In 1971, when I was just starting out in law enforcement, our Department-approved duty revolver was the Model 10 with a four-inch tapered barrel. Most of the 10's issued then were in the 10-5 series with a few post-war 5-screws floating around. Aftermarket grips (then) were either the S&W Target Grips or the Shooting Star Target Grips of Herrett. There could have been a couple of other choices of aftermarket grips but my memory doesn't permit. I do remember the speedloaders were made of rubber and didn't release your cartridges smoothly so we used dump pouches primarily. But that four-inch tapered barrel Model 10 was "the" standard issue. I remember some of the older cops drawing a reference to the NYPD using that same service revolver and the thinking among the leadership was that if the NYPD was using it "we should too", which is the greatest compliment an agency and its officers can receive. We continued to carry the Model 10 until around 1974 when we went to the Model 66, along with many other PD's.

Our Model 10 had been with us for many years brfore the change. A few years ago Vivas & Sons of NYC was selling some ex-NYPD Model 10's in the four-inch tapered barrel configuration and my question to the "fine" retired NYPD Officers of this forum is this;

Was the tapered barrel model still popular in the early 70's or had the heavy barrel Model 10 completely took over?

During my rookie year (1971) the Model 10, Colt Metropolitan MK III, and the Dan Wesson Model 11 were the "chosen-few" of the NYPD. Was the Model 10, then, still avaliable in the tapered barrel, or had the heavy barrel version took center-stage?

During the early 70's terrorists under the Black Panther banner were murdering police officers especially our brothers in New York City and other large cities. We had our share of civil unrest too but nothing on the scale that was facing the NYPD, You guys, that worked there in that time period, deserve extra recognition and accolades for standing up to that "evil" and overcoming it. Thanks for a job well done!

David

I was never a NY police officer, how ever I am familar with that model. My brother inlaws father was with the Cleveland Ohio motorcycle Police in the early seventies. He carried a model 10-6 heavy barrel.I have that same gun of his in my gun safe. It is stamped CPD on the left side, and it has some serious road rash. I also had an uncle who was Cleveland policeman,during the mid to late sixties he carried a snub nose. I think once the heavy barrels became popular alot of departments changed over.

I have one of the old S&W M&P revolvers you refer to. This one is all original and still has the original numbered grips. I have a S&W letter and documentation from Rivas saying who it was issued to in 1946. Neat old gun.
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Lorin

Hi,
The tapered barrel was still around in the 1970s. I have a 10-7 tapered barrel 4 inch. Even though the heavy barrel was getting popular the tapered barrel was around even in 1979. That is when mind was produced.
Howard

I have one too
SV Serial Number, original stocks. I also have a note from RM from the ledger. Another Forum member had one also.

I havent read that they used M66s before. I know that they allowed nickle at one time, but that went away after an incident.


Theres quite a few retired and active MOS here so I am sure someone will chime in

Dabney, what area did you work? Some places were shall I say rough during that time

I've seen Model 10s being toted by the NYPD no that many years ago-I was very surprised,as most carry Glocks..Some 10s may still be carried.

You might find this a good read

I think its from 2004

The New York Times > New York Region > In New York, Old-School Officers Swear By the Vanishing .38

Nice piece. I love revolvers because I trust their reliability if the dung hits the ventilation device, but I confess the old-school coolness appeals to me more and more in my old age.

I have a standard-barrel 10-5, by the way, and love it. It's my head-of-the-bed gun.

When I was with Baltimore PD, 75-82, I know that NYPD still had lots of the tapered barrel models, and were still using the old holsters that were known as NYPD models. We had the heavy barrel 10's until a few years later when they went to Glock 9mm.

I served in the NYPD from Oct 1969~Jan 1990. My recollection is, by the early 1970s only heavy barrel model 10s were available from the Equipment Section (the only place 99% of the dept members would buy their handguns).

Hope this helped.

Rich

My Dad served in the NYCPD [check the shield & patch, it's not NYPD] from 1941 until his retirement in 1978. That's right- 37 years! His duty revolver was a pre-10 M&P which he purchased used from a retiring MOS. S&W lettered this revolver as shipping April 17, 1930. It is likely that there were many used early S&W's serving as duty pieces as long as regulations permitted. I am proud to own this piece of history which I will pass on to my son.

