19 known nickel model 17-3s and some interesting information as to value. Ed 1/19/15

Allen-frame · #1 03-19-2012, 10:59 PM

Information added to original post. January 2015........................

Well, we have seen one sell at auction now.

It is one of the 17-3s with the target trigger hammer and stocks.

We now have 16 documented in this configuration.

And, as per the invoice from G.T. distributors and my one gun

3 with standard hammer ,trigger, and Magna stocks.

Here is the link to the completed auction.

SMITH & WESSON ~ MODEL 17-3 K22...EXTREMELY RARE FACTORY NICKEL w/ Letter....Mfd 1974... V For Sale at GunAuction.com - 13210601

I am pretty excited. I have never owned anything this valuable before.

AND ,, here is another auction from late last year where someone got very lucky

and picked up one of the 17 shipped to G.T. distributors in 1975.

Very lucky I would say...........................................................

http://cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?id=154747

.............................................................................................................

Original post ............................VVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Hello fellow (and gal) forum friends.

I am pleased to say I made the deal on the nickel model 17-3 and
bought it last month.

While doing some research I found out my gun is not one of the listed guns that shipped in March of 1975 , 37 years ago.

Quote from Roy Jinks regarding the ship date of mine.

1K3182 was shipped in July 1974 . To G.T. Distributors Georgia.

There were actually 17 guns in that shipment. All were nickel
with 15 having target hammers and triggers and
2 with standard hammers and triggers.

The serial numbers of that shipment range from

1K3197 to 1K4072.

My one gun precedes these guns by 8 months and is just 15
numbers earlier than the lowest of the 17 that shipped together.

Here are the best shots I can muster of such a shiny gun.
I had to take a lot just to get these few to show up.

These illustrate some of the features of this gun such as
the serial number stamped on the barrel flat and on the cylinder under
the extractor star.
The pinned front sight ramp and big lazy ampersand in the 4 line address.

Regards
Allen Frame

rbmac52 · #2 03-19-2012, 11:12 PM

What a fantastic gun to have in your collection!

bobcat · #3 03-19-2012, 11:14 PM

THat is beautiful, I've enjoyed reading of your find and the pics, and it truly is stunning!

Troystat · #4 03-19-2012, 11:42 PM

A stunner, thanks for posting the pictures, a nickle pistol is hard to photograph.

fat tom · #5 03-19-2012, 11:57 PM

I am soooooooo jealous!

f.t.

Lee Barner · #6 03-20-2012, 12:26 AM

allen, that is just beautiful, but i had to put my sunglasses on just to look at the pics. thanks for sharing. lee

Joe Kent · #7 03-20-2012, 03:19 AM

Very,very neat.

CAJUNLAWYER · #8 03-20-2012, 08:19 AM

I would absolutely have that gun lettered. First gun that late that I have seen having the serial # on the cylinder and barrel.

Vulcan Bob · #9 03-20-2012, 09:23 AM

There is something special about that one,a letter could be very interesting. Thanks for shareing!

long colt frazier · #10 03-20-2012, 09:24 AM

Very nice Allen I am stunned by it's beauty

glenncal1 · #11 03-20-2012, 09:55 AM

I only own one nickle gun (57-1) but I would trade it and many Benjamins for that one. It is way cool, having that box just puts frosting on the cake.

LEO918 · #12 03-20-2012, 10:03 AM

Outstanding Allen. Thanks for sharing.

Dennis The B · #13 03-20-2012, 10:39 AM

By all means, have it lettered. That revolver is just too beautiful not to have it done.

That is one of the prettiest S&W's I've ever seen.

Iggy · #14 03-20-2012, 10:54 AM

That is one fine looking gun. I am sure you have invoked the total jealousy of the entire forum.

28Shooter · #15 03-20-2012, 09:54 PM

Beautiful handgun, congratulations!

Art Doc · #16 03-20-2012, 10:07 PM

Nickel box, but front sight looks wrong. I think it should be blued. All of my nickel guns from the 1950s have blued front sights. Also, no N on rear of cylinder and grip frame.

Worth the $50 to document it. But my hunch is a refinish. Hope I am wrong. Hope you didn't pay fabulous collector price without proof that it is, indeed, fabulous.

Masterpiece · #17 03-21-2012, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxonPig

Front sight looks wrong. I think it should be blued. Also, no N on rear of cylinder and grip frame.
.

