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07-22-2013, 06:40 PM
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Bowling Pin vs. S&W 29-2
Well, this made my day. I have been working with an FNH FiveseveN pistol recently and I took this bowling pin out to see what my 5.7x28 reloads would do to it. 25 rounds later a few chips out of the plastic and a few small holes.
The Rifleman article was fresh in my mind. I went back in the house, grabbed some ammo and my S&W 6 1/2" 29-2 and went back to my favorite shooting spot.
After a few rounds the bowling pin began to disintegrate. This is the pin after 15 total rounds of hard cast 250 grain, lead soft point jacketed 240 grain and cast 240 grain practice rounds.
The mushroomed cast bullets are in the foreground.
Unbelieveable!
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992B, BCDWYO, BobC357, chipking, dnonac, Doc44, DRYHEAT, Fredo Batali, GM4spd, Gunhacker, J. R. WEEMS, KLYDE, loc n load, lscocoa, m l mosley, MagnumForce44, Malpasowildlifer, pistola, snubbyfan, tops, vipermd |
07-22-2013, 06:48 PM
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Now you know why the 5.7 holds so many rounds. You are going to need them for anything bigger than a gerbil.
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07-22-2013, 06:52 PM
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Aww, if you hadn't softened that pin up with the 5.7, those 44s woulda never made it through!!
Seriously, that's some pretty salty firepower.
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07-22-2013, 06:53 PM
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Wow.... that's shredded.
I worked in a bowling alley when I was just out of high school as a mechanic. I know just how tough those pins are made to survive the rigors of play and cycling through the pinsetter machines, the nylon jacket is robust enough let alone the rock maple wood.
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Last edited by Gunhacker; 07-22-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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07-22-2013, 07:01 PM
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And that would be why I don't own a 5.7. I use my model 65 for gerbils and move up from there. All kidding aside take your 5.7 and a good ole model 10 38 special with 158 SWCs and compare them side by side on a bowling pin. You will probably sell the 5.7 soon afterwards.
Chip King
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07-22-2013, 07:13 PM
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Nice!!
I'll take foot pounds of energy over speed any day
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07-22-2013, 07:18 PM
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That's one awesome way to pick up a split!
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07-22-2013, 07:27 PM
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Speed definitely is part of the equation. The difference between a 300 Weatherby and a 30/30 is speed. Along with velocity, you must have the energy and bullet weight to carry through. That's why 220 Swift is great on prairie dogs but not worth a darn on deer. A well placed shot from the Swift will kill a deer, but what about a quartering shot or a through the shoulders shot or a "Texas Heart Shot". One of my great uncles shot a deer in the neck with a 220 Swift. He thought he missed. The next season, on of my dads cousins killed the same deer. It had a scar bigger than a coffee cup on its neck where the Swift had fragmented on impact and just made a nasty flesh wound. There was very little damage to the underlying muscle tissue and no damage to the spinal cord that was the intended target. Bullets intended for varmints are not suitable for big game.
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07-22-2013, 07:55 PM
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Makes sense to me, I would consider hard wooden bowling pins big game
Moderate speed and large ballistic coefficient, at short to medium range, equals BIG hole in bowling pins!
Last edited by 00Buck2; 07-22-2013 at 08:02 PM.
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07-22-2013, 07:58 PM
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I'm not sure what to think about that. What kind of shape was the pin in before you started with those two guns? I used to shoot pins regularly, and they take quite a bit of punishment before falling apart.
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07-22-2013, 09:29 PM
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The Pin was in perfect new condition (other than being used in a bowling alley) when I started. 25 rounds of 5.7x28 didn't do much of anything. The .44 Magnum punched through the Pin in short order.
I have shot Bowling Pins before, but have not witnessed such destruction.
Bowling Pin matches are usually shot with .45 ACP, .38 Super etc. The Pins last a long time.
I would be interested in others results.
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07-22-2013, 09:45 PM
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Bowling pins sure have a rough life.