Wheelgun28, thanks sir for your interest. My beat and squad worked downtown for the most part. The Lakebottom area, to include the Wynnton area was another sector I worked. I also worked in the out-lying rural areas of Columbus, then known as Beats 18 and 20, which Squad 3 covered. Each squad was composed of 4-5 officers, each officer (1-man squad car) an assigned beat.
In those early years of my life my firearms knowledge was not fully developed and I didn't appreciate the quality of my tapered barrel Model 10 until much later. I still have a representative Model 10-5 from that time period (1971) and to-this-day I still pack a .38 Service Revolver to work (Sheriff's Dept.). It is another NYPD "chosen-few", the Colt Official Police! A blue 4-inch "blast-from-the-past" rides in a NYPD Jaypee Duty Holster, given to me by loving kind parents on Christmas Eve 1971. Re-timed and re-blued "twice" to keep it up and running. I know this is hallowed S&W ground here but I feel some of you may have a soft spot for an old cop "still" packing a six-shooter, even if it is the old Official Police!
Wheelgun, we got those Model 66's in 74. In that time period many agencies were running for the .357 as a duty gun. No nickel 19's were authorized, but a few cops packed personal nickel 19's, Trooper MK III's and two precious Python's. They/we had to qualify with them before we packed em on duty. Things have changed today. No such allowance considered in this time period. My time, and my time "only" has helped me keep that "beloved" Colt in my duty holster. Grand-fathered in and benevolent supervisors assist the old man greatly in this polymer made auto-blaster age sir! Thanks again, and I hope my story hasn't wore the reader out!
David

As an aside, the NYPD Firearms & Tactics Section would not approve a service revolver that had been handed down to the officer. The theory went that that handgun would have had twenty odd years of service life and should be retired for duty use.

Rich

I was NYPD. The model 10 went away in 1988. Some Transit cop had a guy on the wall who was being "less then cooperative", and he cocked the hammer on his model 10. BOOM. Killed the kid. We went to the stainless model 64 and Ruger Service Six right after that. Bobbed hammers so double action only. Six's stayed around for a few years and then we phased them out in favor of the Ruger GP100, which was also bobbed hammer and stamped "GPNY".

Maybe service weapons couldn't be transferred for duty use, but off duty ones sure were. When the 9MM was approved in 1993, lots of guys picked the Glock so they could carry it off and on duty. Snub nose .38's were being sold all over the place. They were authorized for off duty use for the new owners.

You refer to a ledger. Does it list serial numbers of NYPD issued revolvers? I would like to find out who used my Colt Detective Special, 796308, which is supposed to have been carried by an NYPD officer.

Here's a link to the auction with it's picture.
Item:9325295 Colt DETECTIVE SPECIAL For Sale at GunAuction.com

It has seen a lot of use but the action is in perfect time and it shoots exactly where it's pointed.

Because I'm looking at guns that few people would carry now for run-of-the-mill SD, I find myself wondering about mortality statistics from the round nose lead you were probably issued. It's also interesting that civilian LE armed its officers as if the .45 had never been invented, the Moros were never a problem, and the .38 was never considered to be underpowered.

I believe that it was not the .38 Special which failed against the Moros, and that .45 cartridges also failed. See the Jack Lott article in the May 1989 issue of Petersen's Handguns. Then, as now, a shotgun does a little better against some folks.

Model520fan;

I'm very familiar with that 1989 Jack Lott article. I have numerous copies, as I probably can recite that well-written piece about the .38 Long Colt versus the .45 LC against the "highly-charged" Moro Warriors. The artcle debunked a lot of the myths surrounding the "supposed" weak .38 LC not be able to effectively bring down a charging Moro, armed with a razor sharp sword. The .45 LC, though stronger, wasn't an "instant-stopper" either. Great article, for sure!

Brokenprism, in 71 we were issued the 158-gr. LRN .38 for our Model 10 Service Revolver. In that time period I can recall two specific shootings involving our Model 10 stoked with the old .38 Police Load versus bad guys. The two separate officers were successful in bringing a life-threatening situation under control by skillful placement of the old .38 Police Load (158gr. LRN) on the attacking target (enraged drunk & mentally deranged terminator). Those two, well placed rounds, each time, brought down these very bad guys! We must NEVER, EVER, NEVER forget that God's Mighty Hand was at work and HE always had our back! Whether we realized it or not! But the old police round was adequate in these two deadly calls. Would it be so every time? I think not, but there is no denying the advantage that two well-placed rounds gives the good guys over the bad guys!
David

BrokenPrism: My NYPD friend (retired) became disenchanted with the RNL service load after he hit an armed robbery suspect three times and the suspect fled (later arrested in a hospital). He privately switched (against regs) to the .38-44 load which provided extra punch. When NYPD went to the SWC at service velocity, he used the W-W higher velocity version of that load (later labelled +P).
My friend told me there was widespread dislike of the RNL among cops.