SaxonPig,

Allen's Revolver is as "Correct" as they come!! That's including the Front Sight being Nickeled!! Also, if you look at the Photos, you'll see the Cylinder "Is" stamped with an "N" under the Extractor Star just above the Serial Number!!

jesseatamez · #18 03-21-2012, 12:34 AM

I too feel it is a lovely revolver but... I have a few questions, Allenframe says it dates to the 70s yet the Ampersands on the frame and barrel as well as the Maltese crosses beside the calibre rollmarks would seem to agree with Saxon's 50s timeframe. Also, why would the cylinder and barrel be serial numbered if it was made in the 70s after the elimination of the soft fitting department 20 years earlier? Was this gun discussed in an earlier thread, what did Mike Priwer and Lee Jarrett think Saxon? Whether the front sight is correct or not is beyond me, but I must say it is a thing of beauty with the details in the side.

Apologies in advance if my comments/queries are out of turn, I'm just curious about this gorgeous gun.

Jesse

gagunner 2 · #19 03-21-2012, 01:43 AM

Looks like a sideways N forward of the s/n on the barrel.

Allen-frame · #20 03-21-2012, 08:33 AM

Hello all.

The gun shipped to G.T. Distributors in July 1974. And it shipped as a nickel gun.

The man I bought the gun from worked for Smith and Wesson from 1970 to 1974
selling night vision equipment to law enforcement agencies throughout the
south east and Bill Orr the owner of G.T. Distributors remembers him well.

Edited to add ; 1/19/2015 ......................

Another has surfaced sold at auction Target options serial number 1K4721 ...

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/13210601/

SO ,,NOW YOU KNOW ,THERE ARE 17 MORE OF THESE OUT THERE,, GET TO WORK
and go find one. !!

The gun does beg the question ;

When was this run of '18' total Nickel model 17-3s' made?

And why were they made and then sat in the vault ?

Or were they made in 1974 as part of a parts clean up.

Allen Frame

Allen-frame · #21 03-21-2012, 08:38 AM

Oh , and for those of you wondering about the lazy ampersands
on the frame and barrel addresses ;

Yes , lazy ampersands were used into the 1970s. We have had many
cases noted where guns made from parts and even runs had
very old looking lazy As' all over the place.

My friend SNW_19-357 may come along and comment about the
ampersands.

Regards
Allen Frame

10-shooter · #22 03-21-2012, 08:57 AM

Wow..... what a nice gun...

KJM · #23 03-21-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen-frame

Oh , and for those of you wondering about the lazy ampersands
on the frame and barrel addresses ;

Yes , lazy ampersands were used into the 1970s. We have had many
cases noted where guns made from parts and even runs had
very old looking lazy As' all over the place.

My friend SNW_19-357 may come along and comment about the
ampersands.

Regards
Allen Frame

Thanks for that answer. I asked about this on the SWCA side but got no response.. There is more info here on this side! Thanks again for the answer on the ampersand. I was confused about it.

Mark

boykinlp · #24 03-21-2012, 01:49 PM

Fantastic gun.......I'll take it!!..............What do you mean it is not for sale?

Thanks for sharing!!

Allen-frame · #25 03-21-2012, 01:56 PM

How about a model 10 from 1972 with the serial number
stamped on the cylinder and barrel flat???

Allen Frame

YeshuaIsa53 · #26 03-21-2012, 01:58 PM

That one gun and the info would make a nice display by itself.

semperfi71 · #27 03-21-2012, 02:07 PM

Beautiful and congratulations on owning a S&W that indeed should be a "safe-queen" due to its rarity.

snw19_357 · #28 03-21-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJM

Thanks for that answer. I asked about this on the SWCA side but got no response.. There is more info here on this side!

You have to remember that we each have our own interest and/or focus and what may apply to one type or model may not apply to another so doesn't fall into their area of interest. Some may not pay attention to rollstamps at all but look at many things that we would never even consider.
But, one of the great things about the S&WCA is that get a bunch of us together (like the meetings, etc.) and if ‘I’ don’t know the answer, ‘I’ can certainly find you someone there that does!
Doc44 wrote two excellent commentaries (Part I Part II) on the ampersands used on N-frames.

Of course, like everything S&W, what is true for one model may not be true for another model and frame size.

The early “-3’s” are some of the most interesting to me because of the many changes to the rollstamps and ampersands. Just like it varies between different models, it can also differ in the same model number depending on barrel length and finish…
At least for the Model 19, the lazy ampersand on the frame seem to have been used until late 1971 and the mid-2K4xxxx range for the 4” and 6”. They were used until late ’71 on the 2.5” Model 19(-3) too but that was the mid-1K’s, below 1K5xxxx.