Talk about bad to worse.
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07-22-2013, 09:59 PM
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If you used a 500 Magnum it would like look like that after the first shot!
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Last edited by STCM(SW); 07-23-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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07-22-2013, 10:20 PM
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use the 500 magnum on the table the pins are on, flip the table over and the pins all fall off.
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07-22-2013, 11:05 PM
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I have shot a lot of pins never seen one with a hole in the middle like that. Usually they just splinter inside the case then the bottom gives way and pieces start falling out of the bottom until there just a shell of plastic. But anything is possible!
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07-22-2013, 11:26 PM
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Pin Shoots
Back in the 80's I competed regularly in bowling pin shoots. I was carrying a M-29 4 " as a duty weapon, so I opted to use it instead of my 1911. I shot 240 gr lead SWC's over a max load of Unique. If I hit the pin centered, it would literally be blown off the table and would be splintered, split and misshapened. It was very interesting to see the difference in the amount of energy delivered from that 44 load compared to 45 acp loads. If I shot the same pin more than once with the 44, it was usually damaged badly enough that it could not be used any more. I busted up so many of their pins, that the match sponsors asked me to stop using the magnum and use a 45 acp like everybody else.
Last edited by loc n load; 07-22-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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07-22-2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STCM(SW)
If you used a 500 Magnum it would like that after the first shot!
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The matches I used to shoot, .45acp and .44s were common, but I think the .44 shooters were generally shooting .44 special or otherwise light reloads. I missed it, but was told someone used a .500 s&w magnum on a pin after the match once, and it punched a big hole through the pin in one shot.
I shot one with a .30-30 once, higher up, and it punched a nice hole through the neck.
9mm - .45acp generally either bounce off or don't penetrate very far into them.
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07-22-2013, 11:53 PM
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That IS impressive
I've seen pins take a lot of punishment and still look like maybe a beaver chewed on it some. I don't think my .38 had any effect on it at all, bullets just bounce off. The pin just laughed at me. I found it very unsatisfying until I brought along some water bottles.
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07-23-2013, 12:01 AM
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There is no doubting that a 300 Winchester Magnum rifle is far more powerful than a 44. However, this is what a 190 grain Sierra Match King at 3050 fps did to a golf ball.
My 45 ACP will knock a golf balk to pieces.
I've shot a lot of pins with a lot of guns. 22s bounce off them. Most non-magnum handguns do the same but will start to break up the wood inside them. Small diameter rifle rounds will put small holes in them. Depending on the type of bullet, some will not pass through the pin. 7mm diameter and larger rifles tend to do more damage. My 300 WM tends to push big fat splinters out the back. 50 BMG will remove chunks and really send a pin dancing but the damage isn't as bad as you would think.
45-70 and other fat non-pointy slugs will destroy pins. The fat frontal area does really bad things. High speed wadcutters and similar shapes punch caliber size holes through the rubber skin. The missing chunks of skin will allow the wood to blow out.
High speed 230 gr FMJ stuffed in my 454 will not do the same damage to pins as a flat wide nose bullet. I should know. I've tried it.
I will tell you that the internal splintering caused by the 5.7 is what allowed the 44 to have such a dramatic effect so quickly. A solid flat nose 44 will certainly eat pins but the damage takes a bit longer if the pin has not been previously shot up.
It's a ton of fun to launch 335 gr WLFN bullets at pins using heavy Colt and 454 loads. The big flat area makes near caliber size holes in the front of the pins and really sends them flying.
We used to hang the pins by wires around their necks. The high speed rifles would make them dance but the heavy Colt loads out of my 94 Trapper broke more wires holding the pins. Broke, not cut. The flat bullets slap hard while the pointy bullets zip right through without as much trauma.
Last edited by feets; 07-23-2013 at 12:21 AM.
