Can anyone recommend a super aaaurate 38 or 38/357 revolver model for bullseye shooting with 38 spec?

That's easy, the K-38/model 14 is easily my favorite. If you need it to be able to shoot .357, perhaps the model 19. If you want to shoot a lot of .357, go with an N-frame, either the model 27 or model 28.

Good luck in any event,
Steve

I completely agree with USBP -- However.

For me the 38/44 outdoorsman is more accurate in .38 than the M14 - but it's "collect-ability" may not make it good for competition.

I found that Dan Wesson M15 was more accurate than the M19 Smith, but not enough to make a difference to me.

IMHO, the name "Target Masterpiece" says it all.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

The model 14. I just shot mine this morning.

K38 or Model 14 would fill your needs easily.

Thanks, guys. Gunbroker has 2 8' K38's listed. guess I better get with it. Is $800 too much for a nice one?

The model 14 is an absolute underestimated revolver. There are even single action only models made. It is an very accurate revolver and the perfect choice for to take part on shootingmatches.

For $800 it would have to be a lot better than "nice". New in box would be more like it.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

My local gunshop, Bart's Sporting Goods in Glen Burnie, MD has a pristine 14-4 on its shelf for $550. Contact either Al or Tom at 410-761-8686 if interested.
Keith

Picked up a mint 6 inch 4 screw k-38 from the late 50s with no box or tools for $600 and I think I bought it a bit early,but I'm happy with it.

Greetings,

Have you shot Bullseye competition before? The reason why I ask is that a revolver is a little more un-wieldly on the firing line when it comes to loading and emptying the spent cartridges. It can be difficult to not "sweep" the line if you're not careful when you drop the cylinder. The RSOs get downright grumpy if you sweep the line. I watched a guy get booted off the property during a match because he just couldn't get it right.
Also another consideration: Can you shoot rapid fire(5 shots in 10 seconds) double action style? I think this alone is why most of the Bullseye shooters have gravitated to semi-autos. Reloads are quick and easy and it's easier to stay on target just having to pull a 3 1/2 lb. trigger.
Whatever, good luck to you in your Bullseye comp.
Hobie

In regards to bullseye also, you only use one hand to hold the gun in all aspects. "Son, they don't call it a hand-gun for nothing, my instructor chided me."

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Much as I like my pre-Model 14, for bullseye, it's easier me me to use my M1911A1. Besides, a bigger bullet means I have a better chance of hitting the X ring!

If your eyes aren't wonderful and you want to score well consider my off the wall suggestion.
Drill and tap a fixed sight heavy barrel K frame. I use a four inch M-65 with a Ultra dot Match dot sight.
I had a 8 3/8 M-14 and after putting the red dot sight on it I realized that longer barrel did nothing for me at 25 yards.
I was also shooting a 5 inch 625 with a dot and switched to a four inch.
Ended up using the M-65 for my league. The red dot can be moved around on the rail to adjust the balance you desire and barrel length is a none issue.
Plenty of fixed sight guns around for far less then M-14's.
Any of them are able to be slicked up real easy and you don't feel bad about beveling the charge holes to make loading easier. And I dare say a accidental double charge of 2.7 grains of Bullseye in a .357 might not ruin the cylinder. I use 38 spl brass and 148 grain DEWC.

I would recomend the late model 67 with the 2 piece barrel. I have a 620 with this barrel system and the accuracy is simply stunning, however as a 357 Magnum the bullet jump may degrade the accuracy a touch. With the 67 you get a dedicated 38 spl. so no bullet jump. As for the specific dash number, I believe that it's the 67-6 but could be wrong about that.

Now, the key to spotting the tensioned barrel is to look at the muzzle flange at the end of the barrel shroud. Take a look at one of the current Night Guards to see what that muzzle flange looks like. Also look for a recessed crown with the rifling ending about 1/8 inch into the barrel.

As for accuracy, IMO you can expect 1/2 inch or smaller groups at 50 yards if your up to it. I've managed some 1/2 inch cloverleafs with my 620 from a rest using a scope and feel a better shooter could do it for a full cylinder. Unfortunately, I tend to get over excited when I see just one hole in the target downrange and start throwing flyers.

