The ultimate defense K-frame?

[PALADIN85020]

I think the K-frame revolvers were "just right" in so many respects. The .357s were adequately powerful. They weren't so heavy as to preclude constant carry. They could be carried discretely without too much trouble. In stainless configuration, they were easier to clean and maintain.

A few years ago I set out to find what I hoped would be the ultimate K-frame for defense purposes. At long last I pinned down and acquired this one. It's a 4-inch Model 66-1, which was the last of the pinned and recessed 66s. The icing on the cake is that this one was as new in the box, and had all the bells and whistles that S&W could put on a standard revolver at that time. It has a red ramp front sight, a white outline rear sight, and stunning smooth presentation target stocks. According to Roy Jinks, this one left the factory in May, 1978. Interestingly, the box is not grey but blue, and has the pre-Bangor Punta markings.

I think that this is arguably the best of the best - the ultimate expression of the Smith & Wesson K-frame defense revolver.

John

[Lobster Picnic]

It can't be the ultimate defensive K-frame if it's too beautiful to shoot!

Who wants to think about carbon buildup on the cylinder face during a gun battle?

I would go with the ugly but effective 3" M13.

[kudzu3]

I agree, it just don't get no better.

[PALADIN85020]

Originally Posted by Lobster Picnic

It can't be the ultimate defensive K-frame if it's too beautiful to shoot!

Surely you jest. The first thing I did was treat it to a class A action job by Nelson Ford in Phoenix.

Next, I put a couple of cylinderfuls through it at 7 yards double action.

My guns aren't just lookers; they are shooters.

John

[SmithToter]

I was re-arranging things in the safe and pulled out my P&R 66 snubbie with Ahrends cocobolo grips.

I was still impressed at how balanced and "right" it feels in my hand!

These are just outstanding revolvers.

[wbraswell]

Personally, I've never seen anything ugly about a 3" M13.
Sweet gun, Paladin.

[Desert Rat 416]

Beautiful find - congratulations. I love all my Smith's, but have that special fondness for the 66 that sat on my hip for a decade - that now being...well its been a few "lustrums." I never felt outgunned by anything you shoot with one hand.

As for the 66 wear factor - thousands of rounds fired, thousands of holster hours, exposure to every weather condition, sweaty palms, scuffles, jumped fences, thickets, coffee spills, donut crumbs, (etc., etc.). But with a little TLC, slap on the original grips (never carried!), and it looks about like the day I first took it out of the box. You're right, it don't get much better than that.

[smitty_bs]

+1 on the 3" M13. I just bought my second one and pick it up tomorrow. Nothing balances in my hand better.

[dave_g]

That is a great looking revolver.

I had Nelson Ford do a "basic combat" job (trigger job, lower port and flare, sights) on my Springfield 1911 back in 1989. Excellent work and he did it fast. I still have it and it still shoots great.

[Old Corp]

Just remember (those that are old enough...), that in 1978, M66's were absolute cutting edge in carry revolvers.
I was working p/t at an area LGS about that time and recall that they were in very short supply. The word was that nearly all of M66's being produced were for LE contract sales. They just were NOT in shops.

In 1981, my old agency phased out the Colt Troopers and Trooper Mk III's and adopted the 4" M66. I recall being PUMPED - we were getting a GREAT new duty weapon.
Carried it 'til about '89-'90 when we went to autos (M1076).
Only thing done to my M66 was installing the smooth, medium-width 'Combat' trigger. A policy violation, but no one ever knew, even after the gun was taken as evidence in a shooting I was in.
It came back to me, with a case number electro-engraved on the grip frame under grip panels.
Still have it and it will be a hard one to let go of........

[computerdynamics]

She's a real beauty!! I guess i'm an idiot but I would immediately take her for trip to the range!! Nice, very nice!
Tony

[DRYHEAT]

John, I agree with all you have stated re: M66. I just like 'em a tad shorter...

[StatesRightist]

2 1/2" Model 19 fan here. It just feels like a snub should to me.

