I have 3 M33's, this being the newest vintage. One of the others is also a -1 gun, vintage 1962. The elder of the group, handed down from my grandfather, is a M33 from 1959.

Here is my question, purely out of curiosity: Why does the serial number on the 1973 gun start with a letter R?(R69XXX) When did this start and does the letter bear any significance?

My information about the -1 is that this signals the change from I frame to J frame in 1961, but I should ask the resident gurus here if that is accurate. I've gathered that from several sources, but the bad thing about bad info is it gets repeated more often than the good stuff.

I look forward to the comments, and thanks in advance!

IDVague,

Welcome aboard and glad you're stirring up a conversation about the little guys of the S&W revolver family! If you go to the 1896-1961 forum, there have been several (many) postings on the subject of the I- to J-frame transition. Frequent poster Hondo44 has been one of the most prolific, complete with pix and detailed descriptions and I wouldn't pretend to know as much about those things as he does. I'm sure he or one of the other knowledgeable enthusiasts here will chime in with some more specifics about the 33 vs 33-1 changes.

As for the alpha-numeric (in your case, the additional "R") designation, this is simply a combination of the need to give each arm a unique serial number without having numbers wrapped around the whole gun, and changing Federal regulations about that time that demanded this unique identification of each firearm. It neither adds nor detracts from the value except to make it easier to identify.

One odd feature about the 33-1 is that although it is chambered for the shorter 38 S&W cartridge, it has the full length frame and cylinder for 38 Special cartridge. The logic of using the somewhat less powerful cartridge is lost... and the model was short lived probably for that very reason; the Model 36 displaced it and its Model 32 fraternal twin.

HTH ~ Froggie

According to factory historian Roy Jinks, the R serial number prefix began in January, 1969, and the R number series includes other J frames including the Model 60. What does the 'R' mean? Probably nothing, just a way to start a new serial number sequence with something they hadn't used in their serial numbers before. The Models 31-1 and 30-1 got serial number sequences beginning with an H at the same time, and the H probably doesn't mean anything special, either.

Your question about how the 33-1 arrived is correctly answered by the use of the J frame instead of the I frame. Production of the J frame version of the Model 33, the Model 33-1, began in 1960. The M-33, also known as the .38 Regulation Police, had been built on the slightly smaller I frame prior to this. For a while, from 1950 to 1960, S&W made small frame revolvers in both I and J sizes, but phased out the I frame and switched their little revolvers chambered for .38 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .22 LR from the smaller frame and shorter cylinder I to the slightly bigger J, to standardize and streamline production. From a pure gun size perspective, there was no good reason to keep making both I and J, when the J worked just fine for all the cartridges involved. The I was too small to chamber the .38 Special, while the J was (in fact was designed for the .38 Special) big enough for all 4 cartridges.

The other I frame to J frame guns included the Model 32 .38 S&W, the Models 30 and 31 .32 S&W Long, and the Models 34 and 35 in .22 LR. Swiched to the J frame, they became the Models 32-1, 31-1, 30-1, 34-1 and 35-1 when built on the bigger frame. J frame guns never built on the I frame, like the Models 43 and 51, never got -1 model designations.

The Model 33-1 and the shorter barreled Model 32-1 were both discontinued in 1974. Demand for handguns chambered in .38 S&W had dwindled to the point it made no economic sense to keep making them.

Thanks for the replies, guys. As long as I've had these guns and as many times as I have held them, looked at them, and compared them, I never noticed any difference in the cylinder length. I had to measure them to see it the first time and now I can see it from across the room in the dark. It is really astounding, but it's only about 1/8" difference. Still, it is easily discernible now.

As for the 33-1 cylinder being large enough for the .38Spl., I had to try it and it wouldn't fit in mine. My M67 .38Spl. still has a longer and obviously larger cylinder than the M33-1, so I took a round from it and tested it in the smaller gun, but it would not load.

I too love these little guns and I hope to someday acquire a M30, M31, M32, M34, and M35 as well.

