/lung area shot with it is a different proposition.

Bruce