Now, the 67 will only have a 4 inch barrel so IMO you will need the help of some optics. Fortunately, Bullseye competitions now allow the use of optical sights. If your eyesight is good enough to see a quarter at 50 yards I would recomend using a Reflex Sight. J P Rifles makes a reflex sight mount for their J Point reflex that sit's close to the bore axis and is quite compact. However, the J Point reflex doesn't have the clearest optics due to the use of an acrylic lens to minimize weight. As a result it's a reflex sight more suited to field use than precision shooting because the dot can be a bit fuzzy. However, J P rifles also offers an adapter plate for the Doctor Reflex that features a glass lens and excellent sharpness for the dot. Below is a link to my report on the J Point reflex showing it mounted to 3 of my revolvers, plus the good and bad about this particular sight. As for the Doctor Reflex, that sight can be a bit of a challenge to find. IIRC CDNN was selling the Doctor about 6 months ago, you may want to take a look and see if they are still selling it.

Purchased 2 more J Point Reflex sights, range report.

Now for one final though on the reloading comments. If you are serious about getting deeply involved in Bullseye competitions I'd suggest that you have your revolver converted to run moon clips. Belows is a link to TK Customs who have had numerous rave reviews on this sight. Just something to look into. As someone with 2 revolvers set up for moon clips I can do nothing but rave about them, you just can't beat the convenience of having 150 or so rounds of ammo preloaded in clips ready to slide into the cylinder.

Now one final word on the 2 piece barrels. As far as I know ALL of them are ECM machined barrels. Which means they work great with jackted ammo but are a bit sensitive to leading when used with cast bullets. From what I've gleaned from this site lubrication is CRITICAL. If you plan on reloading, make sure you check for leading every 50 rounds expended until you figure out how to load for an ECM barrel. I'll also warn you to TOTALLY AVOID the Blaser aluminum hulled LRN, it's not lubricated at all and leaded horribly in my 620 the one time I tried it for 50 rounds. Took me 10 hours of work over 3 days to delead the barrel and the leading was so bad that if I had shot some jacketed ammo before cleaning the barrel I believe it would have either bulged the barrel or caused a full power squib. Yeah, the leading really was that bad.

PS; my go to ammo in my 620 is the American Eagle 130 gn FMJ. Accuracy is superb and it shoots very clean in my 620. However, the most accurate ammo I've ever shot in the 620 was some Speer Lawman 125 gn TMJ, that ammo yielded a few cloverleafs at 50 feet that I could cover completely with a dime. Unortunately, I haven't seen this particular Speer Lawman for sale in nearly 3 years. BTW, it was that Speer ammo that started me out on my quest to see just what my 620 could do and I've come to realize that I will never have the ability to shoot to it's full potential, best I've managed is some occasional 3 and 4 shot groups that keep driving me to try for 5. Now I considering dropping about 400 dollars on a scope with more magnification just to see if that will help. So, I'll warn you right now, if you get an exceptionally accurate handgun the quest to shoot it to it's full potential never ends.

PSS; I'll also admit that I have to cheat to get the results I've managed so far. Simple truth is I'm just not steady enough to shoot the 50 yard Bullseye course, so this old fart pulls a chair up to the bench and shoots from a sandbag using both hands.

Well if you insist on shooting a 38 for 2700 matches . Let me tell you a few things . Hobie above made a few very valid points . I can tell you from bitter experience the 38 will hurt your score far more than help . You have to shoot both a 22 & a 45 . Majority shoot 45 in both CF & 45 matches . Unless you're consistently shooting Master scores don't go off on a tangent . If you just have to OK . It can be done but it sure complicates things . Trigger control is # 1 skill to shoot accurately . Revolvers that are capable ( chambered in 38 special forget 357 ) are S&W K 38 / Model 14 , S&W 38/44 Outdoorsman / Model 23 or Colt Officers Model Match . There are also some European revolvers that are capable too . For auto's you have 1911 38 special conversions , Sig P 240 or S&W 52 . If you also want to shoot Distinguished Revolver Matches get either the K 38 or the Outdoorsman . You can find a used K 38 in good shape for $ 4-450 if you look , a used Outdoorsman in good shape $ 1100 - 1300 . Colt OMM $ 700 up . $ 800 unless it's a collector grade pre model 14 is insanity besides it'll be too nice to lay on the bench while you go down & score / repair / replace targets . My advice is shoot the 45 as you have to master it anyway . When you break Expert have a dedicated 1911 lower made with the same trigger weight / pull as your 45 wadgun . Put a Marvel 22 conversion on it & don't look back . Your 22 scores will suffer initially but it'll help tremendously with your 45 scores in the long run . Why ? Because you only have 1 trigger to learn & master . You're talking about 3 different triggers . Do you get my point ? Now let's get into the accuracy part . Any good 22 pistol is capable of putting 10 shots in 1.5" or less @ 50yds . A well setup 1911 45acp 2" or less . 38 special 3" or less . Attached targets were shot one handed @ 50yds with my 52-2 . Sincerely I hope this helps .
Andy

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I can tell you my choice is the .38-44 Outdoorsman. I have owned alot of .38 Specials over the years, and this one will shoot better than any I have ever owned. Not to mention it won't ever wear out and it loves cast bullets.