I should have warned you about that part! The first two are fairly easy to find, the third a little harder, then the last two are out there but probably more expensive, especially the very last (the Model 35.) Don't forget the Model 36 (Chief's Special) and the Model 37 (Airweight Chief.)

Then again, you might want to look for the Baby Chief as well as the "real" I-frames with the flat rather than coiled mainsprings. To me they are the tiny jewels of the S&W 20th Century revolvers. Don't worry, there will always be some more to look for!

Froggie

I have a M36 (1961) and I have a deal worked out for a M37 Airweight of a similar vintage (no exact date yet) from a friend I hope to see in the next few weeks. He also has a M34 that we are trying to come to terms on. I'm not a huge fan of the M38, but I'll track one of those down one day as well.

"As for the 33-1 cylinder being large enough for the .38Spl., I had to try it and it wouldn't fit in mine. My M67 .38Spl. still has a longer and obviously larger cylinder than the M33-1, so I took a round from it and tested it in the smaller gun, but it would not load."

It isn't the cylinder of your M-33-1 that is "too short for the .38 Special," it is the chambers in that cylinder. They are bored to fit the shorter, fatter .38 S&W cartridge case. Your .38 Special cartridges won't "fit in the cylinder" of the Model 31-1 .32 Long or the Model 34-1 .22 LR, either.

[QUOTE=BUFF;136870862
It isn't the cylinder of your M-33-1 that is "too short for the .38 Special," it is the chambers in that cylinder. They are bored to fit the shorter, fatter .38 S&W cartridge case. Your .38 Special cartridges won't "fit in the cylinder" of the Model 31-1 .32 Long or the Model 34-1 .22 LR, either.[/QUOTE]

Yeah....I hadn't checked the .32 or .22 yet, so thanks for saving me the trouble. Oddly enough they slide right through my single shot Winchester 20 gauge. I wonder why that is?

I love how great minds really do think alike! I too was bitten by the J-frame bug, and have been working to complete the same set! I'm missing the model 32 Terrier, but have found all the others. Here's some pics for inspiration:

pre-model 30:

model 31-1s:

model 33-1:

model 34-1:

model 35 no dash:

model 36-1:


Also, don't forget the other snubbies besides the model 32!

From top: 2" 36, 2" 31-1, 2" 34-1

Hey Nframe_is_no1,

It looks like you're beginning to weaken on the stand that gave you that name! That's a nice assortment of J-frames, and if it's any encouragement, that 33-1 shouldn't be as hard to buy ($-wise) as some of the others... just harder to actually find! Their popularity (or lack thereof) which led to their demise has not been fully appreciated among the collecting community.

BTW, tell me about the grips on that 36-1. Is that wood with all that grain, or are they something synthetic? I've never seen that much figure stuffed into that little bit of wood! Which set of grips are original to that sweet looking Model 35? Does it shoot as well as it looks?

All in all, it's a "magnificent obsession" that has seized you! Let's hope nobody ever finds a cure.

Regards,
Froggie

Froggy,
You are absolutely correct. I have greatly weakened in my original obsession with only N-frames and have broadened my S&W horizons! The grips on the 3" 36-1 are factory J-frame service grips I bought at a LGS from their used grip bin. The 36-1 came to me with its original wood stocks and a pair of goodyears, but I used the pictured stocks, because I too have never seen another pair with grain or coloring like that. They are indeed wood. I can't tell if anything was done to them after they left the factory, or if the grain is just really dark. As for the model 35, the original grips are the smaller service stocks seen sitting next to the gun. They are numbered to the revolver. I added the J-frame target stocks to better fit my large hands. The model 35 does shoot as good as it looks. It can hold less than 2" at 25 yards with WalMart bulk 550 pack Federal ammo! BTW, it is the model 32 I am missing. I think you meant to say 32-1 and not 33-1. I have a 33-1. It is pictured. Thanks for your kind words and comments!