My wife is only 5 feet tall and has very small hands. We're looking for a medium frame round butt gun she can shoot and even carry some. J frame guns fit her hand well, but they're just not that much fun for her to shoot due to the small mass of the gun and the resulting recoil. I confess, the only J frame we've shot was a scandium frame S&W, but even a steel J frame snubbie is a tiny gun.

One of the pre 1980 K frame snubbies would be ideal (I think)--a M10 or a M64. We own several square butt K frames, I've never seen or held a round butt K frame. Are the round butts noticeably smaller than the square butts?

Thanks,

Paul Moore

If you can, try to find a 3 inch J frame square butt for her to shoot. I have a 3 inch 36 square butt and it is much easier to shoot than the two inch 36 round butt I have.

The square butt seems to tame recoil to some degree; different stocks may help even more.

Of course experimenting with different ammo will help as well.

first, try a steel J frame model 640, 649, 49, 60, etc. steel frame J's will weigh twice as much as scandium airweights.

if its still too light, then try a model 10 or 64 snub nose. different grips wood or rubber will give your wife a better grip and more control.

A J frame might still be a good choice provided it's steel (more weight to help cancel recoil) instead of alloy. The J if comfortable might make a better carry for her than a K. If you need a good opinion on a RB K frame you should search one out and put it in her hand.

Here's a 64, 2 inch and a new 60. The 64 would be harder to find. Try a steel framed j with mild loads, might be what you and your wife are looking for. For comfort and controlability, rubber grips would help. I just like ivory on stainless.

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I have a M37... with the stock wood grips shooting 38 specials is a bear... l changed the grips to Pachmars and noticed a substantial difference. Same with my M60s. They all feel much better in the hand when shooting with rubber grips. I limit rounds to +P, even though the 60-9 will handle .357s.

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

Here you can see the difference in shape between sq. and round. Not too much in terms of how they fit your hand. I think if a sq. butt k felt too big, and rnd butt probably would too. Need to find one and have her hold it. Gun store time.

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I have a Model 10 RB. I have a set of Pachmyers on it. It's the only revolver my wife "Likes" to shoot. I have a J frame Baby Chief and she likes the model 10 a lot better. I even put a Rubber Hogue Mono on the J frame and it was a "no thanks" So My wife agrees with yours.
And as always... let the ladies tell you what they like not what you think they should like. My wife has 4 semi autos of her own. . (2) .22lr, a 380 and a 9mm.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

To all of you, thanks for the input. We have two J frame guns, a 1979 36-1 3" nickel round butt and a 1960 new in the box blue 36 no dash flat latch round butt. The snubbie isn't getting fired, much less carried. I might try the nickel 3" and see how that works for her. It's somewhat collectible, because we have the original box, paperwork sealed cleaning kit, etc. but it's been fired a little. Then maybe I'll look for a J frame square butt (the only one of those I remember seeing recently was a 37 Airweight--still too light).

We used to have an M&P340 no lock (the scandium frame gun). We literally put 19 rounds through it and sold it. It was absolutely brutal to shoot, even shooting .38 sp. It scared my wife, so I decided to look for a K frame snubbie. Maybe we'll take the nickel J frame next time we go to the range and see what it's like.

Thanks again,

Paul

My wife also has several guns of her own, but we both believe in keeping it simple. I shoot a lot, but still carry a revolver, because they're pretty foolproof. There was a panel discussion a handful of years ago with some of the nation's leading "experts" on conceal carry, use of force, etc. When asked what they personally carried, it was shocking how many of them carried a revolver in this age of semi automatics.

The 10 RB and 64 RB still intrigue me. I may look for one simply because we don't have a snubbie K frame.


Paul Moore

I second the notion that a K-frame snub is a good idea for this. Not the only good idea, but certainly a workable one. I have a Mod. 10 snubby (2"), which I like VERY much. The extra weight, vs. a J-frame, is an advantage. K-frame snubs are not the most common variant, however.....so locating a good one MIGHT be a problem.

The one caveat I see for this is grip size - even with a round butt frame, many grips may be too bulky for someone with small hands (on a K-frame). I have a couple of friends, husband and wife, that BOTH have small hands. They have solved this issue, on his Mod. 10, by using the Pachmayr Compac Professonal grip. This grip is relatively thin and compact, so it works well for small hands. The standard S&W Magnas are not too big (at least they don't create a problem with distance to the trigger). But, the ergonomics are terrible, so they are not very good IMO, without a grip adapter. That might not work well for many (it SUCKS for me). That leaves something like a custom grip. You certainly could get a suitable wood RB grip and thin each panel down as needed. That, or the Pachmayrs I mentioned above, would seem the best solution, in my view.