The ampersand on the left side of the barrel for a M19-3 went from a pretty modern looking upright ampersand to an “8c” looking one around 1969 (K89...) and was used until ‘71 (2K4...). They went back to the modern one until a neat little “ε” one showed up sporadically around the time the 2.5” M66 came out, 6K6xxxx. By about 1977 the neat little ampersands seemed to have been replaced by the modern upright one we see from then on.
(Of course some of the revolvers with the lazy ampersand on the frame didn’t ship until much later and the “8c” and modern “&” are mixed there for awhile near the end but, you get the idea.

)

The ampersand that Allen has on his M17-3 I haven’t seen on a Model 19 since the K6’s, although I have seen two 4” M66’s in the high 4K’s that oddly enough have a similar ampersand.

Art Doc · #29 03-21-2012, 10:59 PM

1. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought I read the N was missing. It is there. No doubt it is original. On the front sight, mine are blued. If being nickeled on this early gun is correct that is news to me.

2. Masterpiece- Don't call me pig. That is insulting and I don't like it.

KJM · #30 03-22-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snw19_357

You have to remember that we each have our own interest and/or focus and what may apply to one type or model may not apply to another so doesn't fall into their area of interest. Some may not pay attention to rollstamps at all but look at many things that we would never even consider.
But, one of the great things about the S&WCA is that get a bunch of us together (like the meetings, etc.) and if ‘I’ don’t know the answer, ‘I’ can certainly find you someone there that does!
Doc44 wrote two excellent commentaries (Part I Part II) on the ampersands used on N-frames.

Of course, like everything S&W, what is true for one model may not be true for another model and frame size.

The early “-3’s” are some of the most interesting to me because of the many changes to the rollstamps and ampersands. Just like it varies between different models, it can also differ in the same model number depending on barrel length and finish…
At least for the Model 19, the lazy ampersand on the frame seem to have been used until late 1971 and the mid-2K4xxxx range for the 4” and 6”. They were used until late ’71 on the 2.5” Model 19(-3) too but that was the mid-1K’s, below 1K5xxxx.

The ampersand on the left side of the barrel for a M19-3 went from a pretty modern looking upright ampersand to an “8c” looking one around 1969 (K89...) and was used until ‘71 (2K4...). They went back to the modern one until a neat little “ε” one showed up sporadically around the time the 2.5” M66 came out, 6K6xxxx. By about 1977 the neat little ampersands seemed to have been replaced by the modern upright one we see from then on.
(Of course some of the revolvers with the lazy ampersand on the frame didn’t ship until much later and the “8c” and modern “&” are mixed there for awhile near the end but, you get the idea.

)

The ampersand that Allen has on his M17-3 I haven’t seen on a Model 19 since the K6’s, although I have seen two 4” M66’s in the high 4K’s that oddly enough have a similar ampersand.

Thanks again. I had just assumed someone would have jumped on that over on the "other side", and I didn't really want to bother Bill AGAIN with my ampersand questions, but Smith did some confusing stuff!

How about an UPRIGHT ampersand on a 1962 gun???? ( N- Frame)

snw19_357 · #31 03-22-2012, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJM

...Smith did some confusing stuff!

That's what makes it so much fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJM

How about an UPRIGHT ampersand on a 1962 gun???? ( N- Frame)

In the four line?

I know. I have a 19-1 from Nov, 62 and a 28 from Aug, 61 that have that ampersand. Just one of those stamps they used for a bit until it wore out or something.

But we were talking about -3 K-frames. Including other decades and frames will drive you nuts.

KJM · #32 03-22-2012, 07:00 PM

It all drives me nuts, but that is half the fun...

Now if I could RETAIN alot of it.....

fuggetaboutit!

h8rsMadEf4mou5 · #33 03-22-2012, 09:25 PM

That has got to be one of the most beautiful Smith's I have ever seen... simply stunning.

DeathGrip · #34 03-29-2012, 07:42 PM

Dang Allen, That sure is purdy. Nice photos. Great find.

typo99 · #35 03-30-2012, 11:04 AM

What a wonderful revolver. Thanks for sharing.