[sheepdawg]

Love my two Model 66s, they're hard to beat!.

[PALADIN85020]

Originally Posted by DRYHEAT

John, I agree with all you have stated re: M66. I just like 'em a tad shorter...

Nothing wrong with that! Here's one of mine:

John

[palmetto99]

Yep, the models 19 or 66 with a 4" barrel would get my vote.

[GF]

Like you, I've always had a soft spot for the stainless 4 inch in in a magnum caliber...



... and I try to keep one or two examples on hand for the " ultimate K-frame " carry and range gun.
I don't care how many fancy high dollar semi-autos are on the line at the range, if your shooting a Mod 66 some young man will walk up and say, "Hey, whatcha' got there !?!"

GF

[ordy]

That's a real beauty..as are all the others shown here. I have a love affair going with the K frame revolvers. Nothing feels better in my hand. Chief among them are the 66/19. My 66 is a transitional model. Chambers are recessed but barrel is not pinned.

[rromeo]

I have a 66-7, but I will have a -1 one of these days. That right there is a beauty.

[jdh]

Originally Posted by smitty_bs

+1 on the 3" M13. I just bought my second one and pick it up tomorrow. Nothing balances in my hand better.

+ another. The 13/65 also have the advantage of not having those flimsy adjustable rear sights to bend, break, or fall off at the most inopportune time.

[Badquaker]

my 66-1. I love the balance.

[C Islander]

Great looking 66! As much as I like my 66 no dash, my 3" 65 gets my vote as the "ultimate".

[pete950]

Any of the 2 or 3 inch fixed sight K frames get my vote.

[jframe]

Originally Posted by DRYHEAT

John, I agree with all you have stated re: M66. I just like 'em a tad shorter...

I LOVE those smooth Magnas! I wish I had a set like that for my snub 19-3, and my nickel 13-3 three inch too.

[j38]

Hard to argue with your logic, John. I have one that shipped in November of '78. It shoots like a laser but wears standard target grips - not the beauties yours wears.

Jerry

[chud333]

I like your model choice but i'd opt for the 3" myself.
But you can't go wrong with a model 19 or 66. My 66-3


Chuck

[OIF2]

I've had this one awhile but haven't shot it much. It went back to the factory once for an action tune and a post front sight. After reading this thread, I guess it's time to put some rounds through it.
Bob

[bananaman]

The nib Model 66 is beautiful! But to me a gun has to be a shooter. I traded off a 65-3, which is a great carry gun also. The new owner loves it and carries it. Enjoy your fine Smith! Bob

[brucev]

Gorgeous revolver. Wonderful thread. My first S&W revolver was a 4" 19-3. Over the next 30 years other than .22's, I only owned a single K-frame... a 15-3. Earlier this month I found and bought a 4" 66-3. I have been deeply impressed with it. I like N-frames. I have several that I enjoy shooting. I've always thought a 4" .357 Mag. Model 28 is just about the ideal revolver. But, this 66 is really working on my opinion. Except with the rompenist stompenist .357 Mag. loads, it is just simply ideal. It is one of the few SS guns I've ever bought, other than a few 686's. The more I handle and use it, the more I find myself gravitating to it for everyday use, going to the range, etc.

[coiler666]

Mr Paladin, as always you have beautiful pix of some fine pistols sir! That said, while i agree with most of the comments, i also think for an "Ultimate defense" revolver, ya need fixed sights...but as my ex wife sez, ya been wrong before Mike

[18DAI]

Great thread Paladin. I consider the pre lock 66's to be the finest revolvers S&W made. A fine, elegant, good looking handgun with a great trigger, right out of the box. Seems they have since forgotten how to make such a handgun.

I've bet my life on a 66-2 for years. I can't praise a handgun more than that.

Beautiful pics too! Regards 18DAI

[M29since14]

I couldn't agree more. That is a great looking 66. I have one very similar with the Border Patrol or Combat trigger (installed later, of course). As Old Crop says, in their day, they were "cutting edge" and tough to get, for the ordinary guy.