As regards the square butt frame, I do NOT think it very suitable for small hands. The problem is the HUGE jutting bottom rear portion of the frame, which creates lousy ergonomics at best. The design is absolutely idiotic, really. In fact, I hated it so much that I felt compelled to "round-butt" my Mod.10 snubby.....that is, cut down the rear of the frame to resemble the round butt design. Now, with a set of proper wood grips, altered to fit the modified frame, it works well. Failing that, though, I would not have kept the gun. I can see that a square butt K-frame, in the hand of a person with "very small hands", would be a VERY poor fit.

It's funny...there are very few round butt M10's in blue, but most nickel and most M64's seem to be round butt's. There are several online for sale right now, but I'd like to have my wife hold one before committing to it.

You and I are in agreement on the shape of the K frame Magna Sq butt grips. The actual size fits my hand, but the rear lower portion that flares out is uncomfortable. That's another reason I like the looks of the round butt.

The problem with a trip to the gun store is that most LGS's carry only new guns. I refuse to buy a new S&W gun. As a matter of fact, the only revolver I have without a pinned barrel is a 586 no dash. They didn't have pinned barrels.

Thanks for the input,

Paul

My wife is small as well. We have a m-65 3" RB for her, and a Beretta M-21-a .22LR, which is great pocket/purse gun. We have Hogue bantams on the M-65, and they actually work for both of us! For us, they were the answer. Flapjack.

Just to suggest another approach, consider a Colt D frame in .38 Special...i.e., the Police Positive Special, the Detective Special, the Diamondback. The D frame is somewhat larger than the S&W J frame, yet smaller then the K frame. The D frame Colts are six shooters, too.

The Diamondback is particularly nice...and may be found in 2.5, 4 and 6 inch barrels. Visually, it looks like a scaled down Python, with adjustable sights and a full underlug. They're pricey, but great guns.

The more workman like Police Positive, typically with a 4 inch barrel, is a more in the "service" revolver class.

If a fixed sight snub is desired, the Detective Special would be an option. If weight is an issue, the alloy framed versions of the Det. Spl. (the Agent and the Cobra) are also options.

Obviously, none ofthese guns are currently manufactured, but, if you are ok going the used gun route, these are still viable choices for someone looking for a medium-small framed .38.

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FOR ME, the only J frame is a light weight 2" Centennial type, because it is almost never a primary; I think I have carried my 442 as a sole gun for a only a few days in the last 15 years. Light J frames with any stout load tend to be unpleasant. I'm a real fan of plain old target wadcutters in a J frame because of the place into which that revolver fits in my life. A standard level SWC is also a decent choice and an adequate reload.

She might find a RB 2-3 inch K frame workable, but I would still use the same loads. I think the 3" would be easier to shoot well due to the sight radius, but a woman that size might have a real hard time carrying it as a concealed piece, between her size and women's clothing. Even crude testing showed that there was almost no way my wife could carry a 242/296 and conceal it; as a realistic matter the 442 is the choice for her.

There are two different and somewhat incompatible dynamics to consider - size, and shootability. Small guns are less pleasant to shoot, and harder to shoot well. The first can be improved with ammo choices. The second may require testing various grips. While it is not as good for pocket carry, the CT 405 laser grip has a lot to be said for it.

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NHI, 10-8.

I won't weigh in on which firearm to buy, but rather tell you how I solved my wife's small hand issue on a k-frame. I put a Tyler-T on her k-frame snub, and that solved the small hand issue. We tried rubber grips and about every wood grip, and saw good results, however, once the Tyler-T went on that took care of the problem right away.

My friend just taught his wife to shoot with a 4" K frame mod 64, although square butt, and it worked out well. I think it's a good medium size. The K frame 3" really has a nice balanced feel, and is one of my personal favorites.

As mentioned above, if recoil is a problem, get her some comfy grips, and maybe find her her a mild round. Here's another photo of the K frame square/round comparison. The round butt does make it a little more carryable.

Josh P

S&W made a nice three inch heavy barrel model 36. I'll bet she would like that.