ImprovedModel56Fan · #36 03-30-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaxonPig

2. Masterpiece- Don't call me pig. That is insulting and I don't like it.

SaxonPig - Don't call yourself pig. That is insulting and I don't like it.

ladder13 · #37 03-30-2012, 12:16 PM

Allen, that gun is simply stunning, I'd love to own something so unique/cool as that, and Chris sure does know his stuff

hsguy · #38 09-13-2012, 10:57 AM

Allen, I am late to this thread but finally got around to taking a few detailed photos of a factory nickel Model 48 I own that illustrate some interesting differences between my gun and yours. The gun shipped to H.H. Harris on April 15, 1960. It is a 4 screw with an 8 3/8" barrel with target hammer and trigger, blued red ramp front sight and white outline rear sight. There are no markings on the grip frame to indicate a nickel finish. The visible rear of the cylinder and barrel flat are not marked with serial number or N but there is an N on the cylinder under the extractor star and the star is marked with the serial number. The gun was listed with having shipped with checkered target grips but came with the smooth targets when I purchased it. I have seen several Harris guns with fancy smooth grips and wondered if he kept a stash to put on his fancy guns? The Model 48, like the K22 was never cataloged in Nickel but Herbie Harris seemed to be able to get most anything he wanted and many unusual Harris guns are seen.

Biggerjigger · #39 03-06-2013, 12:48 PM

My first post here. I also have a K-22 that i believe to be factory nickel. I will get it out later and give the details on it. I also have another large frame in 44 Special that apears to be factory nickle as well. it has a large square target front sight on it.

Biggerjigger · #40 03-06-2013, 03:33 PM

Ok here goes, Mine says K333033 Mod-17 inside, K 333033 on the bottom of the grip, 333033 and a star on the flat under the barrel, 333033 on the cylinder under the ejector star,

On the cylinder arm there is stamped 70823 with a K under that and 70823 is alst stamped on the left side of the frame under the grip.

It has a target hammer and a target trigger and a blued ramp front site with orange insert. Rear site is also blued.

Also on the left side of the frame is a R-N inside a rectangle stamped.

Ity looks exactly like the Model 48 pics above except for the grips.

Allen-frame · #41 03-07-2013, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggerjigger

Ok here goes, Mine says K333033 Mod-17 inside, K 333033 on the bottom of the grip, 333033 and a star on the flat under the barrel, 333033 on the cylinder under the ejector star,

On the cylinder arm there is stamped 70823 with a K under that and 70823 is alst stamped on the left side of the frame under the grip.

It has a target hammer and a target trigger and a blued ramp front site with orange insert. Rear site is also blued.

Also on the left side of the frame is a R-N inside a rectangle stamped.

Ity looks exactly like the Model 48 pics above except for the grips.

Welcome to the forum, bigger.

Just to let you know , the R-N inside the rectangle on the grip frame indicates a re-finish at the factory sometime in the past.

Good luck.

Allen Frame

GM4spd · #42 03-07-2013, 03:13 AM

OP,very nice revolver for sure,interesting read,also. Pete

Allen-frame · #43 01-19-2015, 11:53 AM

New information added 1/ 19/ 2015.

One sold at auction. Not within the known 18 previously documented.

So now there are 19. And there may be even more . Who knows.

SMITH & WESSON ~ MODEL 17-3 K22...EXTREMELY RARE FACTORY NICKEL w/ Letter....Mfd 1974... V For Sale at GunAuction.com - 13210601

Good Luck,

Allen Frame

Pre-29Smith · #44 01-19-2015, 12:00 PM

Allen,

One of the "known 18" sold at auction just a couple of months ago, too. Hammer price was $1,997.50 which includes the buyer's premium.

Cowan's Auctions: The Midwest's Most Trusted Auction House / Antiques / Fine Art / Art Appraisals

Thought it might be interesting to you, sir.

Allen-frame · #45 01-19-2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pre-29Smith

Allen,

One of the "known 18" sold at auction just a couple of months ago, too. Hammer price was $1,997.50 which includes the buyer's premium.

Cowan's Auctions: The Midwest's Most Trusted Auction House / Antiques / Fine Art / Art Appraisals

Thought it might be interesting to you, sir.

Thank you for the info.

Somebody got very lucky to say the least.

The serial # 1K3258 is shown on the G.T. distributors invoice
from 1975.
It shows target hammer and trigger and the auction photo shows magna stocks.

So, still 19 documented.

Regards,

Allen

Florida Guy · #46 01-19-2015, 02:05 PM

Jack The Dog strikes again

boykinlp · #47 01-19-2015, 02:38 PM

WOW!!!!! I believe the winner is a forum member. So, the winner and Allen-frame are in a pretty exclusive club. Very nice.