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Vaya con Dios

Just my .02 worth, I have not seen anyone shoot a revolver on the line.

You didn't write whether you are a beginner or not. If you are, I would suggest a K22 instead of a .38. Reason why, is that I believe you will find it more of a hassle than not. At least, if you decide you don't want to use a revolver, you will still have a nice cheap plinker(in the long run).

For those of you that are curious about Conventional Pistol(bullseyes). Here is a good link.


The Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Revolver shooters on the line are very rare, but I know of one "newish" shooter who shot revolvers for 22/cf/45 all the way to master classification recently.

That being said, shooting rapid fire with a revolver is very doable. It does requires practice to thumb-cock single handed (much easier with a wiiiiiide extended hammer). One has plenty of time to shoot single action.
If one is determined to shoot double action, then a trigger job to make the double action pull very light is the other solution.

The other concern for revolvers, is that there six (or more) cylinders. Not all cylinders are equal. Bullseye shooters, will sandbag or ransom rest each cylinder, to find which cylinder is the most accurate at 50 yards and only use that one cylinder for slow fire.

Would I recommend you use a revolver if you're just starting out in bullseye? For the 22 portion sure. No issues.
For the CF, maybe not. Only because you have to practice with a completely different gun (recoil, trigger, grip, action are all different) if you use a 1911 for the 45.

If you're wanting to shoot the NRA's Distinguished Revolver program then don't exceed a 6" barrel length. I have a 14-4 that i use for this same purpose and it works well. Are you new to Bullseye or just getting into the specific revolver matches?

Any comments on a NIB Smith & Wesson 14 8 3/8 Inch Nickel "Last Stand lmited edition model?

Yes, limit your barrel length to 6 inches regardless of caliber. There is some theoretical benefits to shooting a longer barrel but they don't hold up in practice. If you are serious about revolver in bullseye then expect to put forth a lot of effort. In return expect a lot of satisfaction. I got back into Bullseye in 2005 after shooting in college in 1974-1978. In between I shot a revolver in IPSC and while never really competitive enjoyed the heck out of it. It also taught me good DA technique. So when I transitioned from my autos to all revolvers a few years back I naturally used DA in all sustained fire. Never learned to thumb a hammer and frankly don't want to learn, except with my Single action guns. Here is my current battery of wheelguns. The second from the bottom is a PC gun I recently got and I'm still getting used to it. the other three, a Model 17 (action work by the Performance Center), a Model 16 converted by Bowen to 38 Special and a Model 625 (action work by my lawyer...don't ask) have worked very well for me. The 38 doubles as my Center Fire and my Distinguished Revolver gun. It shoots 148 wad into 1.5" at 50 yards and American Eagle 158 Round Nose Lead into less than 2" at the same distance. The grips are Nill Hemphill PPC grips, standard size. My hands are large and these work best for DA work. However, if your hands are Medium or Small, the open back model may be more your size.

Does anyone know much about the 14-4 8-3/8" nickel Last Stand model?

Wheeler, you need to create a new thread with your question. People who might be able to help you may not read a Bullseye revolver thread as it doesn't interest them.

Regards,

Hobie

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A 6.5" barrel is the max allowable for Distinguished revolver these days . Hence my including the Outdoorsman . The heavier N frame holds steadier & feels like shooting a 22 .

Duh on my part Wheeler, forgot you're the original poster... Sorry.

Have you any bullseye comp. experience?

Anyway, good luck to you.

Hobie

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I used to own and shoot a M-27 and the N frames can get to be a lot of weight to control with one arm. This was before I started using a optical sight.
K frames have a real nice weight and smaller grip frame, probably why the Model 14/K-38 so successful at a target gun
The big bore M-25/625's weigh less due to the metal removed. I'd still be shooting my 625's but the recoil effects my shoulder more then the lite 38 spl.
Any L frame would also work fine for a Bullseye gun. The lack of accuracy with a .357 chamber is more a theoretical issue then a real measurable issue. Our league has M-19's Pythons and such. The wheels guns are just fun.
.

hen revolvers ruled the so called root os bullseye pistol the Colt Officers Model in 38 Sp. was a favorite. We all shot single action in those days.