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07-23-2013, 05:01 PM
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Yesterday, I posted a picture of a bowling pin that I shot with my FNH FiveseveN and my S&W 29-2 6 1/2 inch. There seemed to be some doubt that only 15 rounds out of a 44 Magnum could do so much damage.
Today, I decided to sacrifice another one of my bowling pins. I used Lyman 429421 250 grain hard cast bullets in front of 20.0 grains of Alliant 2400. This is my favorite and most accurate load. I proceeded to shoot the Pin. After each shot I checked the damage. After the 5th shot, the plastic came off of the back of the Pin. I shot another 7 rounds for a total of 12. All the wood in the center is gone. Yesterday there was more damage because I wasn't trying to place my shots as well.
The pictures show damage caused in the middle of the Pin by the 44 Magnum Only.
I then tried some head shots with the FiveseveN and actually caused a little damage to the top of the Pin. However, I'm not thrilled with the accuracy.
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07-23-2013, 05:49 PM
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Neat post.
I used to shoot the Second Chance Bowling pin matches in the late 70s and early 80s with my 29-2 6 1/2 duty gun using my handloads of 240 gr cast SWC over 7.5 grs of Unique and had no problem knocking them down.
Your gun looks like it is brand new. Cool.
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07-23-2013, 06:16 PM
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I used to own a 5.7. When they first started coming i managed to get a hold of a fee boxes of real 5.7 black tips and red. These arnt your topical civilian pills. Made police vests and helmets look like swiss cheese. Went through both sides of the vest at 25ft!!! Might not have umpf to knock holes in bowling pins but if you wanted to put holes at someone wearing armor this would do it
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
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07-23-2013, 07:26 PM
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I have had similar experience. Shot a pin match with a CZ52 once using FMJ ammo. Bullet actually went through the pin and didn't knock it over. My favorite pin match gun is a 6 1/2" Model 610 using 180 gn. Montana Gold flat nose bullet over a max load of Longshot. Crono's right at 1350 FPM. Pins do a double back flip off the table. 44 Mag.
300 gn. flat nose, hard cast in a Super Blackhawk do very well too but reloading is slow. Shooting pins is fun!
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07-23-2013, 07:30 PM
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I used to love shooting pins with my 25-2 and 250 grain SWC's. It did well. One guy used to hit the pins with a .357 and the pins seemed to explode, with pieces coming back toward us.
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07-23-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STCM(SW)
If you used a 500 Magnum it would like that after the first shot!
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I was thinking the same but 44 Magnum hell of a weapon too
thewelshm
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07-23-2013, 08:08 PM
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We took a bunch of pins to the machine gun shoots in Waco. During one reset I used one pin as a club to caveman another pin into the ground upside down. That was not worth the effort. The pin didn't even shake when shot. It just developed holes.
We were able to cut one in half across the fat end using 308 but the 223 didn't want to do the trick. There was not enough trauma to the cover. The plastic held together on one side and the hanging bottom of the pin caused it to swing too erratically for 200 yard shots on a very windy day. It also made shots with fat handgun calibers tough. Those slow moving fatties get tossed around a bit with quartering winds of 20+ mph.
Many pins died this day:
Last edited by feets; 07-23-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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07-23-2013, 11:08 PM
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I built a box about 7-8 years ago to test rounds.
10 boards 3/4" 1" apart.
.45 ACP went through 5, .357 exploded in the 5th, .44 Mag 240 gr KSWC went through 6.
Then I tried the 500 Magnum.
Went through all 10 boards, picked up the box an smashed it into the tree behind the table and went 6" into the tree, destroyed the box.
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07-24-2013, 12:29 AM
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You should put down the X frame and try that round in an Encore pistol. The increase in velocity is disturbing.
I had a 15" 460 S&W Encore. The Hornady 200 gr rounds advertised at 2200 fps from an 8" X frame averaged 2697 fps in my pistol. Just for grins, I loaded a ladder of 230 FMJ in it. I worked them up to 2500 fps without difficulty.