I believe the .38 Special was chosen and used for so long because almost anyone can handle the M&P revolver with that round. Not a lot of recoil; great trigger pull; not too heavy; and "most" officers never pulled it from the holster in anger!!

It worked great for almost 100 years.

The .38 special is a wonderfull cartridge when loaded properly. The 158 LRN is notoriously prone to OVERPENETRATION, hence decreased stopping power. It was not nicknamed " The Widowmaker " for nothing. No, most officers forced, as I was to carry it did not like it friend. Many times suspects were struck repeatedly in vital areas only to kill the officer or escape.

While the 158 grain lead round nose round is lethal it lacks the ability to cause rapid incapacitation. Criminals often were able to continue the fight and kill the officer before loosing consciousness or dying. The lead semi wadcutter hollow point has a much better record of incapacitation.


Scott Campbell
Remember wheel guns are real guns too
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Wheel guns are real guns too.

I also was happy when the sheriff stopped issuing 158 grain LRN and issued hollow points.


Scott Campbell
Remember wheel guns are real guns too
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Wheel guns are real guns too.

Sometime in the mid 80's, an NYPD sergeant shot and killed a polar bear who had mauled a kid in the Brooklyn Zoo. One shot from his Model 10 with the 158 grain round nose killed the bear.

What a shame. He supposed to use the all steel revolver as a club & thunk 'em on the head.

I have a repatriated 3" Mod 10 from down unda. It has the medium taper barrel (thicker than the pencil but not as fat as the heavy) in addition to the import marks etc. The dealer was pretty sure it was a Victoria State Police, Australia sidearm when they went to 4". Its a square butt & nice shooter. BTW, Victoria PD Aus. just barely transitioned to M&P's autos from their trusty wheelguns. Last major Aussie agency to do so.

Sir: Another poster, PoliceRevolverCollector, states NYPD issued revolvers had the officer's shield # on the backstrap. I disagreed: officers had to purchase their revolvers, either from the Equipment Bureau or dealers such as Sile and Jovino. Guns were not issued. I was on another job, not PD, and never saw a shield # on a backstrap. Can you confirm, please? Thank you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Kaaskop,
I should have been more clear. The S&W M&Ps that I have seen/owned marked w/ shield numbers low on the backstrap were pre-model 10s.This was done by a dept. armorer at the time the revolver was put into service after being purchased by the officer.

I first posted on this thread back in 3/13 regarding my Dad's [now mine] pre model 10 M&P. It is lettered shipped to a NYC dealer in 1930. My Dad became a cop in December 1941 with that 1930's revolver. It has his patrolman's shield # stamped on the butt.This was his duty revolver from 1941 until he retired in 1978.

In my LE years, late 60's - early 70's, our departmental issue weapon was the Model 10. However, we were allowed to buy our own weapon, Colt or S&W, and carry it as long as it was chambered for the departmental approved ammo. So, I purchased and carried a Model 19. Beautiful thing, nickel plated, Triple T.

We were issued and expected to carry 158 grain RNL "Luballoy" ammo. That is the only ammo approved for duty carry. However, I and most of the other LEs I knew, carried it only for roll call and inspection. Once in our cruisers and out of the parking lot, the "approved" ammo was quickly replaced with something MUCH more potent. In the shooting incidences I was familiar with and involved in, not one word was ever said about ammo.

Bob

My issued revolver saved my bacon more than once in 30 yrs. & I still carry one in retirement. I qualified for LEOSA in June w/my Model 38, the only one shooting a revolver among all those Glock 23's. Empty brass was flying all around me while I reloaded, but I was as accurate (85%) as those shooting their semi autos.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I can confirm officer's shield numbers were stamped either on the butt or backstrap of revolvers. The firearms section not the equipment section did the stamping. This practice was done up to the early 1970's.

Guys nice post , I have a model 10 two inch snubby bought new in 1971 finish is blue, now with Hogue black grips. Couldnt be happier and its a solid keeper for sure. thanx