[fyimo]

Because I like the 38 special round I go with my snub nose model 64 no dash.

[semperfi71]

Great buy and pic of the orignal poster. And great guns from the others as well.

I have all kinds of K-Frame .38s and .357s. And one is a M66-1 2 1/2inch.

I'm not a police officer and have never fired in self-defense.

But I'd take any fixed sight 3 inch K-Frame .38 Special or .357 Magnum as the "ultimate" defensive handgun. Especially in stainless. Easily concealed if necessary.

A K-Frame .38 Special can be handloaded with a 158 grain lead bullet to a safe 1000 fps. That is a very good defensive load.

All of my fixed sight K-Frames in either caliber shoot to point-of-aim with 158 grain loads and 148 grain wadcutter loads. Some will print a few inches high but windage is always good. That's at 25 yards.

I have also found that .357 148 grain target reloads (mine) will print in the same area that 158 grain .357 Magnum loads do.

I really like all S&W revolvers in all frame sizes but I would have to say that if I had to have just one (never gonna happen) it would be a M65 3 inch.

[geoff40]

Outstanding gun porn in this thread!

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I'll throw my own unorganized thoughts in for whatever they might be worth to someone.

First off, the decision lies ultimately with the individual. Hand sizes vary, circumstances vary, probably a few other things, too. At first glance, Model 13 seems hard to argue with, but the 2.5" Model 19 has arguments in its favor, as well. I have a 2" Model 15 which simply seems faster to aim than my 2" Model 12. Both shoot to POA, and I'm happy with the ammo with which they do so, so adjustable sights are not an issue. Strangely enough, the 15's sights have NOT worn a hole in any cover garments (unlike the 1911 I used to carry), nor have the 19's that I used to carry. But I cannot escape the fact that I can shoot a little faster with the Model 15. Both the speed of sight acquisition and the wear or snag factor might easily be different for someone else, so, as right as my choice might be for me, someone else's different choice might also be right (for him).

Grips should be obvious. What's best varies with the individual. As soon as I opened the thread and saw those factory grips on the Model 66, I knew that it was NOT the ultimate K-frame revolver for defensive purposes, at least not for me. Possibly not for anybody. There are several really good designers and producers of grips out there, and, historically, S&W has not been one of them (I am NOT including recent efforts, because I have not tried them and, anyway, I am not ready to disagree with a personal friend who recently designed a series of S&W-produced grips). Myself, I like Hogue, Tyler, Pachmayr and Rogers, but other folks with different hands have equally good reasons for rejecting those and accepting others. Some may even like factory grips!

I am not even sure about cartridge choice. For years, I carried a 2.5" Model 19, but for seven years I worked in an office and felt that a .357 was questionable in terms of penetration and just plain dumb in terms of noise. So I carried a 4" Model 10 (round-butted at home), and never felt unarmed. I have never really gotten back to .357. I know that it's pretty much better, except for noise and maybe recoil, but I just haven't felt all that disadvantaged with .38 Spl 158gr +P.

To me, the biggest attraction of the K frame is that it can generally be made to fit my hand very well, either by getting or making a round butt and using factory grips with a Tyler, or by using Rogers/Safariland grips on a square butt. Other folks with larger hands are certainly free to post an Ultimate Defense N-frame thread.

[ruger-p94]

Just got back from the range with the M13-3, still warm and dirty after a good day. She is mighty pretty with a touch of carbon on the cylinders

[Snapping Twig]

I tend to think an SD revolver is magnum capable, fixed sights and 3".

RB doesn't hurt either.

I give you the 65-5.



I also believe something similar in a .44 works even better, magnum or special.

[cornfed83]

Sorry I can't do pictures right now but I've got a M19-3 and a M19-6 both 2.5" barrel and both wearing factory round butt combat finger grooves. I'm sure I never will but I really like the idea of carrying both at the same time.