When revolvers ruled the so called roost of bullseye pistol the Colt Officers Model in 38 Sp. was a favorite. We all shot single action in those days. A local gunsmith converted them to short single action and added Micro sights. He also made a revolver in 45ACP from Colt New Service 45's with a sleeved comped barrel and short single action.
PS: That was in norhtern NJ in the 1950's and 1960's.

I believe one of the National Bullseye records is still held by a revolver.
Keith

I have to agree with the others on the M14 as an outstanding choice. My Dad's k-38 6" is still the most accurate revolver in the stable. My dad used it on the sheriff's office pistol team in the late 40's and early 50's in bullseye matches and did very well with it.
Randy

I tried shooting the bullseye competition a few years ago. Arthritis in the shoulder and wrist made it impossible, kind of like what happened to my golf game.

I need two handed hold and do OK.

I like accurate guns. My "new to me" 14-3 is a very accurate gun. It rounded out my 19-3 6" and 17-3 collection. I'm shooting clay birds on the hill at the back of the bay at 35-40 yards and hitting with enough regularity to make it interesting. Cleaning up the pieces as well. One of these days I'll shoot some paper with all three to see if there is a noticeable difference in accuracy for me.

I don't have any experience with the 8" guns. Some of my 4" guns are pretty accurate as well.

The 14 is a very good choice for the type of shooting I'm doing most of the time.

At one time I owned a 14-5 with 6" full lug barrel that someone had set up for Bullseye competition, most accurate .38 I ever shot.

I have a M14 too, and while it is accurate and beautiful, I simply shoot my 4" M15 better. Why.........I have absolutely no idea! One would think that the 6" bbl. of the M14 and Target sights would lend themselves to be a better target gun, and in general I would agree with that, but for me the M15 is my go-to target gun. Maybe it's just the fact that the M15 was my Dad's gun......who knows?

Anyway, with all that said, I would agree and give the Target Gun nod to the M14. It was one of Smith's finest!

Chief38

Andy

What grip is that on your Model 52?

Thanks,

George

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For the CF stage of the 2700 match, you can't beat a Walther GSP in .32 S&W Long, at least indoors. Outdoors at 50 yards, well, that's another story.

Bill

Those are Herrett's. I have the same on my 52-2.

Gun stocks by Herrett's Stocks, Inc.

Is that the automatic target stock or the Camp Perry gun stock?

Thanks,

George

Lovely. Is that 8-3/8"? I remember seeing an exceptionally long barrel .38 like that, but maybe longer, and it was so odd to me back when I saw it. I didn't know much about revolvers then and passed it over quickly looking for something magnum. Oh well.

Was there ever a double action smith .38 barreled longer than 8"?

Are you talking about this kind of grip?

This is what the Hemphills look like. The grips you have pictured are much more flared at the bottom than mine are.




Keith

I have been shooting bullseye for over 30 years now ( my local league is 25 yard indoor) and while I have tried my fair share of autos I still find it easier and more enjoyable to run a revolver. The model 14 for example can be bought for probably half the cost of what an auto capable of similar accuracy is. I am not a master ( just barely expert on my best day) but I find I can call my shots and hold the black easier with a revolver than the 1911 for example ( and yes I have had high end bullseye built 1911's)
Single action firing all the way. I know of no master class or higher revolver shooter in bullseye shooting the rapids double action

Spider Pucky! I was all set to offer the OP a like NIB M 14-4/6" that I am willing to sell to someone that truly wanted the 'best' for Bullseye 38 special. AND then I noticed just how old this thread is....... :-(

Sure is a lot of nice looking shooters there..........

I liked the M14, 15 and 19 for light target work with a 38 special.
The light 148 hbwc is usually used but my M19 did a lot better with the heavier 158 lead bullet for some odd reason.

I've been shooting 900 Bullseye matches, first with a Ruger 22/45 with a red-dot sight, now with a Model 17-3.

Hobie1 is correct, however I used a 6" Highway Patrolman and a 6" K-22 for many years and didn't do too bad. Some of my semi-auto friends still talk about it.

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