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My wife has small hands so I bought her a 642. With heavy loads, there is too much recoil so I load target 148gr. hbswc rounds for her to shoot.

I let her shoot my M66 snubbie and now it is her favorite handgun.

The K frame round butt is smaller than a square butt. I also like the Pachmayr Compac Professonal grips. They have an open backstrap and fit most smaller hands.

.38 special wadcutters are a good option. A hit with a wadcutter beats a miss with something more powerful!!

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I'll bet if you ever let your wife shoot that 36-1 round butt, you'll never get it back. I found one (but mine was blued) a few weeks ago. What a gem! Even shooting Remington's "FBI" load was a breeze (in terms of recoil) and it shoots nicely to POA. That heavy barrel apparently adds enough mass to tame the tiger. As a plus, I really liked the broad sight picture and broader front sight of the 36-1. The gun I found is slated as a birthday present for my wife later this year.

PC

Thanks, again, for all the great input. I'm pursuing a sq butt J frame or a round butt K frame--maybe both. We don't have a round butt K frame, so I may buy one even if we get the sq butt J frame.

Paul

Yes. Don't forget that even for small hands, stock S&W grips are usually nonfunctional, but are easily corrected with a grip adapter. Another poster mentioned Pachmayr Compac Professionals ("Professional" is Pachmayr for "uncovered backstrap"), which are often an excellent choice. I wouldn't rule out a steel J-frame revolver, either, including possibly a square butt. A steel J frame is NOT a tiny gun in my hand, and it may not be in your wife's hand, either.

Best thing would be to try a gun in her hand with the right grips, either at the range, where she can actually shoot it, or at a local gun store, where there may be a larger selection of grips.

A 4in.P&R model 12 rd.butt,i think are a tad slimmer.
Dick

Many years back, I used to recommend the 3in HB J frame .38's for female investigators. All save one preferred them and shot them well...that one preferred her M19 with full magnum (125gr Federal #357B) loads...and she never shot less than 95%. She did, however, carry a 3in J off duty.

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

I also have small hands. As others have already suggested, I would try a 3 inch steel J frame with Pachmayr Compac (available for both square and round butt) or a round butt K frame with Pachmayr Compac Professional. Those two combinations work great for me.

ditto most of those comments...

I would tell you there's very little size difference between a square and round butt K frame. The grip will make all the difference. The SB seems to have better balance to me.

Ditto the comments about trying a steel J frame before moving to a snub version of a K. Also, try different loads. IMHO; The ammo and grip are going to affect the felt recoil - possibly more than the J vs. K issue.

Remember also; you can always put a SB conversion grip on a RB. I have these on a couple K's and an L.

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But then, what do I know?

I have a medium sized hand but short fingers. What worked the best for me is the factory grip on my 3" model 10-5 with a grip adapter, either a Tyler T grip or a BK grip. Anything that covers the back strap prevents my finger from reaching the trigger.

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Wheel guns are real guns too.

My wife has been happier with the Mod.10 snub than with her nickeled Mod.37 SB,and shoots it much better.Says it fits her hand and feels more natural.
The K's are better for me than the J's too.Of course every individual has their own perceptions,and as they say,perception is reality.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

My wife is 5'1" with a very petite build yet she has no problem shooting this 3" Model 10.

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"Shall not be infringed"

Trying on gun grips and sizes can be accomplished at a good gun show. There are almost always plenty of new guns to try plus look for used revolvers to pick up and "fondle".. But the bottom line is she will know what she likes. Your opinion is somewhat irrelevant...trust me I'm talking from experience

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

The 3- 1/8 in Ruger SP 101 is a little heaver than a 3 in S&W M60 and fits small hands well. I think that its just a matter of finding the right ammo for the shooter. I shoot 148 gr wad cutters with a minimum charge of WW231 in both guns and they are very mild.

rat

More great comments. Thanks to all. The first couple of steps have been taken. I found a clean 36 no dash snubbie RB (diamond grips and all) with a Tyler T. Since the Tyler T is removable, we'll see which way fits her better.

Just to do some cheap practice with, I found a pristine 34-1 Sq Butt with a 4" barrel, all original paperwork, cleaning kit and box that should be here the end of this week. That will be a great gun for Joyce to practice with--small gun that should fit her hands fairly well and no recoil. She can compare the J frame RB and SB and see which one she likes the best!

We'll see what happens.

Paul