I didn't push the heavier bullets too hard. Even with the muzzle brake the recoil was too punishing. Some moderate loads had 335 WFLN running 2100 fps. The brave (and foolish) could push them much harder. I've had enough of that.
I've neither owned nor fired a 500 in an Encore. After my experience with the 460 I really don't have the desire. The rounds will no doubt be slower but the recoil is a bit excessive. In that arena you don't hold the gun solid. Instead, you have to let it run and keep it in a general area. If not, it'll prove it's more of a man than you.
Don't shoot it from a rest either. It kills your wrists. Stand on your hind legs, hold it up, and let your body take the recoil.
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07-24-2013, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feets
You should put down the X frame and try that round in an Encore pistol. The increase in velocity is disturbing.
I had a 15" 460 S&W Encore. The Hornady 200 gr rounds advertised at 2200 fps from an 8" X frame averaged 2697 fps in my pistol. Just for grins, I loaded a ladder of 230 FMJ in it. I worked them up to 2500 fps without difficulty.
I didn't push the heavier bullets too hard. Even with the muzzle brake the recoil was too punishing. Some moderate loads had 335 WFLN running 2100 fps. The brave (and foolish) could push them much harder. I've had enough of that.
I've neither owned nor fired a 500 in an Encore. After my experience with the 460 I really don't have the desire. The rounds will no doubt be slower but the recoil is a bit excessive. In that arena you don't hold the gun solid. Instead, you have to let it run and keep it in a general area. If not, it'll prove it's more of a man than you.
Don't shoot it from a rest either. It kills your wrists. Stand on your hind legs, hold it up, and let your body take the recoil.
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cmon you got to try actually the 500 is a sweet thing to fire.
thewelshm
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07-24-2013, 12:39 AM
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As a timed match, I always thought mild recoil with lots of mass, such as the 44 special was ideal. As for the 5.7, there seemed to be little information on its lethality until Major Hassan went on his Allah/AQ inspired rampage at Ft. Hood. There must be a great difference between bowling pins and the human body. Hopefully the trial will move more quickly and give the major the death penalty.
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07-24-2013, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEWELSHM
cmon you got to try actually the 500 is a sweet thing to fire.
thewelshm
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I've fired it in an X frame. It's a bit lively but not excessive. My 454 Super Redhawk with commercial loads is harder on the shooter.
However, the Encore does NOT behave like a revolver. There is no cylinder gap to vent pressure. Every bit of it goes straight out the barrel causing the gun to come straight back at you with everything it's got.
The Hornady 200 gr factory loads in my 460 damaged my wrists badly enough that I had to stop shooting completely for several months. I put less than 20 rounds through it in a year.
After the muzzle brake was cut into the barrel things changed and the gun was manageable.
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07-24-2013, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feets
I've fired it in an X frame. It's a bit lively but not excessive. My 454 Super Redhawk with commercial loads is harder on the shooter.
However, the Encore does NOT behave like a revolver. There is no cylinder gap to vent pressure. Every bit of it goes straight out the barrel causing the gun to come straight back at you with everything it's got.
The Hornady 200 gr factory loads in my 460 damaged my wrists badly enough that I had to stop shooting completely for several months. I put less than 20 rounds through it in a year.
After the muzzle brake was cut into the barrel things changed and the gun was manageable.
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love the 44 round 460 is cool too.But I know what your saying
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07-24-2013, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njl
I'm not sure what to think about that. What kind of shape was the pin in before you started with those two guns? I used to shoot pins regularly, and they take quite a bit of punishment before falling apart.
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Me too. We ( my buddy and I ) have a bowling pin connection.
A friend, who works at a bowling alley gets us boxes full of old bowling pins when they are replaced with newer ones.
Start with a virgin pin and then see how many rounds it takes
to get to the condition you showed. We have shot pins with
all sorts of stuff (rifles, pistols) and they are resilient.
Chuck
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07-24-2013, 02:58 AM
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I like it!
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SWCA #2442
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